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6 minutes ago, DC77 said:

What’s astounding (in addition to this post) is that two people actually liked it. 

“Take off my own blinkers and be honest, women’s football has been marketed way above its popularity”.

Is this in response to what I said on this thread?....”I think they are undoubtedly getting coverage above and beyond viewer demand, and justifiably so as I said previously.”

Ok I’ll take off my blinkers now and admit what I’ve said umpteen times before.

 

Besides this nonsense, referring to demand is pointless as their coverage in the league is not based on that. It’s self evident, so self evident it’s absurd to bring it up. 

So leaving aside the non issue that is demand, your issue (and the other whingers) is you don’t agree with women’s sport getting a push. I and most others disagree as they (in this case football) have been held back and discriminated against in the past, that their development has been hampered. Is the standard that great now? No, but that’s not the point. You have to start somewhere.

Has women's sport or football been held back or discriminated against by the media? I'm not aware that it has. It was by the FA but I'm not sure if that is grounds to justify pushes by the media. If it was then other sports could make similar demands of the media due to outside discrimination.

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Just now, Damien said:

Has women's sport or football been held back or discriminated against by the media?

I think it's still the case that women's sport accounts for about 5% of all sports coverage in the UK media.

So, you know, I think the answer is fairly obviously, yes.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I think it's still the case that women's sport accounts for about 5% of all sports coverage in the UK media.

So, you know, I think the answer is fairly obviously, yes.

That is a completely meaningless statement and does not mean discrimination.

Is women's Rugby League being discriminated against because it doesn't get the exact same coverage as men? Your logic dictates that it is. Please answer honestly then extrapolate that against various sports that get the majority of media attention.

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This thread isn't about who does or doesn't like, follow, support  etc womens football. There are, though, in my view, lessons we can learn and actions we can take from the BBC coverage of women's football.

1. They have a schedule to fill.

2. They can't afford much in terms of top level sport.

3. They have a story to tell about the sport.

4. There are some powerful advocates of women's football.

I'm sure we can address those points in relation to  our sport.

 

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“If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.” Zen Proverb

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1 minute ago, JohnM said:

This thread isn't about who does or doesn't like, follow, support  etc womens football. There are, though, in my view, lessons we can learn and actions we can take from the BBC coverage of women's football.

1. They have a schedule to fill.

2. They can't afford much in terms of top level sport.

3. They have a story to tell about the sport.

4. There are some powerful advocates of women's football.

5. It fits their liberal lefty right on woke agenda.

I'm sure we can address those points in relation to  our sport.

 

I made this point a few pages ago. The sport should be doing its upmost to promote women's RL and take advantage of the goodwill that exists towards women's sport at this moment in time.

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12 minutes ago, Damien said:

That is a completely meaningless statement and does not mean discrimination.

Is women's Rugby League being discriminated against because it doesn't get the exact same coverage as men? Your logic dictates that it is. Please answer honestly then extrapolate that against various sports that get the majority of media attention.

Why would I answer dishonestly?

Women’s rugby league absolutely should get more coverage. There is a market for it. That it doesn’t is almost entirely down to the lack of support given to it by the RFL.
 

Is that because of discrimination? Given that we have matches called off because there aren’t enough medics to go round then there could be easily be an issue there.

And I never said exact same coverage.

 

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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56 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Where does the snidey bit come into it though? I'm not insinuating or hinting at anything, it's quite clear I think it's very poor. 

Snide means something different completely. 

But I'm also unclear about how pretending it's earned its high profile coverage is associated with anything in relation to getting better coverage for RL?

If you care to read back, I'm highly critical of RL and it's habit of shooting itself in the foot. That's not my point in all this though. 

You’re knocking Women’s Football basically throughout this thread - having little digs all the way through.

Instead of trying to find out why they’re being successful now, you’re just full of bitterness.

That attitude won’t help us gain more favourable coverage.  

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32 minutes ago, JohnM said:

This thread isn't about who does or doesn't like, follow, support  etc womens football. There are, though, in my view, lessons we can learn and actions we can take from the BBC coverage of women's football.

1. They have a schedule to fill.

2. They can't afford much in terms of top level sport.

3. They have a story to tell about the sport.

4. There are some powerful advocates of women's football.

I'm sure we can address those points in relation to  our sport.

 

Post edited, for blindingly obvious reasons.

John, you know the TRL rules.

If you want to wang on about 'woke' agendas at the Beeb, get thee hence to the politcs sub forum. not in here.

Ta.

.

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49 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Why would I answer dishonestly?

