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4 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Looks like the summer's here - ice cream man's round...

He doesn't have a week off all year round, on my estate

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6 hours ago, Johnoco said:

Not at all. It was only the other night while eating a curry that my Mrs said ‘this is hot’ that I realised I was barely registering any heat. I wasn’t a total spice wuss before but might struggle with a vindaloo for example. It will probably be temporary 

My son had several of the symptoms of Covid 19 a few weeks back. Complete loss of sense of taste and smell being one of them. His girlfriend thought it would be a great test if he ate a teaspoon of Colman's English Mustard in one go. It never touched him.

In his case it was definitely temporary and his sense of taste and smell returned to normal fairly quickly.

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Old Faithful we never lose at Wembley

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I have just watched a fascinating interview on the BBC with a Prof from the London School of Tropical Medicine who has headed up a team in Italy which has been testing the population of the village where the first death from Covid took place (and they believe the first case arrived in Italy in early January). The team tested 71% of the population with swab tests as the virus was progressing through the village followed up with antibody testing.  Their results are showing that those who were asymptomatic or had mild symptoms did not produce antibodies (as there was no tissue injury) but those with the serious form of the disease did.  They are of the belief (I can't remember how sure of that belief they are) that there is a percentage of the population which has a natural immunity to the disease (the asymptomatics and those with mild symptoms) and they are exploring whether there is a genetic factor at play.  They do not yet know whether this apparent natural immunity would stop people from becoming infected a second time (I doubt any country wants to explore that possibility).

Did anyone else see the interview?  My language is not exactly scientific but hopefully I communicated the gist of it. 

Edited by Saintslass
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7 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I have just watched a fascinating interview on the BBC with a Prof from the London School of Tropical Medicine who has headed up a team in Italy which has been testing the population of the village where the first death from Covid took place (and they believe the first case arrived in Italy in early January). The team tested 71% of the population with swab tests as the virus was progressing through the village followed up with antibody testing.  Their results are showing that those who were asymptomatic or had mild symptoms did not produce antibodies (as there was no tissue injury) but those with the serious form of the disease did.  They are of the belief (I can't remember how sure of that belief they are) that there is a percentage of the population which has a natural immunity to the disease (the asymptomatics and those with mild symptoms) and they are exploring whether there is a genetic factor at play.  They do not yet know whether this apparent natural immunity would stop people from becoming infected a second time (I doubt any country wants to explore that possibility).

Did anyone else see the interview?  My language is not exactly scientific but hopefully I communicated the gist of it. 

Thank you. That is interesting and well communicated. It goes together with kids not suffering from excessive immune response and not seeming to spread it as much as we would assume.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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9 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I have just watched a fascinating interview on the BBC with a Prof from the London School of Tropical Medicine who has headed up a team in Italy which has been testing the population of the village where the first death from Covid took place (and they believe the first case arrived in Italy in early January). The team tested 71% of the population with swab tests as the virus was progressing through the village followed up with antibody testing.  Their results are showing that those who were asymptomatic or had mild symptoms did not produce antibodies (as there was no tissue injury) but those with the serious form of the disease did.  They are of the belief (I can't remember how sure of that belief they are) that there is a percentage of the population which has a natural immunity to the disease (the asymptomatics and those with mild symptoms) and they are exploring whether there is a genetic factor at play.  They do not yet know whether this apparent natural immunity would stop people from becoming infected a second time (I doubt any country wants to explore that possibility).

Did anyone else see the interview?  My language is not exactly scientific but hopefully I communicated the gist of it. 

That sounds really interesting. There has to be something like that at play because of the vast differences in how people are affected. Seemingly very similar people, on paper at least, are affected very differently and there are real differences in fatality rates due to age, gender or race. I know I have seen that the initial viral load may play a part but with the sheer numbers there has to be far more to it than that. I'm sure that science will find the answer, sooner rather than later

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14 minutes ago, Damien said:

That sounds really interesting. There has to be something like that at play because of the vast differences in how people are affected. Seemingly very similar people, on paper at least, are affected very differently and there are real differences in fatality rates due to age, gender or race. I know I have seen that the initial viral load may play a part but with the sheer numbers there has to be far more to it than that. I'm sure that science will find the answer, sooner rather than later

I was totally absorbed in what the Prof was saying.  I just wish I could remember more of it!  

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I heard an interesting radio prog on r4 about 1:30 today, "inside health?" lots on interesting info about new approaches to treatments and also new complications re kidney damage and sticky blood in covid-19 patients clogging dialysis machines. 

As an extra for those following the saga of the mate who works for railways and was ordered to do a test 2 weeks ago, this is latest from their facebook

 

"I rang to chase my test results again. They said they had already escalated it and there was nothing more they could do. They can't even see records to see if I have had the test. Tests that are sent to the US are taking ten days. If I haven't had any results after 14 days, I can have a retest - but obviously it means I don't know whether I had it two weeks ago. I have no idea what else to do, this is turning out to be a massive waste of time."

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3 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

I heard an interesting radio prog on r4 about 1:30 today, "inside health?" lots on interesting info about new approaches to treatments and also new complications re kidney damage and sticky blood in covid-19 patients clogging dialysis machines. 

As an extra for those following the saga of the mate who works for railways and was ordered to do a test 2 weeks ago, this is latest from their facebook

 

"I rang to chase my test results again. They said they had already escalated it and there was nothing more they could do. They can't even see records to see if I have had the test. Tests that are sent to the US are taking ten days. If I haven't had any results after 14 days, I can have a retest - but obviously it means I don't know whether I had it two weeks ago. I have no idea what else to do, this is turning out to be a massive waste of time."

