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Fear Of Relegation


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There are (in the most) part some very knowledgeable folk on here.

However that here we can not fathom what happens to under 20s in their development nor easily find the details perhaps says plenty about the sport's organization..

I am not a football fan much, but I can tell you about their Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP) and the fixed no quibble compensation fees when players move from club to club. 

Like I say the ambiguity, is it ignorance, conspiracy or coque up or a wilful blurring to mask some curious practices.

Now back to the thread. Fear of relegation. 

It is a real simply because the drop is too big.

It is like say Yorkshire CC got relegated from a competition funded like the County Championship to one like YCSPL or Leeds United from the Premiership to the National League in one go. 

Until the second tier is adequately funded in comparison with SL, then P&R will mean it will destroy clubs. (But maybe that is the thinking?)

A senior grade of say 20 clubs, an Intermediate level of the same and then Amateur and College competitions. In co-operation with all of Europe.

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2 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

And you could also add Tony Smith's own club at the time Huddersfield who didn't improve until p&r was reintroduced

Yeah if anything relegation did Huddersfield good. People seem to ignore the success stories of promotion though.

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1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

Yeah if anything relegation did Huddersfield good. People seem to ignore the success stories of promotion though.

The fear of relegation verses the joy of promotion 🤔

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The fact is there are pros and cons either way. Licencing has it’s good points and so does p/r. However, all sports are in the entertainment industry so while jeopardy adds theatre, so does players chancing their arm without fear does too. 

The problem is the sport is too poor to support two fully pro comps. The drop down in overall playing standard and cost wise is huge. For that reason alone, I'd like to see licencing introduced. 

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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53 minutes ago, RayCee said:

The fact is there are pros and cons either way. Licencing has it’s good points and so does p/r. However, all sports are in the entertainment industry so while jeopardy adds theatre, so does players chancing their arm without fear does too. 

The problem is the sport is too poor to support two fully pro comps. The drop down in overall playing standard and cost wise is huge. For that reason alone, I'd like to see licencing introduced. 

Don't take this the wrong way ray , but how does it affect you ?

 

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Don't take this the wrong way ray , but how does it affect you ?

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Why am I interested in the subject? I'd like to see a strong SL but am seeing it withering on the vine. 

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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As a Hull KR fan I disagree with Tony Smith on this.

After the success of the 80's Rovers hit financial troubles and spent a long time in the lower leagues but in 2006 we gained entry to Super League thanks to promotion. Nobody at Rovers was against P&R then.

Ten years later we were relegated again but were strong enough to return at the first attempt - again thanks to P&R. Other relegated clubs like Bradford and Widnes were not strong enough and so remain in the championship.

Those long years prior to 2006 were tough for a Rovers fan but there was one thing that was always there - hope. You have to give championship and league 1 clubs the hope of progression and you need P&R for that.

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3 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

As a Hull KR fan I disagree with Tony Smith on this.

After the success of the 80's Rovers hit financial troubles and spent a long time in the lower leagues but in 2006 we gained entry to Super League thanks to promotion. Nobody at Rovers was against P&R then.

Ten years later we were relegated again but were strong enough to return at the first attempt - again thanks to P&R. Other relegated clubs like Bradford and Widnes were not strong enough and so remain in the championship.

Those long years prior to 2006 were tough for a Rovers fan but there was one thing that was always there - hope. You have to give championship and league 1 clubs the hope of progression and you need P&R for that.

Do you feel that p/r can lead to short term planning by clubs and overly defensive tactics to stay up? I think that's what he's getting at. I don't think he's against p/r as a concept but rather the effect it has on the sport as an entertainment spectacle and the pressure it puts on owners. 

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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39 minutes ago, RayCee said:

I'm not sure what you mean. Why am I interested in the subject? I'd like to see a strong SL but am seeing it withering on the vine. 

I too would like to see a strong SL , and a strong Championship , and a strong League 1 , similarily the community game 

 

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2 hours ago, RayCee said:

I'm not sure what you mean. Why am I interested in the subject? I'd like to see a strong SL but am seeing it withering on the vine. 

And you think Licensing will solve the problems you see? Wasn't it a flop before, and why are you against a Competition that offers teams a level down the opportunity to get promoted on the field which at the end of the day is what Sport is all about?

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27 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

And you think Licensing will solve the problems you see? Wasn't it a flop before, and why are you against a Competition that offers teams a level down the opportunity to get promoted on the field which at the end of the day is what Sport is all about?

 

3 hours ago, RayCee said:

The fact is there are pros and cons either way. Licencing has it’s good points and so does p/r. However, all sports are in the entertainment industry so while jeopardy adds theatre, so does players chancing their arm without fear does too. 

