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Ottawa and New York


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21 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

A very honest question, did the clubs vote, or was it the RFL who decided to let Ottawa into the League system?

Yes they voted unanimously for both Ottawa and New York. 

41 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And a fine useually goes along with docking points, but what if it is the majority of clubs, the RFL will have a real problem. 

What makes you think the majority of clubs won’t travel, when they unanimously wanted them in?

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4 minutes ago, SL17 said:

He doesn’t need to negotiate H. They hold a license.

Apparently he does in the question of funding, it is not a given as posted by some posters on here that they will recieve the same as other clubs in the division they play in. 

And as we have been informed there is no such thing as a licence.

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3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

But my point is still very relevant, don't you agree?

Totally, I meant to add that in my response.

But I don`t think it`s an issue though, the issue for them will be engaging the locals.

A situation that would of been easier if TWP were around.

Certainly the opportunity for package/group tours with a week in Canada has appeal.

 

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Just now, DoubleD said:

Yes they voted unanimously for both Ottawa and New York. 

What makes you think the majority of clubs won’t travel, when they unanimously wanted them in?

Don't know, and I already said I don't  know if it is the majority or minority of clubs and up to reading this thread I was unaware some L1 clubs were having concerns over Ottawa's entry. The question was a 'what if', should they just be promoted to start life in the Championship if L1 clubs do not want to travel, and if so that would bring up another load of questions.

Yes it was a speculative question, but I thought that was what debating forums were all about, apparently you know the answers DD so no discussion required then.

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56 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Hemel was a full member, Hemel was sold & purchased by new owners.

Full members are entitled to central funding dependent on competing in RFL competitions, how much funding depends on what tier & completing issued fixtures at that tier, and performance (in the case of Championship) 

Some Hemel Assets were spun off at the time of purchase I.e the community Club, lease (ownership?) Of facilities. 

Hemel then applied to relocate. Hemel got permission to relocate.....

It's not hard to figure out, there's no voodoo in this. 

The odd thing is that clubs which weren't based in the UK were always barred from becoming full members of the RFL. I wouldn't be at all surprised if everything isn't quite as EP says it is.

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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3 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Certainly the opportunity for package/group tours with a week in Canada has appeal.

Off course, but for travelling fans it would work be more appealing if and when both clubs would be in the same division, and fixtures were arranged as such to accommodate. 

This brings up another question, if that scenario did happen and it could be arranged that visiting clubs would play two fixtures that could mean clubs spending at least 10 days in Canada, or if not making two trips out there, in either scenario how many clubs would/could do that without the travel and accommodation they presently recieve?

I know it is not for this thread and apologies to everyone for the diversion, but these are just other things that the RFL/SL will/should be taking into consideration on the Toronto issue  as I say the precedent will be set.

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29 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Would it not have been prudent of Mr Perez through his experience of Toronto to insist on the applicable funding level commensurate to the league they play in to be awarded to them, seems he is going down the same road as I presume he travelled along when negotiating and detailing Toronto's entry. 

But whatever the deliberations come out of the Toronto judgement, I expect it will also apply to Ottawa.

The TWP judgement shouldn't have any effect on Ottawa, they are different organisations operating (proposing in Ottawa's case) different models and owned and run by different people. Would you kick Catalans out of the league if Toulouse folded? Of course you wouldn't.

As Ottawa due to the purchasing of Hemel are to all intents and purposes a relocation of Hemel they are full members of the RFL. They therefore have access to voting rights, central funding and all the bells and whistles associated with being a member club. Negotiation obviously did go on and both sides made concessions. The RFL would have wanted assurances that obligations would be met as with any other new club and will have wanted a period of forgoing of central funding on Ottawa's part for reasons of providing proof of concept, sustainability of the model and to provide a fund with which to compensate affected clubs should the Ottawa club not fulfil a season. Ottawa being a member club would have had some leverage during those negotiations to get a proportion at least of the requisite level of funding retained for themselves. Compromise in those negotiations then led to Ottawa getting part of the funding to aid with costs while the RFL retained part with which they can compensate affected clubs should the project fail. This will continue for a period commensurate with what is in the written agreement both parties signed.

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16 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

but these are just other things that the RFL/SL will/should be taking into consideration on the Toronto issue  as I say the precedent will be set.

I`ve been assuming that the Wolfpacks days were numbered. Argyles heart not in it anymore. Have I got it wrong?

Last q. on this topic on this thread.

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4 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

The TWP judgement shouldn't have any effect on Ottawa, they are different organisations operating (proposing in Ottawa's case) different models and owned and run by different people. Would you kick Catalans out of the league if Toulouse folded? Of course you wouldn't.

As Ottawa due to the purchasing of Hemel are to all intents and purposes a relocation of Hemel they are full members of the RFL. They therefore have access to voting rights, central funding and all the bells and whistles associated with being a member club. Negotiation obviously did go on and both sides made concessions. The RFL would have wanted assurances that obligations would be met as with any other new club and will have wanted a period of forgoing of central funding on Ottawa's part for reasons of providing proof of concept, sustainability of the model and to provide a fund with which to compensate affected clubs should the Ottawa club not fulfil a season. Ottawa being a member club would have had some leverage during those negotiations to get a proportion at least of the requisite level of funding retained for themselves. Compromise in those negotiations then led to Ottawa getting part of the funding to aid with costs while the RFL retained part with which they can compensate affected clubs should the project fail. This will continue for a period commensurate with what is in the written agreement both parties signed.

