Israel Folau's stand

[Wellsy4HullFC]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

You guys do see the inherent problem in a group of predominantly white blokes insinuating that a BAME person is racist for not doing something...

(Having been to Australia I have no doubt Israel has seen and faced open racism on a regular basis throughout his life)

Who has insinuated he's racist?

[bobbruce]

17 minutes ago, PEANUT HEAD said:

No but he doesn't need to kneel.

Clearly,but I don’t see why he should be applauded for not kneeling unless we know why he choose not to kneel. 

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Who has insinuated he's racist?

Surely thats the implied implication of him not kneeling? Certainly has been in every other instance I've seen (see F1). At least to the extent that the individual doesn't care/take it seriously.

If it wasn't we wouldn't be talking about it.

[Henson Park Old Firm]

After Croatia beat Engaland in 2018 world cup semi final, I'm livid to this day about it and I can't stand croatians especially what they did to mwle....I lost £100 bet

 

 

 

.... I guess I'm a racist.

[GUBRATS]

Sex , politics , religion 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

15 minutes ago, PEANUT HEAD said:

No but he doesn't need to kneel.

In response to "No" - If you don't only do things you need to, then "because I don't need to" isn't really a consistent reason. I'm not even sure what "I am as good as the next person" is meant to mean in this case?

In response to "but he doesn't need to kneel" - again, nobody has said it implied that.

4 minutes ago, PEANUT HEAD said:

I know about his previous comments and his views and it is still his choice and his choice if he wishes not to disclose them.

Again, no one has argued differently.

I don't think you're really understanding the conversation because you keep making points to arguments no one has made.

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Sex , politics , religion 

Well, if I had to pick just one...

[Wellsy4HullFC]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Surely thats the implied implication of him not kneeling? Certainly has been in every other instance I've seen (see F1). At least to the extent that the individual doesn't care/take it seriously.

If it wasn't we wouldn't be talking about it.

I was thinking people were more curious of his intentions rather than implying he was racist. Curiosity brings attention, not just controversy.

[Curly perm]

When did we get to the point where someone needs to justify why they haven’t made an overtly political statement?
 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

14 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Clearly,but I don’t see why he should be applauded for not kneeling unless we know why he choose not to kneel. 

This.

People that are applauding him prematurely I assume are assuming he has similar intentions to themselves.

I won't assume I know what their own intentions are.

[dboy]

It was definitely implied that by not kneeling he did not support BLM.

Howler, no-one has the right to ask him to explain himself.

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 minute ago, Curly perm said:

When did we get to the point where someone needs to justify why they haven’t made an overtly political statement?
 

Nobody said he needs to.

[Mr Frisky]

10 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Clearly,but I don’t see why he should be applauded for not kneeling unless we know why he choose not to kneel. 

The trouble is the young lads in Soccer, cricket and Rugby are almost being shamed into Kneeling and it they dont they are called all sorts of vile names.

Let's not forget BLM want to defund the police, so especially in soccer, how would a policeman or woman who gets paid just over £20k a year feel when they are there to protect a highly paid sportsman who stands to defund them.....

That's the problem- everyone can have free speech- until it goes against the left.

Sport and its young stars should not be dragged into this matter, ever.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Just now, dboy said:

It was definitely implied that by not kneeling he did not support BLM.

Howler, no-one has the right to ask him to explain himself.

 

People have the right to ask anyone what they like.

Nobody has the right to TELL him to justify himself. There's a difference. A HUGE one.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 minute ago, Mr Frisky said:

The trouble is the young lads in Soccer, cricket and Rugby are almost being shamed into Kneeling and it they dont they are called all sorts of vile names.

Let's not forget BLM want to defund the police, so especially in soccer, how would a policeman or woman who gets paid just over £20k a year feel when they are there to protect a highly paid sportsman who stands to defund them.....

That's the problem- everyone can have free speech- until it goes against the left.

Sport and its young stars should not be dragged into this matter, ever.

Don't mix the movement up with the organisation.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

48 minutes ago, dboy said:

It's a well acknowledged and recognised point that the "left" are using fascist methodologies to promote and progress their ideologies. 

What Hitler, Mussolini, Franco did works...

Close down free speech, thought, harang and bully dissenting voices, gives them generic descriptors (Parasites, Karens', Gammons', Oreos, Coconuts etc), book burning, re-write history, de-platform people you don't agree with.

Left wing is still left, and right wing is still right - the extremes of both remain hateful.

In the US, the term "liberal" is now claimed by the left (or maybe given to them by the right).

Fascism is inherently right wing, far right wing. You cannot be the fascist left. This is a stupid term given out by people who don’t understand what fascism is or want to use negative labels to denigrate those who they oppose politically. It’s ridiculous.

i live in the US and liberals are basically centrists, often time with conservative leanings but identifying with the left. Of course America has a political system whereby mitt Romney is the center, joe Biden is apparently left wing and anyone with basic social democratic ideas are communists.

[GUBRATS]

So why is everybody discussing it ?

[Mr Frisky]

Just now, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Don't mix the movement up with the organisation.

They are the same marra and no place in RL or forcing these young lads Into a kneel.

[dboy]

Just now, Wellsy4HullFC said:

People have the right to ask anyone what they like.

Nobody has the right to TELL him to justify himself. There's a difference. A HUGE one.

You can ask him if you feel that is your right.

He has the right to tell you to off and mind your own business.

(Human Rights Act, Article

[dboy]

Just now, dboy said:

You can ask him if you feel that is your right.

He has the right to tell you to off and mind your own business.

(Human Rights Act, Article

Article 8

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

5 minutes ago, dboy said:

It was definitely implied that by not kneeling he did not support BLM.

Howler, no-one has the right to ask him to explain himself.

 

He might have a dodgy knee

[Wellsy4HullFC]

3 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

They are the same marra and no place in RL or forcing these young lads Into a kneel.

Who has been forced?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So why is everybody discussing it ?

Curiosity.

[dboy]

3 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Fascism is inherently right wing, far right wing. You cannot be the fascist left. This is a stupid term given out by people who don’t understand what fascism is or want to use negative labels to denigrate those who they oppose politically. It’s ridiculous.

i live in the US and liberals are basically centrists, often time with conservative leanings but identifying with the left. Of course America has a political system whereby mitt Romney is the center, joe Biden is apparently left wing and anyone with basic social democratic ideas are communists.

I didn't say that - I said the left were using fascist methodologies (cleverer people than me will explain why it is actually fascism, but that's not my argument).

The end does not justify the mean.

 

[Tex Evans Thigh]

1 hour ago, Saintslass said:

No; not all of us.  Personally I thought he was brave not to kneel down.  If he does not agree with the movement then he is simply showing integrity by not bowing to it.  To do so when he knows there is pressure to conform and will be mass hysteria when he makes his stand shows courage.  'Courage of their conviction' used to be an admired quality even when it was a conviction others did not agree with.  Some in British society appear to have lost the ability to disagree with others without hurling insults or making derogatory statements.

Depends what the conviction is. If I stood up in support of murderers or rapists because I believed in their right to murder or rape people, would that be courageous? Suppose it would be in a sense but I doubt it would be a good move.

if Folau has a good reason for not kneeling, such as religious beliefs, then fair enough and I don’t think anyone would have a problem. If he came out and said he doesn’t believe black people should be treated equally then I would hope he wouldn’t be deemed courageous. 

given his record I think it would be useful for him to clarify. He doesn’t have to of course but without doing so he runs the risk of people assuming he’s racist as well as homophobic.