On the Hospital programme (from the Royal Free) that I watched earlier in the week, they highlighted another complication with the larynx.  The nurse who had to be put on a ventilator then had to go for emergency surgery as they could not extract the tube from her throat when they came to extubate her.  From that they learned to use a smaller tube when intubating.

It sounds like you were unfortunate in the timing of your test; it was when they had the technical hitch at two of the labs.  The govt said that is now fixed.  I was fortunate.  My result came back two days later (negative - phew!).  I hope it turns up soon.  

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50 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

On the Hospital programme (from the Royal Free) that I watched earlier in the week, they highlighted another complication with the larynx.  The nurse who had to be put on a ventilator then had to go for emergency surgery as they could not extract the tube from her throat when they came to extubate her.  From that they learned to use a smaller tube when intubating.

It sounds like you were unfortunate in the timing of your test; it was when they had the technical hitch at two of the labs.  The govt said that is now fixed.  I was fortunate.  My result came back two days later (negative - phew!).  I hope it turns up soon.  

Not my test, a mate who works for one of the rail companies (In Signalling design so not really a key worker) and was ordered to do a test driving 70 miles round trip to do so on the day which helped hit the 100k tests But their result is now totally lost after being sent to US

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Apparently the Swiss firm Roche has developed an anti body test that Porton Down has confirmed is 100% reliable.  The NHS is negotiating to buy millions of them.  The Daily Telegraph is reporting this (but it's behind a paywall and so I can't establish any further details).

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2 hours ago, Saintslass said:

I was totally absorbed in what the Prof was saying.  I just wish I could remember more of it!  

What I'd also like to understand is how if at all treatment may have or not changed. That is have Health Services in treating more and more cases  been able to improve outcomes by adopting improvements in approach.

I've not seen any discussions around this.  Hoping that recovery numbers are improving.

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7 hours ago, Saintslass said:

Apparently the Swiss firm Roche has developed an anti body test that Porton Down has confirmed is 100% reliable.  The NHS is negotiating to buy millions of them.  The Daily Telegraph is reporting this (but it's behind a paywall and so I can't establish any further details).

Ah! Lovely

https://www.roche.com/media/releases/med-cor-2020-05-03.htm

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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8 hours ago, redjonn said:

What I'd also like to understand is how if at all treatment may have or not changed. That is have Health Services in treating more and more cases  been able to improve outcomes by adopting improvements in approach.

I've not seen any discussions around this.  Hoping that recovery numbers are improving.

You should submit a question for the press conference!  I agree that it would be interesting to have an update on this.

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1 hour ago, Bob8 said:

I think the only problem with this now is that if the study in Italy I referred to earlier is correct, an anti body test won't pick up everyone who has actually had the disease; only those who were symptomatic.  So will it really help?

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12 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I think the only problem with this now is that if the study in Italy I referred to earlier is correct, an anti body test won't pick up everyone who has actually had the disease; only those who were symptomatic.  So will it really help?

Isn't that the point? We need to identify people who have antibodies and are likely to have some immunity to the virus.

If someone has had a mild dose of the disease or was asymptomatic and doesn't have any antibodies, they are effectively irrelevant and are just part of the susceptible group.

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37 minutes ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Isn't that the point? We need to identify people who have antibodies and are likely to have some immunity to the virus.

If someone has had a mild dose of the disease or was asymptomatic and doesn't have any antibodies, they are effectively irrelevant and are just part of the susceptible group.

Yup, a laymans guess is that you need antibodies to be immune?  So the test will work for all?

If the Italian study is true, we won't ever get 'herd immunity' without a vaccine?


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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57 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I think the only problem with this now is that if the study in Italy I referred to earlier is correct, an anti body test won't pick up everyone who has actually had the disease; only those who were symptomatic.  So will it really help?

That is broadly correct, as far as I understand.

The 100% is for as aspect of the assay also, it cannot be 100%. We do not really understand how the immue system works to any great extend.

 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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2 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Yup, a laymans guess is that you need antibodies to be immune?  So the test will work for all?

If the Italian study is true, we won't ever get 'herd immunity' without a vaccine?

You need the antibodies to have a non-inate immune response.

Kids seem to avoid it because the virus does not access them. That is immunity, but not mediated by the immune system. It still counts to herd immunity.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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30 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

You need the antibodies to have a non-inate immune response.

Kids seem to avoid it because the virus does not access them. That is immunity, but not mediated by the immune system. It still counts to herd immunity.

Any studies for that? My understanding was we didn't really know how the virus behaved in/among kids (PIMS-TS?). The DoE health advisor yesterday certainly suggested that we didn't.

Edited by Les Tonks Sidestep

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36 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Any studies for that? My understanding was we didn't really know how the virus behaved in/among kids (PIMS-TS?). The DoE health advisor yesterday certainly suggested that we didn't.

I know nothing.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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44 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I know nothing.

I thought there might be some info out there that you were more likely to have seen. I guess schools reopening in Europe could be viewed as an empirical test?

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1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Any studies for that? My understanding was we didn't really know how the virus behaved in/among kids (PIMS-TS?). The DoE health advisor yesterday certainly suggested that we didn't.

Trying to cut through the waffle on this is quite tough for a layman like me but, from what I've been trying to follow this morning, it seems that one of the reasons we don't know is *because* schools were shut down and so were most other child-filled places just at the time when we might be collecting data. So there's a big old gap caused by a lack of opportunity to study?

The assumption - again please do correct me - is that covid-19 would be a very odd disease in its category if it wasn't transferable from children to adults. So there are genuine issues there. However, the issue around danger to children would seem to be from complications arising from covid (I guess health conditions they may not know they have?) rather than the condition itself?


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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