Hull KR ground now known as "Hull College Craven Park" after 2019 sponsorship...how did this happen?

[Old Frightful]

Some interesting stuff here.

https://feweek.co.uk/2021/01/21/colleges-240k-rugby-stadium-naming-deal-investigated/?fbclid=IwAR3gkBBDox2Nnq_p1zcarWae9mOmQnrBXJjmgGNSYgOJ9jfrB_BIODw0AIQ

The College received a £50 million bail out in 2018, after struggling somewhat with their finances, yet seemed able to fund a £240k three year sponsorship deal with Hull KR.

Liz Winn, Vice Prncipal at the College who had been there for two years and was responsible for marketing during the time of the sponsorship deal, has now resigned from the College and has joined Hull KR.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/hull-college-boss-step-down-4913971

I'm sure everything was above board.

 

[LeytherRob]

Is there a reason why Hull KR don't have a main shirt sponsor this year? If it's a deliberate choice, seems a strange one considering the financial climate.

[Eddie]

23 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Is there a reason why Hull KR don't have a main shirt sponsor this year? If it's a deliberate choice, seems a strange one considering the financial climate.

Braim Newsagents on Holderness Road weren’t interested this year. 

[M j M]

52 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Is there a reason why Hull KR don't have a main shirt sponsor this year? If it's a deliberate choice, seems a strange one considering the financial climate.

Paul Lakin Q&A as Hull KR CEO talks investment, stadium purchase, potential rebrand and more

Quote

On the commercial front, you’ll have seen that we launched our home and away shirt without a main sponsor. We now have a new home shirt and a new away shirt sponsor, both with a national presence.

It was always my intention to take our time with that and look to see what the market is not only in Hull but on a much wider geographical area.

We’re really pleased that we’ve secured two companies that have a national presence in their own sectors. We’ll announce them towards the end of the month.

 

[LeytherRob]

27 minutes ago, M j M said:

Paul Lakin Q&A as Hull KR CEO talks investment, stadium purchase, potential rebrand and more

 

Thanks, that makes more sense. 

[DimmestStar]

Rovers are close to agreeing the purchase of the freehold of the stadium. Thank you Neil Hudgell, no longer chairman but still owner and benefactor. Let's not forget Rovers already own the leasehold which is why the deal for naming rights gives the club such a lucrative deal..

It's an issue Hull FC will never have because they don't have a ground of their own and any income from the stadium goes to the stadium management group owned by Hull City AFC. As long as Hull FC pay their rent they will have somewhere to play but that's the only right they have.

I think Rovers made the right decision to decline the right to play at The KC and invest in Craven Park.

Regarding shirt sponsorship Rovers have secured home and away shirt sponsorship and this will be announced soon.

Last years 6,000 plus season tickets doesn't look like being matched but 5,000 looks likely which is phenomenal in the circumstances. Fans still don't even know if they will get anything for their money. Just imagine the support Rovers would get if ever they achieved success on the pitch.

Paul Lakin's energy has refreshed the club and I'm looking forward to gradual improvement over the next few years.

 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

On 22/01/2021 at 19:38, Old Frightful said:

Some interesting stuff here.

https://feweek.co.uk/2021/01/21/colleges-240k-rugby-stadium-naming-deal-investigated/?fbclid=IwAR3gkBBDox2Nnq_p1zcarWae9mOmQnrBXJjmgGNSYgOJ9jfrB_BIODw0AIQ

The College received a £50 million bail out in 2018, after struggling somewhat with their finances, yet seemed able to fund a £240k three year sponsorship deal with Hull KR.

Liz Winn, Vice Prncipal at the College who had been there for two years and was responsible for marketing during the time of the sponsorship deal, has now resigned from the College and has joined Hull KR.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/hull-college-boss-step-down-4913971

I'm sure everything was above board.

 

Ha ha.......... league wins who cares

[Old Frightful]

11 hours ago, DimmestStar said:

It's an issue Hull FC will never have because they don't have a ground of their own and any income from the stadium goes to the stadium management group owned by Hull City AFC. As long as Hull FC pay their rent they will have somewhere to play but that's the only right they have.

Not strictly true as I think you may be aware but perhaps chose not to mention.

The football club own the 49 year lease of the SMC, so it will be up for renegotiation presumably in around 31 years, not that it will be of much interest to me by then, I imagine. 

