Super League ready

[Guest]

Just now, Scubby said:

The thing is waiting for Toulouse to win a promotion in October for a Feb start in 2020, realistically who can they sign to be more competitive than they are. It is an age old story.

There are a lot of pretty exciting top NRL players off contract but none will opt for Toulouse because there is no certainty until mid-October. The system is flawed and stacked towards the incumbents of SL.

We got to keep it ring fenced for sides like Wakey, Salford and Huddersfield so they can grow their support.

[Toby Chopra]

1 minute ago, Scubby said:

The thing is waiting for Toulouse to win a promotion in October for a Feb start in 2020, realistically who can they sign to be more competitive than they are. It is an age old story.

There are a lot of pretty exciting top NRL players off contract but none will opt for Toulouse because there is no certainty until mid-October. The system is flawed and stacked towards the incumbents of SL.

If we do go to 14 for 2022, I hope they'll promote the top team automatically and then have the second from the playoff series. That might give TO another month to work with. 

[Spidey]

34 minutes ago, Leonard said:

London had 17 players.

They put out kids - but they had 17.

 

Apologies, I saw a team list with only 15 on... now I can't find it

[Scubby]

Just now, Toby Chopra said:

If we do go to 14 for 2022, I hope they'll promote the top team automatically and then have the second from the playoff series. That might give TO another month to work with. 

It does look like they have the type of resources to land 2-3 top quality NRL players but they are not going to commit on a half promise. 

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Apologies, I saw a team list with only 15 on... now I can't find it

Widnes should be allowed 18 atm

[Guest]

Just now, Scubby said:

It does look like they have the type of resources to land 2-3 top quality NRL players but they are not going to commit on a half promise. 

I assume the new structure will be agreed well in advance of season end, which will guarantee TO go up.

[Toby Chopra]

5 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

When people were making this comparison yesterday on the match thread I didn't understand it either. Most of Toronto's problems came from the distance they and other teams had to travel and thus the costs incurred by that. I imagine the administrative problems the distances and costs brought about were a nightmare as well. Toronto also had to grow a completely unknown sport in a new market. 

None of this is relevant in terms of TWP's poor performance on the field in SL in 2020 before they pulled out. 

The team was based in Manchester, and did no travelling to Canada, and the financials made no difference either as they spent way more than the cap including SBW. 

The fact is they just didn't improve their team in the right places to make the transition from Championship to SL. Toulouse will have to recruit heavily and smartly if they want to stand a chance of staying up. 

[Man of Kent]

7 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Where do you see the difference? When I look at the TO squad I see a very similar blend of players to what TWP put out in its abortive SL season: antipodean imports who aren't quite good enough for NRL, and ex SL players who either never quite cut it at that level, or once could but have faded of late. Plus no SBW!

Where do you see the quality difference in Toulouse? Like every promoted team, they'll have to add significant quality if they want to stay up, as the difference between SL and Championship is a chasm these days. 

How long have you got?!

Toulouse are essentially Catalans MkII: a mix of French, British and Antipodeans with youth development and a reserve side - they are a club, not just a team.

They also have the advantage of a core of players and a coach who have been there for some time. They have been building towards Super League for years. It's not a flash in the pan, cowboy thing. 

[Harry Stottle]

12 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

When people were making this comparison yesterday on the match thread I didn't understand it either. Most of Toronto's problems came from the distance they and other teams had to travel and thus the costs incurred by that. I imagine the administrative problems the distances and costs brought about were a nightmare as well. Toronto also had to grow a completely unknown sport in a new market. 

Toulouse have been competing in English leagues for a few years now without too much difficulty and certainly the costs for teams of travelling to France another time won't be anywhere near as big a problem as a trip to Toronto would have been. Its not like teams would be stepping into the unknown like with Toronto because they've been travelling to Catalans for years. The two situations really can't be compared. 

We were discussing the merits of the team in the park, nothing more, and as for growing a sport in a new market (Canada) compared to an existing one (France) I would say Toronto acheived what Toulouse would give a ransom to acheive, it is a like for like comparrison Toronto and Toulouse have only performed at home outside of SL what was the Toulouse home average in its last full season?

[Harry Stottle]

44 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Surprised Leigh didn't get Paul Rowley back to give the band one last tour. 

Is that the best you can do, sad.

[Scubby]

Just now, Man of Kent said:

How long have you got?!

Toulouse are essentially Catalans MkII: a mix of French, British and Antipodeans with youth development and a reserve side - they are a club, not just a team.

They also have the advantage of a core of players and a coach who have been there for some time. They have been building towards Super League for years. It's not a flash in the pan, cowboy thing. 

Yep, I believe since returning to the UK structure they have finished 5, 3, 2, 1 and currently first in the Championship. They also last lost a regular league game (non play off) on July 6th 2019 - that's 24 straight victories. That is a club building for the future.

[Harry Stottle]

19 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Where do you see the difference? When I look at the TO squad I see a very similar blend of players to what TWP put out in its abortive SL season: antipodean imports who aren't quite good enough for NRL, and ex SL players who either never quite cut it at that level, or once could but have faded of late. Plus no SBW!

Where do you see the quality difference in Toulouse? Like every promoted team, they'll have to add significant quality if they want to stay up, as the difference between SL and Championship is a chasm these days. 

Just stop talking sense Toby, you will shatter the illusion of these fortune tellers.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

None of this is relevant in terms of TWP's poor performance on the field in SL in 2020 before they pulled out. 

