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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

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TIWIT

TIWIT

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

No point in rushing a decision fella. Getting the right decision is essential 

Whatever decision is reached is still going to be seen as wrong by many. It's not as if some compromise can be achieved.


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Robin Evans

Robin Evans

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Whatever decision is reached is still going to be seen as wrong by many. It's not as if some compromise can be achieved.

I'm not in possession of all the info to make an informed decision. Same applies i would have thought to almost everyone else on this forum. So we've all engaged our opinions full tilt based on the bits we know or can reasonably (or in some cases unreasonably) deduce.

Argyle will have made folks a bit twitchy regards current considerations.

Some patience is required owd lad.

Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, RobertAM said:

Think you are missing my point and are you entirely sure the heartlands would welcome Toulouse? and crowd into Old Trafford and Wembley in record numbers  if either of those two cups are contested by Toulouse and Catalans. I wonder about the size of the bond Elstone would demand for that!! UK is leaving the EU..you don't see Canada bailing on the commonwealth.

Robert the RFL changed the Championship play off final last season from a neutral ground for fear that it would be contested by TWP and TOULOUSE, they were afraid that the Wembley final would be repeated by being so sparsly attended.

Some people will back these clubs all day long as long as they don't have to put their hands in their pockets, want an example? when Leigh played Catalan in the MPG these pages were awash with "It will be a travesty if Catalan go down" and "If they lose they should not be relegated" well the numbers of well wishers who turned up to support and cheer them on were as rare as rocking horse droppings with the exception of two Wiggin lads I saw who wore black berets, eye liner pencil moustaches and a string of onions around their necks over their Wiggin shirts.

Just saying.

Les Tonks Sidestep

Les Tonks Sidestep

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Robert the RFL changed the Championship play off final last season from a neutral ground for fear that it would be contested by TWP and TOULOUSE, they were afraid that the Wembley final would be repeated by being so sparsly attended.

Some people will back these clubs all day long as long as they don't have to put their hands in their pockets, want an example? when Leigh played Catalan in the MPG these pages were awash with "It will be a travesty if Catalan go down" and "If they lose they should not be relegated" well the numbers of well wishers who turned up to support and cheer them on were as rare as rocking horse droppings with the exception of two Wiggin lads I saw who wore black berets, eye liner pencil moustaches and a string of onions around their necks over their Wiggin shirts.

Just saying.

No they didn't. It wasn't neutral in 2018 either when it was odds on TWP would get there too. The rules were there for all to see all the way through the season and the fact that most of the moaners didn't look until a few weeks before it was to take place doesn't make it so. In fact none of the 'MPGs' have been played at a neutral ground.......

Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Toulouse has never threatened the status quo like Toronto. did/still is.

Or created threads 320+ pages long.

TWP generates interest, and thats what the game needs.

TWP creates a lot of backslapping of those desperate to keep them in, and conversely derision from those who wish to see the back of them.

Interest can work in many different ways.

Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

No they didn't. It wasn't neutral in 2018 either when it was odds on TWP would get there too. The rules were there for all to see all the way through the season and the fact that most of the moaners didn't look until a few weeks before it was to take place doesn't make it so. In fact none of the 'MPGs' have been played at a neutral ground.......

You've answered your own question Les, 2015 to 2018 were MPG's a different competition which from the outset stated that the MPG would be played at the home of the 4th placed team after the conclusion of the round robin league format.

Last season it was a play off system to decide the Champion club which carried with it promotion, and this was played at a neutral venue prior to 2015, the same as SL play their Champions decider at Old Trafford.

That is why I have put the confused emoji on your post.

bobbruce

bobbruce

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

TWP creates a lot of backslapping of those desperate to keep them in, and conversely derision from those who wish to see the back of them.

Interest can work in many different ways.

Why would any RL fan want to see the back of a RL club. 

Robin Evans

Robin Evans

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Why would any RL fan want to see the back of a RL club. 

I suggest you check out the rugby league banter page and the I love rugby league pages on Facebook for a myriad of spleen venting  profane reasons why twp going ti ts up is a good thing.

There are some poster putting up reasoned arguments against twp occasionally,  but its not the norm.

Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

I think that you are right but, more fundamentally, what is he after? He has no background nor interest in RL and clearly sees this as a break-even marketing vehicle for his grooming products businesses. From what little that I have read if he was coming forward with a new proposition for a club out of the blue he would be rejected out of hand. The short but interesting history of TWP is in danger of slanting the discussion away from the truly pragmatic. If the sport isn't in need of some brutal pragmatism at present then I don't know when it will be.

I know nowt of him, so don't know. Wasn't he involved early on? Maybe he is a well off bloke who has fallen in love with the sport? 

Blind side johnny

Blind side johnny

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

I don't think it is looking that good so the Naysayers will be happy...its a big decision and I'm not sure Elstone is the man to make it but he is there now and we need some 'cohesion'.  the whole thing has the drama and twists of some long running soap.  Lets face it, the game currently is facing bigger challenges than Toronto.  Why turn down any positive news in such times...YUP! turn down a legit investor in a time of economic crisis for the game....hard to fathom but true.

