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Tommygilf

Have you seen the England Squad?

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12 hours ago, Pulga said:

The next few years could be very interesting for England. I could see them dropping below Tonga, Fiji and PNG. 

I would agree if the Australian fossil had been retained, but now he is history along with his completion rate rugby and hopefully his fellow countrymen.

Let the Resurgence begin.

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1 hour ago, MrPosh said:

Exactly. Austin is obviously not good enough and Hastings would be borderline - but behind enough players for it not to be a surprise. 

Absolute rubbish that Jackson Hastings is behind enough half backs not to warrant a place in the squad 

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2 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Your whole point starts with a false premise. He is not refusing to select them, he is just not selecting them.

He has not come out and said it, as he knows that it would be illegal to discriminate in that way. But it is clear as day to everyone that is what he is doing. 

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6 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

He has not come out and said it, as he knows that it would be illegal to discriminate in that way. But it is clear as day to everyone that is what he is doing. 

I cant believe your writing this mate. 

He's the England coach and will select who he sees fit.  Hes already said the door is not closed to anyone.  Wane isnt doing anything any other coach has not done.

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17 hours ago, Click said:

Who do realise that it is just a meet up, and this isn't the team that will be playing in the Ashes in 7 months?

Exactly, every time a squad or a meet up, train on squad are announced, people go into meltdown over it, it doesn't mean the players that are picked are going to be the only ones for selection or for the world cup, i suspect a lot of it to tell the players what they need to do to get into a squad, it could be that Widdop, Austin and Hastings for example are already aware of where they stand etc so no need for them to meet up.

15 hours ago, DavidM said:

Yeh must admit that’s a very strange one . He’s showed up well given a chance , and offers ultility value at a high level as well

Wane likes certain attributes and characters, he may play the game with a win at all costs attitude but he also comes across as being a disciplinarian and likes players with the right attitude to him, perhaps Jake doesn't fit in with his values and ethos?

It's not always on how good a player someone is, it's also about values, attitude commitment and how you are as a person that counts.

 

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I am convinced that Wane is going to instill an attitude of England vs. the traditional enemy in the English camp. Yes, he will have a game plan that he expects his team to execute but I also expect him to send the team out 100% motivated and fired up to play and fight for each other.

I also suspect that this is why he doesn't want any Australian accents in the camp.

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15 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Absolute rubbish that Jackson Hastings is behind enough half backs not to warrant a place in the squad 

In 4 games he didn't give the impression he was of international quality no matter how good he is at club level, I can think of another guy very good at club level who played in 37 international games was played in 4 positions to find him one but could not perform against Aus and NZ, better to find out sooner other than later.

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However, i do agree that unless we really have no options then we should be thanking the likes of SOL, Hill, Graham etc for their service, Roby is still quality for me and should be considered.

I agree about Smithies as well, he's a very good up and coming kid, but he's nowhere near good enough for an international place yet, i get that he's enthusiastic and hard working but he's also still growing and learning, much like the other potentially quality players that are coming through, but i wouldn't be comfortable with just chucking a teenager into an ashes series who hasn't had a full season at first grade yet.

I've said before, let the young lads develop and stop putting them on pedestals, we have seen it many times over the years, a young player breaks into a first team and impresses and yet suddenly there's a whole clamour to get him into the England/GB team, remember when Liam Sutcliffe had 3 or 4 good games at stand off for Leeds and suddenly here was the lad who was going to be our messiah, the half back we've all waited for to rule the world, Garry Schofield insisted we built the England team around him at 18 or something ridiculous, Luke Gale was a mid 20's regular for Bradford at the time and no one even mentioned him, Widdop, also in his mid 20's when he first got called up, point is, we build these young lads up way before they're ready and their careers invariably suffer for it.

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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

In 4 games he didn't give the impression he was of international quality no matter how good he is at club level, I can think of another guy very good at club level who played in 37 international games was played in 4 positions to find him one but could not perform against Aus and NZ, better to find out sooner other than later.

I have no issues with the selections and omissions of any players, he is a new coach and will live or die by his selections, as Bennett did - but I think it is harsh to write players off based on a limited series. Particularly one where we were shocking as a whole. 

An example is people writing off Austin. I have no issues with your stance here, but people dismissing him based on his two performances on the wing is silly. Nobody was saying he wasn't good enough the other week when he led his team to a 19 nil victory against the Champions. 

Similarly if Hastings is the best 7 in SL this year, then the argument that he isn't good enough doesn't wash - we go with the best we have, if they are not good enough, that's life. Like I say, I have no issues with not using Hastings and Austin because they are Aussies.

I would like to think Widdopp and Connor are being given a kick up the backside, which I have no issue with.

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19 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Would we beat this team?