Women’s rugby league absolutely should get more coverage. There is a market for it. That it doesn’t is almost entirely down to the lack of support given to it by the RFL.
 

Is that because of discrimination? Given that we have matches called off because there aren’t enough medics to go round then there could be easily be an issue there.

And I never said exact same coverage.

Sorry I didn't mean to insinuate that you would.

It was an example, I could have easily said something else like Women's RU. I was just trying to demonstrate that headline statistics don't really tell much. Mens football literally has various UK leagues shown on various channels in the UK as well as European competitions and internationals. Men's Cricket is played for days, ditto Golf. I can quickly see why a statistic like this is the way it is and that is not to say that women's sport isn't shown for a these, it certainly is. However the volume and number of events doesn't exist. That is before we get to RL and RU.

I remember various women's sports having always having good representation on TV. Even women like Laura Davies in Golf and Alison Fisher in Snooker were household names, that is before the likes of athletes and tennis players. Whilst granted these were all mostly individual sportwomen I'm not sure there has been discrimination by the media. In terms of team sports I would say the governing bodies of various sports are far more guilty than any media.

Going back to women's RL I don't really see why a sport should automatically get coverage just because it's a female sport. In the case of women's RL it's only really been going in its current guise for a couple of years. It is far from a polished product. As you say the lack of coverage isn't because of discrimination, it's because of the sports own negligence and neglect. I don't particularly see it as the responsibility of the media to fast track it just because the sport hasn't given a damn for 100+ years.

Does that mean it should get more coverage as is? Of course yes if someone wants to, and I'm happy to see as much as possible, but I think it's still got work to do. If it got close to the Women's NRL then I think a broadcaster will be snapping the sports hand off to show it.

 

Edited by Damien
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1 hour ago, DC77 said:

What’s astounding (in addition to this post) is that two people actually liked it. 

“Take off my own blinkers and be honest, women’s football has been marketed way above its popularity”.

Is this in response to what I said on this thread?....”I think they are undoubtedly getting coverage above and beyond viewer demand, and justifiably so as I said previously.”

Ok I’ll take off my blinkers now and admit what I’ve said umpteen times before.

 

Besides this nonsense, referring to demand is pointless as their coverage in the league is not based on that. It’s self evident, so self evident it’s absurd to bring it up. 

So leaving aside the non issue that is demand, your issue (and the other whingers) is you don’t agree with women’s sport getting a push. I and most others disagree as they (in this case football) have been held back and discriminated against in the past, that their development has been hampered. Is the standard that great now? No, but that’s not the point. You have to start somewhere.

That is just rambling and contradicts itself a lot. I will leave it there thanks, I won't lose any sleep if women's football gets loads of coverage or none. 

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55 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

You’re knocking Women’s Football basically throughout this thread - having little digs all the way through.

Instead of trying to find out why they’re being successful now, you’re just full of bitterness.

That attitude won’t help us gain more favourable coverage.  

I'm knocking it because I think it is very poor. Do I *have* to like it? 

There is absolutely no bitterness, despite how much you want that to be true - because I simply don't care about it. It can be on TV 24/7.....my life won't be affected one iota. But I will still think it's poor and doesn't deserve the coverage it gets.

Sorry about that. 

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On 07/09/2021 at 20:52, RigbyLuger said:

Fully agree. Our output is generally pathetic. 

No build up on YouTube outside of their official podcast with has had guests such as Ade Gardner and Ian Blease on recently. Hardly players who we need to do more to promote and as the governing body, they should be able to speak to everyone they want to!

Given the general standard, it`s a moot point whether the paucity of RFL output should be mourned.

In the week of the WSL Southern final, I began watching an interview with a Cardiff Demons player on Our League.

They had scored on the third play of their semi-final. The presenter`s incisive question was "were you expecting to score that early"? - That was enough for me.

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11 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I'm knocking it because I think it is very poor. Do I *have* to like it? 

There is absolutely no bitterness, despite how much you want that to be true - because I simply don't care about it. It can be on TV 24/7.....my life won't be affected one iota. But I will still think it's poor and doesn't deserve the coverage it gets.

Sorry about that. 

Who deserves that coverage more and why?

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1 hour ago, JohnM said:

This thread isn't about who does or doesn't like, follow, support  etc womens football. There are, though, in my view, lessons we can learn and actions we can take from the BBC coverage of women's football.

1. They have a schedule to fill.

2. They can't afford much in terms of top level sport.

3. They have a story to tell about the sport.

4. There are some powerful advocates of women's football.

I'm sure we can address those points in relation to  our sport.