Just make a decision will ya Elstone!

Would you vouch for the legitimacy of the investor KM?

I would really love TWP to continue to be a part of SL but have severe doubts about the people who are currently heading up the bid. Historically this is probably one of the worst times ever to be making bold decisions I'm afraid to say, so expect conservatism to hold the line.

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

Manx RL

Manx RL

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Robert the RFL changed the Championship play off final last season from a neutral ground for fear that it would be contested by TWP and TOULOUSE, they were afraid that the Wembley final would be repeated by being so sparsly attended.

Some people will back these clubs all day long as long as they don't have to put their hands in their pockets, want an example? when Leigh played Catalan in the MPG these pages were awash with "It will be a travesty if Catalan go down" and "If they lose they should not be relegated" well the numbers of well wishers who turned up to support and cheer them on were as rare as rocking horse droppings with the exception of two Wiggin lads I saw who wore black berets, eye liner pencil moustaches and a string of onions around their necks over their Wiggin shirts.

Just saying.

Fairfax and Carstairs finally made it back to blighty!

- Adepto Successu Per Tributum Fuga -

Oldbear

Oldbear

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

I would really love TWP to continue to be a part of SL but have severe doubts about the people who are currently heading up the bid. Historically this is probably one of the worst times ever to be making bold decisions I'm afraid to say, so expect conservatism to hold the line.

In the light of the recent debacle, plus Mr Argyles approach to how he treats suppliers I think it’s only reasonable to ask questions of the new prospective owners. I also would like TWP to be back in SL but I want it to be a well run outfit with no more scandals waiting to happen, I just don’t know if this new owner is the right guy or not, sure he’s rich, but does that mean he is truly committed to the club, will deal fairly with suppliers and is in it for the long haul. All of these will be considered by Elstone before a decision can be made so perhaps it’s best that more time is being taken to assess this proposal.

TIWIT

TIWIT

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, snapski said:

https://www.totalrl.com/elstone-explains-toronto-apprehension/

I concede that Elstone did indeed say that so you are correct.

However, you made a bold statement citing no sources or attribution and that is what I challenged.

Be prepared to back up what you state as fact or make it clear it's just your opinion or speculation.

Okay with that?

Kayakman

Kayakman

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

Would you vouch for the legitimacy of the investor KM?

I would really love TWP to continue to be a part of SL but have severe doubts about the people who are currently heading up the bid. Historically this is probably one of the worst times ever to be making bold decisions I'm afraid to say, so expect conservatism to hold the line.

No I don't know him Blindsider so I can't vouch for him.  I agree with your thinking so I think you might just be right....they just need to make a decision at some point in time!  I guess I'm just impatient is all.

Jayme2020

Jayme2020

Posted
Posted

I do agree there are issue with the WP but there are far bigger issue with RFL and SL they need to sort out those issues soon are they could be looking at a league that might not last 10 years.

PhilCarrington

PhilCarrington

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, TIWIT said:

I think people here find the very name 'Super League' kind of pretentious. Really, what's so super about it? Premier or National League or even International League seem more fitting.

That's the sort of post I'd expect from someone trying to get upto a hundred to access one of the other forums, but that can't be the case with you. Given the number of other sports that have adoped the name Super League since 1995, I'd say it was a pretty good pick.

It wouldn't have been sensible to call it National League when it started off as a European comp. Even dafter for you to suggest it now that there are clubs in Wales, France, Canada (TBC), applications from USA and expressions of interest from Serbia. Having clubs from Wales and France was why the National League became the Championship.

Premier League is rather booked out by another sport in England.

Or maybe you are now mirroing Groucho Marx in his view on clubs?

TIWIT

TIWIT

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, PhilCarrington said:

That's the sort of post I'd expect from someone trying to get upto a hundred to access one of the other forums, but that can't be the case with you. Given the number of other sports that have adoped the name Super League since 1995, I'd say it was a pretty good pick.

It wouldn't have been sensible to call it National League when it started off as a European comp. Even dafter for you to suggest it now that there are clubs in Wales, France, Canada (TBC), applications from USA and expressions of interest from Serbia. Having clubs from Wales and France was why the National League became the Championship.

Premier League is rather booked out by another sport in England.

Or maybe you are now mirroing Groucho Marx in his view on clubs?

Super to me is the ultimate superlative. The best of the best.

Super League is the best Rugby Football League in the Northern Hemisphere. That really isn't saying much. It's like WWE's 'superstars', all pretentious hyperbole.

And I have quoted Groucho in this very thread, so I know exactly what you are referring to.

Quolls2020

Quolls2020

Posted
Posted

 

Snapski 

Posted Saturday at 03:00 

The bid to rejoin and financial forecast fell well short.

