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Are you worried about attendances?


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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I don't disagree, diversity is key, but we also live in a world that subscription models are normal. Netflix etc gives you entertainment for a regular monthly payment, as does your gym, xbox live, etc. 

We are part way there with DD's for season tickets, but we are still a bit different. 

Why wouldn't £25 a month give you all inclusive access to your club, videos, matches - whatever you want, you are a member, it's yours. We can go 100% that model which means we don't focus on PPV cash purchases. 

But you are right, we also need to have a cash buyers at the moment, we have a bit of a traditional model that maybe has had its time. 

I think the point is how traditional models, particularly ones that "tie in" consumers have been challenged. Netflix may still be a monthly charge, but I could cancel it the moment it stops being interesting - something I can't do with a Sky subscription with an 18 month lock-in. Likewise, onerous gym contracts have been replaced by £10-a-month "cancel anytime" contracts. 

RL has perhaps fallen into that trap that some of those legacy brands have fallen into - relying on inertia to sell tickets, rather than the quality of the product? How many Leeds fans would turn up to a game against Salford or Leigh if the game wasn't basically "bundled into" and paid for through the season ticket? That might look good on the attendance figures, but it's not good for diversifying the audience. 

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1 minute ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I think the point is how traditional models, particularly ones that "tie in" consumers have been challenged. Netflix may still be a monthly charge, but I could cancel it the moment it stops being interesting - something I can't do with a Sky subscription with an 18 month lock-in. Likewise, onerous gym contracts have been replaced by £10-a-month "cancel anytime" contracts. 

RL has perhaps fallen into that trap that some of those legacy brands have fallen into - relying on inertia to sell tickets, rather than the quality of the product? How many Leeds fans would turn up to a game against Salford or Leigh if the game wasn't basically "bundled into" and paid for through the season ticket? That might look good on the attendance figures, but it's not good for diversifying the audience. 

I work in banking, and a huge part of the model is being reliant on inertia. I think that leads to complacency and lack of creativity. Loyalty can lead to lack of effort without doubt. 

I make this point often, I don't necessarily think we have the wrong models, or the wrong product etc. I think we do many of the right things, I just don't think we do them well enough or consistent enough. 

I genuinely think if we did what we currently did but demanding effort and high standards in everything we do we would see marked results. We don't necessarily need to rewrite the playbook, just do things well. Then do them well again. And again. 

Considering the sport has gone down this methodical route of process, it stuns me that the off field operations haven't seen the synergies. 

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On 02/08/2021 at 15:14, Eddie said:

It’s a sad fact that most people a few miles away in places like Speke and Halewood won’t even know there’s a semi pro RL team on their doorstep. Maybe even Runcorn too. 

I went to school in Runcorn. I reckon the vast majority people are well aware that Widnes has a rugby club. Same in Speke or Halewood to be honest. That doesn't necessarily translate into those people having any real desire to go and watch.  Plenty of schools RL activity in Runcorn over the years (and some current pro players from Runcorn). Warrington had some decent efforts at giving away tickets in Runcorn pre-pandemic too. 

6347 at Craven Park yesterday - pretty decent under the circumstances.

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2 hours ago, JonM said:

I went to school in Runcorn. I reckon the vast majority people are well aware that Widnes has a rugby club. Same in Speke or Halewood to be honest. That doesn't necessarily translate into those people having any real desire to go and watch.  Plenty of schools RL activity in Runcorn over the years (and some current pro players from Runcorn). Warrington had some decent efforts at giving away tickets in Runcorn pre-pandemic too. 

I went to school in Castleford.

People who didn't know that Castleford had a Rugby League team were regarded as eccentric.

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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13 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

They were both belters... Jesus if you do watch them and don't like them then maybe league isn't for you..... There is a close relative of the game with more "variety" in game play - give that a try

How long have you been involved with the game and have you tried it (Dare I ask at what level or what attracted you to the game)

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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18 hours ago, JonM said:

I went to school in Runcorn. I reckon the vast majority people are well aware that Widnes has a rugby club. Same in Speke or Halewood to be honest. That doesn't necessarily translate into those people having any real desire to go and watch.  Plenty of schools RL activity in Runcorn over the years (and some current pro players from Runcorn). Warrington had some decent efforts at giving away tickets in Runcorn pre-pandemic too. 

6347 at Craven Park yesterday - pretty decent under the circumstances.

Of course they are aware, you are spot on. People go completely over the top with claims like this - people don't live in little vacuums, they have Sky Sports, they have the BBC, they read newspapers, websites etc. 