Hi Mike,

I suggested that the same rulings would apply in relation that they are both Transcontinental teams, there are going to be factors that apply to both, using your French comparrison carries little weight.

Quote:-

The RFL would have wanted assurances that obligations would be met as with any other new club and will have wanted a period of forgoing of central funding on Ottawa's part for reasons of providing proof of concept, sustainability of the model and to provide a fund with which to compensate affected clubs should the Ottawa club not fulfil a season.

How different do you see that than the initial Toronto discussions when they were accepted into the League structure, Full membership or otherwise.

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9 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I`ve been assuming that the Wolfpacks days were numbered. Argyles heart not in it anymore. Have I got it wrong?

Last q. on this topic on this thread.

Honestly I don't know Rod, I consider though if he gets a negative response to his requests that could very well sway his heart to not being in it.

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2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hi Mike,

I suggested that the same rulings would apply in relation that they are both Transcontinental teams, there are going to be factors that apply to both, using your French comparrison carries little weight.

Quote:-

The RFL would have wanted assurances that obligations would be met as with any other new club and will have wanted a period of forgoing of central funding on Ottawa's part for reasons of providing proof of concept, sustainability of the model and to provide a fund with which to compensate affected clubs should the Ottawa club not fulfil a season.

How different do you see that than the initial Toronto discussions when they were accepted into the League structure, Full membership or otherwise.

According to Eric Perez on the GP vodcast Toronto had been told they had access to funding only for that to be withdrawn shortly before entry. This caused the investors to pull out and almost killed the project. Whether that is 100% gospel no doubt people will debate but it speaks of a lesson learned for both parties from that process.

Other lessons will have been learned about the impact of a Canadian club playing in our system. Some will have encouraged acceptance, some encouraged caution but the conversations are not likely to have been the same for Ottawa as they were for the trailblazing TWP. Ottawa also have the aspect of being owned by a group that has a history of operating sports teams rather than a mining magnate who doesn't have that knowledge.

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3 hours ago, DoubleD said:

I’m interested to know who are these people who don’t like Ottawa entering? They were unanimously voted in if it recall correctly 

I meant more from the fans

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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On 25/07/2020 at 10:14, Mr Plow said:

A lot won’t like this but to be the most sensible thing to do right now would be to reintroduce licensing. SL need a plan for how they want the league to look and what direction they want to go in. 
 

Have a set of standards new clubs have to have e.g 10k stadium, 5 year financial plan. Start them in Championship for 3 years before they’re eligible to apply for a place in SL

Having a club play at the same level for a few years would be better than paying their way through the divisions and give the team and club more stability and give more confidence to SL that they can survive, develop and grow the game

Then hopefully we won’t have another situation like we do now with Toronto. I suppose this is similar to what the NRL do but having clubs renter into the Queensland and NSW cups 

Presumably relegating/not giving Wakefield a licence as they don't have a 10K stadium then? 

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18 minutes ago, HarrogateKnights said:

Presumably relegating/not giving Wakefield a licence as they don't have a 10K stadium then? 

oh no it will only be a stipulation for  new clubs we will still be able to keep the dumps we have now

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On 24/07/2020 at 17:01, wiganermike said:

Ottawa bought Hemel's membership 'licence' (for want of a better word) so will be treated as a relocated Hemel. They will get central funding. NY probably will not as they didn't take over an existing member club.

So if in the next few weeks Leigh/Fev buy TW's licence are they in SL?

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30 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

So if in the next few weeks Leigh/Fev buy TW's licence are they in SL?

They could buy Toronto Wolfpack and along with the Club, would take title of the Participation Agreement the Club holds. If you mean by licence, RFL Membership, Toronto ain't members, they merely hold a participation agreement. 

No doubt, they'd then have to get permission to relocate / rename. Don't think that would be forthcoming for the likes of Leigh/Fev. They'd be stuck having to play a certain minimum of home games somewhere in the Greater Toronto Area. 

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It I were Ottawa and New York, I'd give up right now and I'd go where I was wanted, not where I wasn't.  The weight of evidence and history is against them.  PSG, Toronto etc etc. 

As for growth and expansion in the UK, you can forget that, too.  Can't see any reputable, compliant and rich patrons with deep enough pockets to fund existing clubs to reach SuperLeague level  of skill and support. In the time before coronavirus, SL clubs were struggling with viability,. The situation is worse now.

I've enjoyed watching as many NRL games as possible in recent weekends ( I've managed between three and seven each weekend)  and I can't wait to see SL as soon as its back on Sky. That might lift my mood.

I'm interested in that drive, that rush to judgment, that is so prevalent in our society. We all know that pleasurable rush that comes from condemning, and in the short term it's quite a satisfying thing to do, isn't it?

J. K. Rowling

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5 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

They could buy Toronto Wolfpack and along with the Club, would take title of the Participation Agreement the Club holds. If you mean by licence, RFL Membership, Toronto ain't members, they merely hold a participation agreement. 

No doubt, they'd then have to get permission to relocate / rename. Don't think that would be forthcoming for the likes of Leigh/Fev. They'd be stuck having to play a certain minimum of home games somewhere in the Greater Toronto Area. 

You mean like Toronto wanted to do with Leigh ?

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