 

On 26/09/2020 at 03:17, TIWIT said:

You were there were you? Give us all a detailed report then please.

If not then either give us a source or refrain from making such silly unsubstantiated statements.

 

Snapski replied:

It was said on TV at the time I posted. Can’t remember who said it. I wouldnt have posted if I hadn’t heard it. Back in your box.

 

 4 hours ago, TIWIT said:

No one else has offered such a detailed tale as yours. Without better sources it's all so much hearsay.

 

Snapski replied:

https://www.totalrl.com/elstone-explains-toronto-apprehension/

 

2 hours ago, snapski said:

https://www.totalrl.com/elstone-explains-toronto-apprehension/

TIWIT replied:

I concede that Elstone did indeed say that so you are correct.

However, you made a bold statement citing no sources or attribution and that is what I challenged.

Be prepared to back up what you state as fact or make it clear it's just your opinion or speculation.

Okay with that?

 

Not wishing to jump to anyone’s defence, again.

 

But: what snapski posted was not silly (it was correct), was not opinion (it was correct) or unsubstantiated as a couple of previous posts alluded to the same thing and several online press reports  stated that in the opinion of SL CEO the presentation/proposal/business plan was disappointing. Nor was it bold...it was accurate.

However your description of snapski’s statements were incorrect and opinion presented as fact without any substantive evidence or reference. Your admission of “concession” seems to me to be a bit like...yes I was wrong, and you were right, but you were wrong because I was wrong” in my opinion.

 

Arguing with great authority from a place of complete ignorance is no argument at all.....but that’s just my opinion......

You ok with that?

 

TIWIT

TIWIT

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Quolls2020 said:

 

Snapski 

Posted Saturday at 03:00 

The bid to rejoin and financial forecast fell well short.

 

On 26/09/2020 at 03:17, TIWIT said:

You were there were you? Give us all a detailed report then please.

If not then either give us a source or refrain from making such silly unsubstantiated statements.

 

Snapski replied:

It was said on TV at the time I posted. Can’t remember who said it. I wouldnt have posted if I hadn’t heard it. Back in your box.

 

 4 hours ago, TIWIT said:

No one else has offered such a detailed tale as yours. Without better sources it's all so much hearsay.

 

Snapski replied:

https://www.totalrl.com/elstone-explains-toronto-apprehension/

 

2 hours ago, snapski said:

https://www.totalrl.com/elstone-explains-toronto-apprehension/

TIWIT replied:

I concede that Elstone did indeed say that so you are correct.

However, you made a bold statement citing no sources or attribution and that is what I challenged.

Be prepared to back up what you state as fact or make it clear it's just your opinion or speculation.

Okay with that?

 

Not wishing to jump to anyone’s defence, again.

 

But: what snapski posted was not silly (it was correct), was not opinion (it was correct) or unsubstantiated as a couple of previous posts alluded to the same thing and several online press reports  stated that in the opinion of SL CEO the presentation/proposal/business plan was disappointing. Nor was it bold...it was accurate.

However your description of snapski’s statements were incorrect and opinion presented as fact without any substantive evidence or reference. Your admission of “concession” seems to me to be a bit like...yes I was wrong, and you were right, but you were wrong because I was wrong” in my opinion.

 

Arguing with great authority from a place of complete ignorance is no argument at all.....but that’s just my opinion......

You ok with that?

 

Please do me a favour and put me on Ignore.

Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, bobbruce said:

Why would any RL fan want to see the back of a RL club. 

There just maybe enough SL Chairmen and also the CEO who may prefer that TWP's absence is more beneficial to the sport over here, I would suggest BOB those guy's who put their hard earned into the sport are as much a fan of the game than anyone else.

Now then Mr LiVolsi is charged with coming up with reasons of why Canada is a suitable fit for SL, I am one who needs to be convinced that it is suitable and also any other club playing out of Canada or indeed the USA in any division in the RFL,  not that my opinion will sway any decision but we are all allowed our own opinions, aren't we?

Robin Evans

Robin Evans

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There just maybe enough SL Chairmen and also the CEO who may prefer that TWP's absence is more beneficial to the sport over here, I would suggest BOB those guy's who put their hard earned into the sport are as much a fan of the game than anyone else.

Now then Mr LiVolsi is charged with coming up with reasons of why Canada is a suitable fit for SL, I am one who needs to be convinced that it is suitable and also any other club playing out of Canada or indeed the USA in any division in the RFL,  not that my opinion will sway any decision but we are all allowed our own opinions, aren't we?

Pretty much H.

We have all taken part in the argument of what is best for the sport. We all have our hopes, considerations and opinions based on only released snippets of info.

The onus it appears is now on Livolsi to step up and convince SL he is serious and has the wad. 

As yet, I remain unconvinced that the logistics make it feasible. I haven't a clue about how sound the numbers are, but given the past administration/ownership of that club, caution is understandable.

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