 

Let`s assume for the sake of argument that the BBC have featured and promoted Women`s Soccer to a degree unwarranted by its contemporary popularity, with the aim of making it more popular subsequently.

For us, the relevant question is why aren`t the RFL at the BBC`s door asking " would you like to do the same for women`s RL".

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2 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Who deserves that coverage more and why?

Let me ask you another way....

Which do you think is more genuine and deserving of coverage/support? A band comprising Simon Cowell's latest project, which is promoted on prime time Saturday night TV and has Zoe Ball banging on about them on Radio 2 all day.

Or a genuine bunch of musicians who write their own stuff and started out playing small pubs before building a dedicated fanbase. But need a bit of a push to really break through...

Which of these do you think is more a)  genuinely a band or musicians? And b)  which one will get more publicity? 

 

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3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Which do you think is more genuine and deserving of coverage/support? A band comprising Simon Cowell's latest project, which is promoted on prime time Saturday night TV and has Zoe Ball banging on about them on Radio 2 all day.

Or a genuine bunch of musicians who write their own stuff and started out playing small pubs before building a dedicated fanbase. But need a bit of a push to really break through...

Similar reflections were the staple conversation of mean and moody 80s teenagers fond of big black coats and cockatoo haircuts.

Then when any "genuine bunch of musicians" did get a well-deserved major-label push, they were instantly disowned and accused of selling out.

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21 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Let me ask you another way....

Which do you think is more genuine and deserving of coverage/support? A band comprising Simon Cowell's latest project, which is promoted on prime time Saturday night TV and has Zoe Ball banging on about them on Radio 2 all day.

Or a genuine bunch of musicians who write their own stuff and started out playing small pubs before building a dedicated fanbase. But need a bit of a push to really break through...

Which of these do you think is more a)  genuinely a band or musicians? And b)  which one will get more publicity? 

 

To bring you back to my original post, there’s a science to how they decide what to cover and why based on popularity, growth, demographics and sports rights.

It’s a fallacy to say we don’t get media coverage on the BBC or a promotion push.

Remember the World Cup pullout news being plastered on virtually every bulletin and platform?

However as a sport in which the domestic game is at best stagnant and still has a footprint that in U.K. terms is limited, there’s only so much that can be expected unless we change and learn.  

Women’s Football is growing almost exponentially in our country, the domestic product, the WSL, is almost starting to follow the same path as the men’s Premier League circa 1994 in terms of talent acquisitions from abroad to boost the product.

Arsenal women are getting some larger crowds than Wigan RL men!  Perhaps we need to find out why they’re managing to be successful rather than moaning.

 

 

 

Edited by Gerrumonside ref
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21 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Let`s assume for the sake of argument that the BBC have featured and promoted Women`s Soccer to a degree unwarranted by its contemporary popularity, with the aim of making it more popular subsequently.

For us, the relevant question is why aren`t the RFL at the BBC`s door asking " would you like to do the same for women`s RL".

Exactly the point. Pushing at an open door.

“If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.” Zen Proverb

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46 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Similar reflections were the staple conversation of mean and moody 80s teenagers fond of big black coats and cockatoo haircuts.

Then when any "genuine bunch of musicians" did get a well-deserved major-label push, they were instantly disowned and accused of selling out.

Absolutely correct but that's not necessarily the point here. 

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48 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

To bring you back to my original post, there’s a science to how they decide what to cover and why based on popularity, growth, demographics and sports rights.

It’s a fallacy to say we don’t get media coverage on the BBC or a promotion push.

Remember the World Cup pullout news being plastered on virtually every bulletin and platform?

However as a sport in which the domestic game is at best stagnant and still has a footprint that in U.K. terms is limited, there’s only so much that can be expected unless we change and learn.  

Women’s Football is growing almost exponentially in our country, the domestic product, the WSL, is almost starting to follow the same path as the men’s Premier League circa 1994 in terms of talent acquisitions from abroad to boost the product.

Arsenal women are getting some larger crowds than Wigan RL men!  Perhaps we need to find out why they’re managing to be successful rather than moaning.

 

 

 

There you go then, Arsenal ladies are obviously more popular than Wigan RL.  I will leave it here but will happily get back to you whenever the women's PL gets crowds on a par with the men's one (as it's following the same path), or I hear anyone talking about it in a social context. Whichever comes first.

Edited by Johnoco
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2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

There you go then, Arsenal ladies are obviously more popular than Wigan RL.  I will leave it here but will happily get back to you whenever the women's PL gets crowds on a par with the men's one (as it's following the same path), or I hear anyone talking about it in a social context. Whichever comes first.

Head. In. Sand.

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