1. James Tedesco

2. Josh Addo-Carr

3. Tom Trbojevic

4. Lattrell Mitchell

5. Nick Cotric

6. Luke Keary

7. Daly Cherry-Evans 

8. David Klemmer

9. Damien Cook

10. Payne Haas

11. Boyd Cordner 

12. David Fafita

13. Tom Trbojevic

 

14. Tyson Frizell

15. Cameron Munster

16. FeliseKaufusi

17. Jai Arrow

It's Jake Trbojevic, Tom's brother, who is playing at 13. You have selected Tom twice.

Edited by Manfred Mann
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4 minutes ago, meast said:

However, i do agree that unless we really have no options then we should be thanking the likes of SOL, Hill, Graham etc for their service, Roby is still quality for me and should be considered.

 

I think Roby should be going into the same category as those others you name tbh. People are raving about his WCC effort, but I think he looked old and pedestrian tbh. Still a good level of quality work, but that is the same for Graham, Hill and O'Loughlin. But I think we need more energy in the team and these are not the men to bring that.

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This team selection suggests that Sam Tomkins will be the England full back.

I can't imagine the only other full back candidate on that list, ZakHardaker, getting selected ahead of Tomkins on current form.

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3 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

It's Jake Trbojevic, Tom's brother who is playing at 13. You have selected Tom twice.

My mistake. Copy and paste (to be fair it is a pretty tricky surname to spell!)

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7 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

This team selection suggests that Sam Tomkins will be the England full back.

I can't imagine the only other full back candidate on that list, ZakHardaker, getting selected ahead of Tomkins on current form.

One thing that I expect we will see is a more common sense approach to selections and style. It was my biggest issue with Bennett at the end. I was delighted when he first signed, and we had some good showings (as well as some of the worst in my lifetime) but his obsession with playing games, trying to be clever, messing with the media, silly selections etc. just became really tiresome. 

At least Wane will be more honest and up front.

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44 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

He has not come out and said it, as he knows that it would be illegal to discriminate in that way. But it is clear as day to everyone that is what he is doing. 

He isn't English, has never played for England, doesn't have a British passport, citizenship or even a permanent right to reside. These would be nothing illegal about excluding him and definately nothing illegal about not picking him. Various sports exclude their own nationals who simply play overseas and nobody has successfully sued them (as far as I know).

I still think he should be in though, but he has to be played a certain way - having him cover one side and having him reign in his natural game like Bennett did would be a waste of time.

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22 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

This team selection suggests that Sam Tomkins will be the England full back.

I can't imagine the only other full back candidate on that list, ZakHardaker, getting selected ahead of Tomkins on current form.

Evalds is on the list and is a fullback. If he carries on his current form I'd put him behind Tomkins and ahead of Hardaker who isn't even playing fullback.

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1 minute ago, LR23 said:

Evalds is on the list and is a fullback. If he carries on his current form I'd put him behind Tomkins and ahead of Hardaker who isn't even playing fullback.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I agree with your judgment.

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19 hours ago, OMEGA said:

Full Back will probably be Tomkins who looked back to his best at the end of last season and in the 9s.

If not Tomkins then I’d like to see Evalds or Shaul get a go but Evalds has stolen a march on Shaul in the last season or so.

Wings will almost certainly be McGilvery and Makinson but Johnstone must be pressing very hard for selection. Manfredi still has a lot to do to catch these three!

Centres, I have a feeling we’ll see the reemergence of Kallum Watkins this year, so much so that he’ll be the first centre in the team.

Id love to see Percival get it together and combine all his talents into a string of complete performances that demand his selection.

If not Percival then maybe Griffin will offer a decent compromise between size, power and skills, however Wanes familiarity with Sarginson might get him the nod.

Halfs will probably be Williams (dependent on how he settles) and Gale who looks like he’s ready to have a big season at Leeds. If not Williams then I expect either Lomax or Tomkins to partner Gale.

At Prop Id go with Walmsley and Thompson to start, I see no reason to break up their partnership which works so well at Sts. Then off the bench I’d go with Watts and T Burgess with Graham still being a possibility but he looked a shadow of his former self last year.

Hookers would be Roby with Clarke off the bench! Never seen the quality others see in Hodgeson in fact I think he stifles the half backs with slow and selfish plays from DH.

2nd Rowers would probably be Whitehead and Bateman but they didn’t inspire on the GB tour either. The doors slightly open for Currie, Philbin, Farrell etc..

Loose Forward is a strange one, it depends what you want from that position. If you’re looking for an extra middle then maybe Sutton or Taylor. If you want a footballing back rower then our options are very limited. Possibly could go for Bateman in a roving role with one of the other second rowers (Currie) filling in the back row.

Theres time for someone to emerge during the season and I wouldn’t rule out Cameron Smith from Leeds raising his game and throwing his name into contention. He’s as big as most front rowers but has a lot of footballing and distribution ability, he could step up if he wants it enough.

  1. Tomkins
  2. McGilvery
  3. Watkins
  4. Percival
  5. Makinson
  6. Williams
  7. Gale
  8. Walmsley
  9. Roby
  10. Thompson
  11. Whitehead
  12. Currie
  13. Bateman
  14. Lomax
  15. Philbin
  16. Watts
  17. T Burgess

That team will worry the Aussies.