Unfortunately, when the KC Stadium was built, the running of the SMC was offered to both Hull City and Hull FC for a sum of £50K if I remember correctly. Wisely, Hull City grabbed the opportunity to have at least a part say in it, the fly by nights that were in charge of Hull FC at that time chose not to, as they would be long gone soon after. So, as you quite correctly say, Hull FC are currently in a bad position when it comes to any sort of negotiations as regards use of the stadium. In fact, Hull City Council, in spite of owning the stadium, are also in the same position as Hull FC, getting taken to the cleaners every time they rent the stadium's facilities thanks to them allowing the SMC to be run by the football club rather than an independent body. As you might imagine, the Allams have used this power to it's full potential, riding roughshod over anything not football related when it comes to the stadium's use.

It would be nice for my lot to have their own ground but, when I look around at the rest of SL, I can't help but wonder if owning your own ground and keeping it in decent nick and up to current regulations is too much of a burden for a RL club, certainly in the recent financial climate with all it's uncertainty. Unless your backer has enough brass not to be too concerned with those worries, then that will never go away.

 

 

[JohnM]

45 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

Not strictly true as I think you may be aware but perhaps chose not to mention.

The football club own the 49 year lease of the SMC, so it will be up for renegotiation presumably in around 31 years, not that it will be of much interest to me by then, I imagine. 

Unfortunately, when the KC Stadium was built, the running of the SMC was offered to both Hull City and Hull FC for a sum of £50K if I remember correctly. Wisely, Hull City grabbed the opportunity to have at least a part say in it, the fly by nights that were in charge of Hull FC at that time chose not to, as they would be long gone soon after. So, as you quite correctly say, Hull FC are currently in a bad position when it comes to any sort of negotiations as regards use of the stadium. In fact, Hull City Council, in spite of owning the stadium, are also in the same position as Hull FC, getting taken to the cleaners every time they rent the stadium's facilities thanks to them allowing the SMC to be run by the football club rather than an independent body. As you might imagine, the Allams have used this power to it's full potential, riding roughshod over anything not football related when it comes to the stadium's use.

It would be nice for my lot to have their own ground but, when I look around at the rest of SL, I can't help but wonder if owning your own ground and keeping it in decent nick and up to current regulations is too much of a burden for a RL club, certainly in the recent financial climate with all it's uncertainty. Unless your backer has enough brass not to be too concerned with those worries, then that will never go away.

 

 

"can't help but wonder if owning your own ground and keeping it in decent nick and up to current regulations is too much of a burden for a RL club, certainly in the recent financial climate with all it's uncertainty" 

Indeed. That is why so many organisations - public sector, charities, shops, offices, factories, hotels, etc etc lease their premises rather than buying them. 

[redjonn]

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

"can't help but wonder if owning your own ground and keeping it in decent nick and up to current regulations is too much of a burden for a RL club, certainly in the recent financial climate with all it's uncertainty" 

Indeed. That is why so many organisations - public sector, charities, shops, offices, factories, hotels, etc etc lease their premises rather than buying them. 

yes indeed, unless you owned, then sold to lease, paid out extra "profits" in dividends in those years benefitting from enhancement of  income, then left the increasing rent costs to those business upon selling or leaving the business, etc etc.. especially when stuck with a long lease for which you don't want a shop or use anymore...

Maybe not entirely on topic but never-the-less has bitten many a business. 

[JohnM]

4 hours ago, redjonn said:

yes indeed, unless you owned, then sold to lease, paid out extra "profits" in dividends in those years benefitting from enhancement of  income, then left the increasing rent costs to those business upon selling or leaving the business, etc etc.. especially when stuck with a long lease for which you don't want a shop or use anymore...

Maybe not entirely on topic but never-the-less has bitten many a business. 

Not off topic as this applies to Hull KR and maybe other clubs too. If regarded by mods as political, then delete it, no issue.

My point is that owning your own rugby league ground does not always confer the advantages that some claim. It all depends. It does  though, sound odd that "Liz Winn, Vice Principal at the College who had been there for two years and was responsible for marketing during the time of the sponsorship deal, has now resigned from the College and has joined Hull KR"

Perhaps the Ministerial Code should apply to lower level appointments: “On leaving office, Ministers will be prohibited from lobbying Government for two years. They must also seek advice from the independent Advisory Committee on Business Appointments about any appointments or employment they wish to take up within two years of leaving office. Former Ministers must abide by the advice of the Committee.” [Ministerial Code, section 7.25] 1. The business appointment rules for former Ministers

[redjonn]

21 hours ago, JohnM said:

Not off topic as this applies to Hull KR and maybe other clubs too. If regarded by mods as political, then delete it, no issue.