The problem is the sport is too poor to support two fully pro comps. The drop down in overall playing standard and cost wise is huge. For that reason alone, I'd like to see licencing introduced. 

See bold type.

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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11 hours ago, DimmestStar said:

As a Hull KR fan I disagree with Tony Smith on this.

After the success of the 80's Rovers hit financial troubles and spent a long time in the lower leagues but in 2006 we gained entry to Super League thanks to promotion. Nobody at Rovers was against P&R then.

Ten years later we were relegated again but were strong enough to return at the first attempt - again thanks to P&R. Other relegated clubs like Bradford and Widnes were not strong enough and so remain in the championship.

Those long years prior to 2006 were tough for a Rovers fan but there was one thing that was always there - hope. You have to give championship and league 1 clubs the hope of progression and you need P&R for that.

From what I remember about 2006 is that we pretty much went for broke to get promoted and if we had failed to get back at the first attempt in 2017 then we would probably still be in the championship now with all the cuts that would have had to been made. The lack of money in the game means that not getting promotion or being relegated can be disastrous but clubs will gamble their futures which isn’t good for stability.

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33 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

From what I remember about 2006 is that we pretty much went for broke to get promoted and if we had failed to get back at the first attempt in 2017 then we would probably still be in the championship now with all the cuts that would have had to been made. The lack of money in the game means that not getting promotion or being relegated can be disastrous but clubs will gamble their futures which isn’t good for stability.

Yes I think Widnes lost to Castleford in a Championship GF on the Sunday and were in administration the following week IIRC

Reading the Express article on Wakefield's finances they could be one relegation from administration also (or another Widnes/Bradford).

Edited by Scubby
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Just now, Scubby said:

Yes I think Widnes lost to Castleford in a Championship GF on the Sunday and were in administration the following week IIRC

Everybody knew before the game it was win or bust

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2 hours ago, Scubby said:

Yes I think Widnes lost to Castleford in a Championship GF on the Sunday and were in administration the following week IIRC

Reading the Express article on Wakefield's finances they could be one relegation from administration also (or another Widnes/Bradford).

What a great reason to keep a team in SL. If a team is barely strong enough to survive in SL with all the money that has been thrown at them then its probably in the interests of the sport to give another team a chance.

The problem always were with licensing that if you held a spot in the elite then you were virtually guarenteed to keep that spot despit not meeting criteria that other clubs had to achieve.

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17 hours ago, RayCee said:

The fact is there are pros and cons either way. Licencing has it’s good points and so does p/r. However, all sports are in the entertainment industry so while jeopardy adds theatre, so does players chancing their arm without fear does too. 

The problem is the sport is too poor to support two fully pro comps. The drop down in overall playing standard and cost wise is huge. For that reason alone, I'd like to see licencing introduced. 

Mind you chancing that arm doesn't always translate to entertainment... or maybe entertainment because of so many errors enables the opposition to look good scoring tries from easy possession or the poor play of the other team.

I like what Hull KR have did this season in getting to play offs and beating wire but some of the earlier games they chanced too much and showed poor quality play - wasn't great entertainment unless we want error strewn games.

The first half of the Hull KR v Wire play off was awful skill levels but I guess entertaining as both teams gifted opportunities.

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22 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

It is a real simply because the drop is too big.

It is like say Yorkshire CC got relegated from a competition funded like the County Championship to one like YCSPL or Leeds United from the Premiership to the National League in one go. 

That's it in a nutshell.

Promotion and relegation wouldn't be a problem if we had a vibrant, well-funded under-competition.

Unfortunately, at the moment, we're struggling to fund the top division.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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4 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes , ' pros ' for those IN SL , and ' cons ' for those OUT of SL 

Tell us what the ' pros ' are for clubs outside in a licensed competition ?

Leigh

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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3 minutes ago, RayCee said:

You need to ask?🙂

Look Ray I'm familiar with the Kiwi sense of humour having lived there 

But I don't see what context your reply was in ? , Taking the P ? , A genuine positive ? , Sorry just don't get it 

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8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

In what way ?

I noticed you are often doing short replies so thought I'd be on your wavelength. No offence intended.

With finances being squeezed, I can only see the playing standard gap between SL and the Championship widening. Leigh came in with less money than they should have received but even with a full share staying up would have been difficult.

Some teams at the lower end of SL are looking decidedly average yet put Leigh to the sword with little effort. I can see a yo-yo period coming up for newly promoted sides. Even Toulouse with a strong financial base are at risk of going straight back. P/R is meaningless, costly and puts clubs at financial risk if the gap between the divisions is too wide.

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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