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Toulouse imploding


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4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

They play Wakefield x3 and have to win at least 2 of those. Home wins targeting inconsistent clubs like Cas, Salford, Hull KR, Hull, Leeds are the only way for them to mount a challenge.

IMO they would need at least 8 wins to survive. Maybe more but less than 8 and it's curtains.

Yeah probably need 2 out of 3 vs wakefield and split with the other 5 (KR,  Salford, Cas,  Giants) and sneak a result against someone like Wigan. 

The longer they stay in it the stronger they will get.Even if they narrowly go down I still think there is life in the project. 

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5 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yeah probably need 2 out of 3 vs wakefield and split with the other 5 (KR,  Salford, Cas,  Giants) and sneak a result against someone like Wigan. 

The longer they stay in it the stronger they will get.Even if they narrowly go down I still think there is life in the project. 

I see similarities between how Danny Ward worked with (and galvanised) that London squad in 2019 and Houles with Toulouse.

They know they are outgunned but they only need to win one more game than one of the remaining 11 SL clubs.

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17 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I see similarities between how Danny Ward worked with (and galvanised) that London squad in 2019 and Houles with Toulouse.

They know they are outgunned but they only need to win one more game than one of the remaining 11 SL clubs.

Also as clubs lock playoff spots in towards end of season others may down tools and rotate which might help. 

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1 hour ago, dkw said:

It's embarrassing to see grown men act like that isn't it, actual adults.

They seem to think they're offering some clever insight when of course it is obvious to everyone that Toulouse are struggling. All you can ask is that they improve from week to week and there are signs they are doing that.

Anyone who has met or listened to Sylvain Houlès will know he isnt a guy who is going to throw himself off a bridge (or let his players do so) after one narrow disappointment. Then again, if your spiritual leader is Derek Beaumont I can see why you'd expect the toys to go straight out of the pram.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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The only current way a promoted side stays up is if a SL side implodes, TO would have been looking at Wakey and Salford to do that - Salford grabbed the 2 wins to breath so its Wakey or bust.

We either move the Championship season to finish in July at the latest or engage all in 2 x10's

TO would be far stronger in Y2

 

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8 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Wakey will target the games to win

Did Wakefield not try to win the last 4? 

I’m fairly sure Toulouse will also be targeting the Wakefield game as a win.

It’s a shame the game isn’t in Toulouse, Wakefield would then be without Fifita who seems to be their only threat.

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18 hours ago, Scubby said:

They play Wakefield x3 and have to win at least 2 of those. Home wins targeting inconsistent clubs like Cas, Salford, Hull KR, Hull, Leeds are the only way for them to mount a challenge.

IMO they would need at least 8 wins to survive. Maybe more but less than 8 and it's curtains.

Yes it can be interesting, but what would we be talking about now Scubby if like some people say they want TO and Catalan locked in and protected from relegation, the talk would be wondering which other club may get relegated even if they perform better throughout the season, that cannot be right.

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18 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Also as clubs lock playoff spots in towards end of season others may down tools and rotate which might help. 

As Saints did with London twice, and very nearly gave them an escape route, what Saints did was nothing wrong by the book but if one of the other 3 contenders for the drop had been relegated instead of London I am very sure we would have heard a lot about it, as it turned out it didn't matter.

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30 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

As Saints did with London twice, and very nearly gave them an escape route, what Saints did was nothing wrong by the book but if one of the other 3 contenders for the drop had been relegated instead of London I am very sure we would have heard a lot about it, as it turned out it didn't matter.

Other clubs rested players during the season,London weren’t “given” anything.

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32 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

but if one of the other 3 contenders for the drop had been relegated instead of London I am very sure we would have heard a lot about it, as it turned out it didn't matter.

Mainly from you wanging on about it.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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14 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Other clubs rested players during the season,London weren’t “given” anything.

Other than two home wins against far and way the best side’s reserves. 

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7 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Other than two home wins against far and way the best side’s reserves. 

And again other teams that season rested players,every season the Challenge Cup finalists do it either the week before or week after the final,teams already in the play offs do it regularly.

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23 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Other clubs rested players during the season,London weren’t “given” anything.

Quite right London still had to win those games Dav, but with hand on heart can you tell me that Saints did not make it easier for them had they not filled the team with 'fringe's player's.

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

And again other teams that season rested players,every season the Challenge Cup finalists do it either the week before or week after the final,teams already in the play offs do it regularly.

Is that when Saints played and sent those teams to London?

Edited by Harry Stottle
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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes it can be interesting, but what would we be talking about now Scubby if like some people say they want TO and Catalan locked in and protected from relegation, the talk would be wondering which other club may get relegated even if they perform better throughout the season, that cannot be right.

I think Toulouse being locked in is too simplistic. You have to decide how many UK clubs you want involved in the top competition and how many non-UK (French etc.) Then any replacement is like for like.

IMO there should be a 14-team competition which includes 12 UK clubs and 2 French clubs. Given those numbers are fixed, a French club can only be replaced by another French/Other club and a UK one a UK club. How you replace those clubs (e.g. one year, two-year relegations, licensing or whatever) is up to the competition as a whole.

At the moment it is like trading places and is just a money pit, we have an opportunity at this point in time for 12 full time UK clubs with good structures. It makes sense to expand to 14.