My point is that owning your own rugby league ground does not always confer the advantages that some claim. It all depends. It does  though, sound odd that "Liz Winn, Vice Principal at the College who had been there for two years and was responsible for marketing during the time of the sponsorship deal, has now resigned from the College and has joined Hull KR"

Perhaps the Ministerial Code should apply to lower level appointments: “On leaving office, Ministers will be prohibited from lobbying Government for two years. They must also seek advice from the independent Advisory Committee on Business Appointments about any appointments or employment they wish to take up within two years of leaving office. Former Ministers must abide by the advice of the Committee.” [Ministerial Code, section 7.25] 1. The business appointment rules for former Ministers

I agree it does look somewhat out-of-order... especial as it relates to public money used to bail out the institution.

[Ullman]

On 23/01/2021 at 19:42, DimmestStar said:

Rovers are close to agreeing the purchase of the freehold of the stadium. Thank you Neil Hudgell, no longer chairman but still owner and benefactor. Let's not forget Rovers already own the leasehold which is why the deal for naming rights gives the club such a lucrative deal..

It's an issue Hull FC will never have because they don't have a ground of their own and any income from the stadium goes to the stadium management group owned by Hull City AFC. As long as Hull FC pay their rent they will have somewhere to play but that's the only right they have.

I think Rovers made the right decision to decline the right to play at The KC and invest in Craven Park.

Regarding shirt sponsorship Rovers have secured home and away shirt sponsorship and this will be announced soon.

Last years 6,000 plus season tickets doesn't look like being matched but 5,000 looks likely which is phenomenal in the circumstances. Fans still don't even know if they will get anything for their money. Just imagine the support Rovers would get if ever they achieved success on the pitch.

Paul Lakin's energy has refreshed the club and I'm looking forward to gradual improvement over the next few years.

 

I fail to see how any of that is relevant to the matter in question, which is whether there has been an inappropriate use of public funds. The interim chief exec of Hull College clearly thinks that is the case. The fact that the college batted away a Freedom of Information Request for a year suggests somebody has got something to hide.

I don't think anybody is suggesting any impropriety on the part of Rovers but it doesn't reflect well on the people at the college who were responsible for making those decisions.

[dboy]

It's one thing to overstep the boundaries of your role and sign off a chunk of money to an external recipient.

It's another level to do it and then leave to take up a senior post with that external recipient.

Someone is getting burned at the end of this.

[HKR AWAY DAYS]

On 22/01/2021 at 21:21, LeytherRob said:

Is there a reason why Hull KR don't have a main shirt sponsor this year? If it's a deliberate choice, seems a strange one considering the financial climate.

We do. 

It'll be revealed soon. 

[Old Frightful]

A bit more about this here :

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/hull-college-interim-boss-hull-4930639

Lowell Williams, interim chief executive at Hull College states :

 

"The idea of the college having a link with the club is fantastic because both organisations are at the centre of the community in Hull but given the college has received significant public funds and money is scarce in further education, I think questions should have been asked on whether spending that much money on a sponsorship deal was the best use of public money or could it have been used for something better?

I think many people will think it could have been spent on something better."

[Old Frightful]

On 25/01/2021 at 17:24, Ullman said:

I don't think anybody is suggesting any impropriety on the part of Rovers but it doesn't reflect well on the people at the college who were responsible for making those decisions.

Especially if one of them was to voluntarily leave their role as Hull College Vice Principal to take up a job with Hull KR in the next few months.

[dead man inc]

On 01/02/2021 at 06:03, Old Frightful said:

Lowell Williams, interim chief executive at Hull College states ... but given the college has received significant public funds and money is scarce in further education, I think questions should have been asked on whether spending that much money on a sponsorship deal was the best use of public money or could it have been used for something better?

I think many people will think it could have been spent on something better."

£240,000 is a significant amount of public money. However, the average funding per 16-19 student in general further education colleges in 2019/20 academic year allocations was £4,677.

So assuming each student completes a 2 year course, Hull College Group would only need to recruit an extra 26 students over the 3 year period to break even on their £240,000 sponsorship outlay.

It might be difficult for them to prove that the extra 26 students were recruited purely from the advertising/raised profile with Hull KR.

From Hull KR’s point  of view £240,000 is a lot of money, but the newspaper headlines and negative media PR will also have an impact on the clubs image.