Of course awareness will be lower than in towns with teams, but that's normal. 

As you say, awareness is one thing - getting people to want to join in and watch/play/invest is the challenge.

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20 hours ago, Griff said:

I went to school in Castleford.

People who didn't know that Castleford had a Rugby League team were regarded as eccentric.

I lived in Widnes. People from Runcorn who were not eccentric were regarded as abnormal

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17 hours ago, Marauder said:

How long have you been involved with the game and have you tried it (Dare I ask at what level or what attracted you to the game)

Played league at school (Hemel schools has a leagur) and then community until early 20s. A rubbish level of Union now as middle aged man but i enjoy it! 

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9431 at Wigan tonight, which I think is decent considering the hammering season tickets have taken this year. 2022 is when we can start sensibly judging the real impact of Covid on crowds across the leagues.

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On 04/08/2021 at 14:00, ShropshireBull said:

Will be interested to see whether Fev can keep the momentum up in terms of fan numbers this week. Not expecting 4000 but if they could be pushing around the 2500 mark that would be good. 

Fev aren't at home this week but....

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Is it possible that Leeds Rhinos are suffering a bit as Leeds United are now back in football’s top flight?

I know the hardcore fans for either side will always be there (for both sides), but there must be some crossover for some people in Leeds and West Yorkshire which says they’ll spend more money and time on whatever’s more successful.

That might mean jibbing off Leeds, Cas or Wakey for either a LUFC ticket or even a Sky/BT subscription as I imagine the football season tickets are already like gold dust over there.

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19 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Is it possible that Leeds Rhinos are suffering a bit as Leeds United are now back in football’s top flight?

I know the hardcore fans for either side will always be there (for both sides), but there must be some crossover for some people in Leeds and West Yorkshire which says they’ll spend more money and time on whatever’s more successful.

That might mean jibbing off Leeds, Cas or Wakey for either a LUFC ticket or even a Sky/BT subscription as I imagine the football season tickets are already like gold dust over there.

Yeah, massive club Leeds having to open all parts of Elland Road again while their loyal glory hunter fans flood back must have had some impact. 

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18 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Yeah, massive club Leeds having to open all parts of Elland Road again while their loyal glory hunter fans flood back must have had some impact. 

Leeds United have always had a large bunch of dedicated fans, regardless of how well they are doing. Their attendances have held up well and attract support from all over Yorkshire (for whatever reason, I personally can’t stand them - which makes it awkward when so many of my oldest friends are life long supporters)

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8 hours ago, Eddie said:

Not disastrous, but not great either, especially if Cas took a few. 

Cas's turnout was pretty disappointing tbh. Way down on previous years where there end would normally be packed. As the photos show possibly half or less of what they would usually bring (for their grand final too 😉 )

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It’s not just attendances at Leeds United that are a factor.

I imagine there are quite a few now investing their time and money into following this current Leeds United team via Sky/BT subscription and will have jibbed off their focus on their rugby league team now or at least made them secondary.

People only have so much time, money and bandwidth for leisure pursuits.  It’s an exciting time for Leeds United and hopefully Leeds Rhinos can respond in their own way.

 

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50 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Is it possible that Leeds Rhinos are suffering a bit as Leeds United are now back in football’s top flight?

I know the hardcore fans for either side will always be there (for both sides), but there must be some crossover for some people in Leeds and West Yorkshire which says they’ll spend more money and time on whatever’s more successful.

That might mean jibbing off Leeds, Cas or Wakey for either a LUFC ticket or even a Sky/BT subscription as I imagine the football season tickets are already like gold dust over there.

If it's impacting the Rhinos it will be impacting others as well. As Johnoco says, I'm always surprised by how many fans of other rugby league teams are probably first and foremost Leeds United fans.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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I'm sure there is some impact but I doubt it's huge. Leeds have their own segment and appeal and the attendance fall-off is not out of line with other SL clubs.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

If it's impacting the Rhinos it will be impacting others as well. As Johnoco says, I'm always surprised by how many fans of other rugby league teams are probably first and foremost Leeds United fans.

Indeed, I always laughed at my old club teammates who would sing "we all hate Leeds ####" at Cas on a Friday night then post  "All Leeds Aren't We #MOT" on a Saturday afternoon for LUFC.

Leeds United are the biggest sporting institution across West and significant parts of North Yorkshire. The RL clubs are all fighting for second place in their relevant areas, and given there are 11 of them in West Yorkshire (and Huddersfield Town and Bradford City), most are actually fighting for 3rd 4th or 5th.

Edited by Tommygilf
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