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John Drake

Sat 19th Sept: CCQF: St Helens v Warrington Wolves KO 2.30pm (BBC)

Who will win?  

28 members have voted

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  1. 1. Who will win?

    • St Helens
      15
    • Warrington Wolves
      13

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  • Poll closed on 19/09/20 at 14:00

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2 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

I must day I am supprised that Gellings try was not chalked off by off side, but our commentators didn't examine that. Great leap by Gelling.

He's not offside. This is the moment of the kick. 

 

Screenshot_20200919_194249.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

He's not offside. This is the moment of the kick. 

They done good, Dave, they run strong!

And then you were unlucky to miss the two easy teams in the Draw!

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8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

He's not offside. This is the moment of the kick. 

 

Screenshot_20200919_194249.jpg

Thanks.  He was out if frame when i saw it.  To show I am not prejudiced, I thought  French looked (certainly it worried me) off side to me at first blush. But they later did show it was clearly on side.

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Incredibly frustrating day. In our worryingly several big-game defeats to Warrington, we have conspired to lose in a lot of different ways, but I never in my wildest dreams would have thought a ball bouncing forward off a player's head into Charnley's hands would have occurred. There was absolutely no way to stop it. Most of the time the ball would have gone to the floor but a freak incident really cost us.

But we do need to look beyond that. We were poor at the ruck and gave away far too many set restarts. More worryingly, we were ambushed towards the end of the first half. Our strength has been our defence since lockdown but we were cut open several times. Obviously, Percival's departure didn't help (and nor did having to reshuffle again in the second half when Welsby went off). What the match did show was how much we missed Makinson's kick returns.

We have frequently dipped when Walmsley and Thompson (now Graham) take a break, but this was the first time we were punished for it. I imagine a prop forward or two will be on our shopping list for 2021. Again, we made uncharacteristic errors in big matches. Coote has had 2 bad games since joining Saints. Today, and last year's Challenge Cup Final. I thought we had shaken this bad habit towards the end of last year, but it reared its head again today.

Positives were Naiqama's performance. Really strong in defence and adjusted well when he moved to the wing. Second half was far better than the first, but we were always chasing the game. More widely, Saints, Warrington and Wigan are significantly better than the rest of the teams in the league and the rest have got a lot of catching up to do.

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Wolf seems to struggle to get Saint's up for big game's, WCC, today, he might be better off letting them play their regular flowing game than to a predetermined plan it obviously doesn't suit the player's he has under him, they looked shackled at times today and it wasn't just down to excellent Wire defence. Wire deserved the win, it just might (not) be their year.

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45 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Incredibly frustrating day. In our worryingly several big-game defeats to Warrington, we have conspired to lose in a lot of different ways, but I never in my wildest dreams would have thought a ball bouncing forward off a player's head into Charnley's hands would have occurred. There was absolutely no way to stop it. Most of the time the ball would have gone to the floor but a freak incident really cost us.

But we do need to look beyond that. We were poor at the ruck and gave away far too many set restarts. More worryingly, we were ambushed towards the end of the first half. Our strength has been our defence since lockdown but we were cut open several times. Obviously, Percival's departure didn't help (and nor did having to reshuffle again in the second half when Welsby went off). What the match did show was how much we missed Makinson's kick returns.

We have frequently dipped when Walmsley and Thompson (now Graham) take a break, but this was the first time we were punished for it. I imagine a prop forward or two will be on our shopping list for 2021. Again, we made uncharacteristic errors in big matches. Coote has had 2 bad games since joining Saints. Today, and last year's Challenge Cup Final. I thought we had shaken this bad habit towards the end of last year, but it reared its head again today.

Positives were Naiqama's performance. Really strong in defence and adjusted well when he moved to the wing. Second half was far better than the first, but we were always chasing the game. More widely, Saints, Warrington and Wigan are significantly better than the rest of the teams in the league and the rest have got a lot of catching up to do.

A good honest verdict, I agree those  three are a level above everyone else but Leeds and Cats are capable of winning one of games. As a fan we seem to be finally getting rid of that giant monkey of our backs (saints) were now it seems games are decided on the field rather than in the head. 

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30 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

Wolf seems to struggle to get Saint's up for big game's, WCC, today, he might be better off letting them play their regular flowing game than to a predetermined plan it obviously doesn't suit the player's he has under him, they looked shackled at times today and it wasn't just down to excellent Wire defence. Wire deserved the win, it just might (not) be their year.

To be fair, few if any St Helens coaches have managed to get the team up for the WCC over the years.


"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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5 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Saints looked drained with 10 mins to go.

We were down to 2 substitutes given the injuries to Welsby and Percival. This also knackered our forward rotation, hard to avoid fatiguing under those conditions. I expected us to fade away in the last 20 to be honest! 

1 hour ago, Clogiron said:

Wolf seems to struggle to get Saint's up for big game's, WCC, today, he might be better off letting them play their regular flowing game than to a predetermined plan it obviously doesn't suit the player's he has under him, they looked shackled at times today and it wasn't just down to excellent Wire defence. Wire deserved the win, it just might (not) be their year.