 


Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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Josh Charnley (Warrington Wolves)
Daryl Clark (Warrington Wolves)
Mike Cooper (Warrington Wolves)NO
Ben Currie (Warrington Wolves)
Niall Evalds (Salford Red Devils)
Liam Farrell (Wigan Warriors)
Luke Gale (Leeds Rhinos)
Oliver Gildart (Wigan Warriors)
Josh Griffin (Hull FC)
Zak Hardaker (Wigan Warriors)NO
Chris Hill (Warrington Wolves)NO
Jack Hughes (Warrington Wolves)
Tom Johnstone (Wakefield Trinity)
Josh Jones (Hull FC)
Jonny Lomax (St Helens)
Reece Lyne (Wakefield Trinity)
Jermaine McGillvary (Huddersfield Giants)NO
Paul McShane (Castleford Tigers)
Tommy Makinson (St Helens)
Dom Manfredi (Wigan Warriors)
Harry Newman (Leeds Rhinos)
Mark Percival (St Helens)
Joe Philbin (Warrington Wolves)
Stefan Ratchford (Warrington Wolves)
James Roby (St Helens)NO
Dan Sarginson (Salford Red Devils)NO
Scott Taylor (Hull FC)
Luke Thompson (St Helens)
Sam Tomkins (Catalans Dragons)
Alex Walmsley (St Helens)
Liam Watts (Castleford Tigers)

 

James Graham No

Ryan Hall No

 

From an Australian viewpoint just from players I know, I want England to compete and perhaps win.

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Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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6 minutes ago, Allora said:

That team will worry the Aussies.

 

Haha I'm going to presume you're being sarcastic their Allora - and to an extent I agree the Aussies won't be worried by that side. But I do think it's interesting to look at who could get in who's squad, so i've had a little play aroun (using the squad Dunbar put together which I reckon is pretty accurate) and marked in bold who I'd pick for each position. 

1. Tedesco          Tomkins

2. Addo-Carr       McGilvery

3. T Trbojevic     Watkins

4. Mitchell           Percival

5. Cotric              Makinson

6. Keary              Williams

7. Cherry-Evans Gale

8. Klemmer       Walmsley

9. Cook              Roby

10. Haas.           Thompson

11. Cordner       Currie

12. Fifita           Whitehead

13. J Trbojevic Bateman

 

14. Frizell          Watts

15. Munster     Lomax

16. Kaufusi      Philbin

17. Arrow        T Burgess

Ok so Williams over Keary and Whitehead over young Fifita might seem a stretch but I'm comfortable the rest are genuinely the best in the role they'd be asked to play. It's like I always say. England can put together 13/17 that will be competitive with Aus - we know that. The difference is I could write out 3 lists of Aussie players that would compete with England whereas the opposite is definitely not true. 

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Mike Cooper (Warrington Wolves)NO
Zak Hardaker (Wigan Warriors)NO
Chris Hill (Warrington Wolves)NO
Jermaine McGillvary (Huddersfield Giants)NO
James Roby (St Helens)NO
Dan Sarginson (Salford Red Devils)NO
James Graham No

Watkins can't have earned even a  mention on last year's performances.

Ryan Hall No

Of these only Sarginson has any merit on recent form, in Graham's case age I think, but Roby is a difficult one injuries though?


RL1.JPG.6a10be03c5528650e188f078de012540.JPG

 

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Why are people adding Ryan Hall into the list just to say he shouldn't be selected.

He wasn't selected.

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35 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Haha I'm going to presume you're being sarcastic their Allora - and to an extent I agree the Aussies won't be worried by that side. But I do think it's interesting to look at who could get in who's squad, so i've had a little play aroun (using the squad Dunbar put together which I reckon is pretty accurate) and marked in bold who I'd pick for each position. 

1. Tedesco          Tomkins

2. Addo-Carr       McGilvery

3. T Trbojevic     Watkins

4. Mitchell           Percival

5. Cotric              Makinson

6. Keary              Williams

7. Cherry-Evans Gale

8. Klemmer       Walmsley

9. Cook              Roby

10. Haas.           Thompson

11. Cordner       Currie

12. Fifita           Whitehead

13. J Trbojevic Bateman

 

14. Frizell          Watts

15. Munster     Lomax

16. Kaufusi      Philbin

17. Arrow        T Burgess

Ok so Williams over Keary and Whitehead over young Fifita might seem a stretch but I'm comfortable the rest are genuinely the best in the role they'd be asked to play. It's like I always say. England can put together 13/17 that will be competitive with Aus - we know that. The difference is I could write out 3 lists of Aussie players that would compete with England whereas the opposite is definitely not true. 

I disagree with many of those but that is what Forums like this are about.

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Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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24 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I don't think Ash Taylor should be selected for the Kangaroos. 

He will not be unless the Corona Virus takes out most of the Kangaroo Squad


Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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