The team was based in Manchester, and did no travelling to Canada, and the financials made no difference either as they spent way more than the cap including SBW. 

The fact is they just didn't improve their team in the right places to make the transition from Championship to SL. Toulouse will have to recruit heavily and smartly if they want to stand a chance of staying up. 

I think this is right, they were mucking about with a PR signing, almost forgetting that RL is a team game and they needed a team around SBW.

I don't think we would see the same from TO at all, I think they would be well aware that they would need to strengthen, their squad is certainly not ready, they will need o make signings, and I'm sure they would. 

[The Rocket]

There are, as reported last week, 141 current NRL first graders, as yet unsigned for next year. With a half decent coach I`m sure that there will be some players in there that could help to make Toulouse a real goer next year.

It would be worth their while to have a word to Trent Robinson about who he thinks might be a handy addition.

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think this is right, they were mucking about with a PR signing, almost forgetting that RL is a team game and they needed a team around SBW.

I don't think we would see the same from TO at all, I think they would be well aware that they would need to strengthen, their squad is certainly not ready, they will need o make signings, and I'm sure they would. 

The difficulty is time and stability. Who is going to come at 12 weeks notice on a relegation clause contract? Certainly not a player who is going to have other clubs vying for his signature.

[Man of Kent]

6 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yep, I believe since returning to the UK structure they have finished 5, 3, 2, 1 and currently first in the Championship. They also last lost a regular league game (non play off) on July 6th 2019 - that's 24 straight victories. That is a club building for the future.

Absolutely.

They will have to strengthen, sure, but perhaps not dramatically. 

Unlike Toronto I imagine they will have managed their cap to be able to do so effectively – i.e. not spend overs on long contracts to p*ss the Championship, bet the farm on a has-been for the likes and then find there’s not enough headroom for an adequate squad.

Given their Championship squad, I wouldn't be surprised if they could outspend Wakefield and Salford (and Leigh).

[Just Browny]

14 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

How long have you got?!

Toulouse are essentially Catalans MkII: a mix of French, British and Antipodeans with youth development and a reserve side - they are a club, not just a team.

They also have the advantage of a core of players and a coach who have been there for some time. They have been building towards Super League for years. It's not a flash in the pan, cowboy thing. 

Yes, think one of the main reasons for their success is that they have kept a lot of continuity in the side; Kheirallah and Ford have been around for years. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Scubby said:

The difficulty is time and stability. Who is going to come at 12 weeks notice on a relegation clause contract? Certainly not a player who is going to have other clubs vying for his signature.

of course, but many will, and I have confidence that they would do better than the last couple of teams to enter SL imho.

[Harry Stottle]

24 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

If we do go to 14 for 2022, I hope they'll promote the top team automatically and then have the second from the playoff series. That might give TO another month to work with. 

No, the comp to obtain promotion is a play off series with a GF, if two are to be promoted both the finalists for me.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

No, the comp to obtain promotion is a play off series with a GF, if two are to be promoted both the finalists for me.

nah, if you are promoting the Grand Finalists either way, then the Grand Final is a bit irrelevant. 

[Toby Chopra]

1 minute ago, Just Browny said:

Yes, think one of the main reasons for their success is that they have kept a lot of continuity in the side; Kheirallah and Ford have been around for years. 

That doesn't automatically make them good enough for superleague though. 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

We were discussing the merits of the team in the park, nothing more, and as for growing a sport in a new market (Canada) compared to an existing one (France) I would say Toronto acheived what Toulouse would give a ransom to acheive, it is a like for like comparrison Toronto and Toulouse have only performed at home outside of SL what was the Toulouse home average in its last full season?

Yeah and I was saying that Toronto had far more problems than just poor recruitment, it wasn't just poor recruitment that killed them off, in fact I don't think it was much of a problem at all, I mean when London were in SL and barely won a game they didn't just disappear, Leigh haven't just packed up and liquidated because they haven't been winning any games. Toronto were killed off by a poor business model, administrative problems when it came to travel, a lack of funds (or rather spending money in the wrong places) and ultimately covid. Toulouse aren't gonna have a lot of these problems in SL, that is what I was saying. Recruitment was the least of Toronto's problems. 

[Toby Chopra]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

No, the comp to obtain promotion is a play off series with a GF, if two are to be promoted both the finalists for me.

Given we're allegedly going to change the rules mideason anyway I don't think there's anything we particularly need to stick with. Also one automatic and one via playoff would match what we already do in L1. 

[Harry Stottle]

20 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

How long have you got?!

Toulouse are essentially Catalans MkII: a mix of French, British and Antipodeans with youth development and a reserve side - they are a club, not just a team.

They also have the advantage of a core of players and a coach who have been there for some time. They have been building towards Super League for years. It's not a flash in the pan, cowboy thing. 

For all their infrastructure, they will have to go way beyond that - halfway around the world - to amas a squad to compete in SL.

Tell me what are they doing better than say Saints, Wigan and Leeds and those 3 who produce SL player's, all 3 still go to the Antiopodees and Islands to supplement their teams. Stop hiding behind facts being reliant on home grown players they would be an average Championship team.

[Whippet13]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

London only named 15 players, hardly the best test.

I would have expected Leigh to perform as well in the Championship as Toulouse have done this year (and play a lot more games)

That's not to say Toulouse wouldn't do okay in SL, its not as clear cut as is being made out

21-Man-Squad for Toulouse Olympique XIII - London Broncos RL

4 subs selected were: Hindmarsh, Ogden, Horsman and Gwaze.