Outside those 12 it is more complex, with part time, basket case clubs and clubs aspiring to be ready in 3-5 years. Just chucking Halifax and Batley up to completely fail because they unexpectedly won a couple of play off games is absolute nuts! They are miles and miles from being SL clubs

Edited by Scubby
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London beating Saints reserves twice is an absolute myth. It is made up and repeated as truth.

Here is one of those Saints reserves teams -

Welsby, Swift, Naiqama, Percival, Grace, Fages, Richardson, Thompson, Roby, Lees, Peyroux, Paulo, Knowles: LMS, Amor, Ashworth, Costello

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes it can be interesting, but what would we be talking about now Scubby if like some people say they want TO and Catalan locked in and protected from relegation, the talk would be wondering which other club may get relegated even if they perform better throughout the season, that cannot be right.

So we can look forward to which part time club who will be even more ill prepared than TO to be cannon fodder next year meanwhile restricting the games footprint and growth? 

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Just now, Omott91 said:

So we can look forward to which part time club who will be even more ill prepared than TO to be cannon fodder next year meanwhile restricting the games footprint and growth? 

So the acceptance that TO are cannon fodder is OK other than another club being cannon fodder.

FWIW, in no way am I against any team whoever they are and wherever the come from being in SL, but I will say in a competitive league structure where P&R is employed firstly they need to prove their worth by winning the right to be there, and secondly by gaining enough points over the season to stay there.

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22 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So the acceptance that TO are cannon fodder is OK other than another club being cannon fodder.

FWIW, in no way am I against any team whoever they are and wherever the come from being in SL, but I will say in a competitive league structure where P&R is employed firstly they need to prove their worth by winning the right to be there, and secondly by gaining enough points over the season to stay there.

Collectively over the last five years TO, Fev and Leigh have probably spent in the region of £10-20m and currently have zero security. Toulouse have spent millions on flights for part-time clubs - what a waste.

Leigh have a wonderful owner who has spent a fortune going round and round in circles - he must have been quietly seething that only 2-3k bother turning up for his newly assembled team.

Imagine if he could continue to invest and actually offer solid NRL players 2-3 years security rather than half-baked break-claused contracts. If Fev get away from Leigh this season, some of those players are probably busy lining up contracts elsewhere as opposed to fighting hard trying to win promotion. Players look after themselves first.

Same with Jacks and Leulia at Rovers. The more they find out about the English game the more they will want to go somewhere where they have security.

Edited by Scubby
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51 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Is that when Saints played and sent those teams to London?

I don’t know & really don’t care,I’m not the one who has a problem with those 2 games.

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

As Saints did with London twice, and very nearly gave them an escape route, what Saints did was nothing wrong by the book but if one of the other 3 contenders for the drop had been relegated instead of London I am very sure we would have heard a lot about it, as it turned out it didn't matter.

Meh.  If Saints get enough points on the board to rotate the squad fine,  not their job to bail out others.  Catalan were supposed to gift wire two points this weekend. 

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55 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Quite right London still had to win those games Dav, but with hand on heart can you tell me that Saints did not make it easier for them had they not filled the team with 'fringe's player's.

 

 

 

 

 

And do other clubs who have rested players on numerous occasions  not make it easier for their opponents ?

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13 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So the acceptance that TO are cannon fodder is OK other than another club being cannon fodder.

FWIW, in no way am I against any team whoever they are and wherever the come from being in SL, but I will say in a competitive league structure where P&R is employed firstly they need to prove their worth by winning the right to be there, and secondly by gaining enough points over the season to stay there.

A company expands into a new market, its` set up costs are high, and sales are low,  therefore its` profits are low. It doesn`t abandon and retreat from that market after one year because it may not be as profitable as traditional markets. To do so would be sheer folly and a waste of valuable investment dollars.

Businesses do it all the time and they`ll have a certain time frame in mind, certainly more than one year, to reap the rewards from that investment.

You have to think of it like a business, otherwise you will go around and around in ever diminishing circles while rivals chip away at your market. Consumers like choice and a variety of product, while it is natural through over familiarity and encroachment by other products to lose share in your own market, you must be willing to search out new markets to compensate for loss of sales. Enter France.

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35 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So the acceptance that TO are cannon fodder is OK other than another club being cannon fodder.

FWIW, in no way am I against any team whoever they are and wherever the come from being in SL, but I will say in a competitive league structure where P&R is employed firstly they need to prove their worth by winning the right to be there, and secondly by gaining enough points over the season to stay there.

Plus we need to think larger than the club.  Tv is down, now maybe we get it back to 30 mil but really Tv money for our current product has peaked. 

What is the market we can grow which is untapped? Internationals. Leigh cannot play England Bradford cant play England but France can. 

Building two extra internationals a year or as part of a tourney on FTA suddenly offers a possibility of getting England to a position of annually having 4 internacionals and commercially boosting the sport  (vía sponsors,  hospitality etc).

So having Toulouse  and Cat locked in really isnt about those teams  (although an all French derby goes a long way marketing wise of erasing this northern sport nonsense label union likes to dump on it)

However, I dont want to kneecap off clubs in Champ from dreaming and look at how our crowds  (amazed myself how champ recovered this year) would be destroyed by franchising. Champ is great this year for race to playoffs, Fax making Fev look beatable. 

So 14 in with French locked in treats the French clubs for what they are  (Yes different and special) whilst allowing the rest of us to dream. 

We certainly have 12 uk clubs with the infrastructure  (or in case of Wakey moving towards it) for this to work. 

 

 

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