Hard to argue Saints didn't seem up for the WCC, that was a real contest. Why would we have moved the ball loads with two second rowers at centre?

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21 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

When did welsby go off? Wasn't mentioned on broadcast 

I started watching 35 minutes or so in and at that point, Naiqama was already on the wing with Knowles at centre. So some time before then!

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1 hour ago, Saint 1 said:

I started watching 35 minutes or so in and at that point, Naiqama was already on the wing with Knowles at centre. So some time before then!

I'll have to watch it back,  the comm team spent a lot of the game putting him over, I thought naiqama was only covering on the wing for kicks

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10 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Thanks.  He was out if frame when i saw it.  To show I am not prejudiced, I thought  French looked (certainly it worried me) off side to me at first blush. But they later did show it was clearly on side.

It's all so fast I regularly think they are offside on these tries. Split second stuff. 

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9 hours ago, Futtocks said:

To be fair, few if any St Helens coaches have managed to get the team up for the WCC over the years.

Unless we are playing Brisbane 

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It’s been nice to see some open rugby again after 5 years of general dullness. We’re seeing some really fun stuff from players who we didn’t know had it in them. Yesterday was a great advert for RL so I hope there were lots of neutral sports viewers who had the chance to see what we can offer.

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47 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

It’s been nice to see some open rugby again after 5 years of general dullness. We’re seeing some really fun stuff from players who we didn’t know had it in them. Yesterday was a great advert for RL so I hope there were lots of neutral sports viewers who had the chance to see what we can offer.

I still have big reservations about Price's coaching, but I am very pleased with some of the stuff we are doing at the moment. I do think we seem to have found a nice attacking rhythm and I think the pace from Ashton at FB and the unpredictability of Ratch at half back has made a huge difference. This has allowed Austin to become more focused and direct. 

A shout out should also go to Mamo who has been a bit of a revelation in recent performances. 

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19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A shout out should also go to Mamo who has been a bit of a revelation in recent performances.

Yes, I meant to mention this yesterday. He’s off at the end of the season which is a shame as the current style of play we’re seeing really suits him.

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2 hours ago, Dave T said:

It's all so fast I regularly think they are offside on these tries. Split second stuff. 

The fact that so few are actually offside is down to the practice the players put in on the training field. Hours and hours. 
It is usually the kicker that is flat therefore making it easier for the rest of the team to remain onside

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28 minutes ago, Dave T said:

...

A shout out should also go to Mamo who has been a bit of a revelation in recent performances. 

Yes...good point.  He always looks to do more than you expect. 

From a Wigan point of view French shows how dangerous he is. But my man of the match every time he plays is Farrell.  If he keeps fit for 2 years then he and Bateman will make Wigan very dangerous.

Jonathan Davis is nobody's fool (and he only has limited opportunities to speak on TV) but he took the chance to spot Harry Smith as a future England nr7.

And from a Saints perspective they miss Thompson.  I'm a big  (big!) admirer of Graham, but even though he gives 100%, he looks to me to have just 25% in him these days. 

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10 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Yes...good point.  He always looks to do more than you expect. 

From a Wigan point of view French shows how dangerous he is. But my man of the match every time he plays is Farrell.  If he keeps fit for 2 years then he and Bateman will make Wigan very dangerous.

Jonathan Davis is nobody's fool (and he only has limited opportunities to speak on TV) but he took the chance to spot Harry Smith as a future England nr7.

And from a Saints perspective they miss Thompson.  I'm a big  (big!) admirer of Graham, but even though he gives 100%, he looks to me to have just 25% in him these days. 

I find Farrell an odd one. He is a consistent top performer, despite IMHO not being as skilful, or big, or fast as many others competitors. He performs way above his weight and his quality of line running is outstanding. 

Agree on Graham, I think it was a bit of a nostalgia signing to keep fans happy after losing Thompson. 

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12 hours ago, Chris22 said:

Positives were Naiqama's performance. Really strong in defence and adjusted well when he moved to the wing.

Agree with your summing up especially missing Makinson's kick returns.

On the bit highlighted, Naiqama's running style is a worry especially when he comes into the contact area, he continually turns his back and goes down bottom first with his back to his opponents, I believe he is a prime candidate to be on the recieving end of a 'crusher' tackle, and in the heat of multiple defenders involved in the tackle were the "first in" gets weight from behind the crusher could be accidentally effected, and it will have been promoted by Naiqama's style and not any malicious wrong doing. If you haven't noticed just watch him. 

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57 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

Yes, I meant to mention this yesterday. He’s off at the end of the season which is a shame as the current style of play we’re seeing really suits him.

Is he? He signed a 2 year deal partway through last year

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10 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

Is he? He signed a 2 year deal partway through last year

Oh I thought I'd read on this forum or maybe another that he was leaving this year. I hope he stays, as he's excellent competition for the backline.

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19 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

Oh I thought I'd read on this forum or maybe another that he was leaving this year. I hope he stays, as he's excellent competition for the backline.

I would think it better to let him go, we have Inglis here next year and there are a few promising backs that will be pushing for first team places. He is a versatile decent player but clubs need to look forward all the time. 

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