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Refereeing meeting today - all change!


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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

If the punishment is focused on keeping the game the offence occurs in even - because, again, we have a game-wide flinch any time we fall short of a match being a classic - then it's heading in that direction.

That ignores what the Refs are there to do. They facilitate a game taking place, managing any incidents they have to, and taking appropriate action. They aren't punishment only figures. 

The action they have been taking (as directed from on high) has been deemed inappropriate and they are seeking to re-adjust. That is fine. 

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That ignores what the Refs are there to do. They facilitate a game taking place, managing any incidents they have to, and taking appropriate action. They aren't punishment only figures. 

The action they have been taking (as directed from on high) has been deemed inappropriate and they are seeking to re-adjust. That is fine. 

Yes, we have a fairly fundamental difference in approach here.

You're happy that foul play is mostly exclusively dealt with in a meaningful way after the match because the spectacle is the most important thing.

I'm not.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The messaging in that is rubbish. How that is explained is amateur to say the least. 

The issue here is a small number of yellow cards that were harsh. They should be the focus. 

I haven't seen a red card that should have been yellow this year, and the amount of bans dished out suggests we could have seen more reds. 

Connor Wynne, dangerous tackle on Jack Welsby shouldn't have even been a penalty, Jake Connor on Lee Gaskell was high but never a red and I can't remember which game it was when a player got a red card after the full back collected the ball and as he was going to be creamed he collapsed himself resulting in the defender catching him with his chest, back in the day that would have been closer to a voluntary tackle than a foul.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

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I think there has been a lot of people forget what the referees and disciplinary system is meant to do. Or at least, they seem to want it to do something different.

Starting from the lowest tier:

Penalty, 

Yellow Card,

Red Card,

Bans.

These should build up, currently they aren't. Yellow cards seem to be automatic bans (which are in effect red cards at the start of games). A red card being given isn't taken into account in the ban. 

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16 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Fighting through the adverts……

Referees will look to show more caution when brandishing cards after the RFL’s disciplinary chiefs met Super League head coaches for urgent talks about the state of the game.

The start to the new season has been dominated by the governing body’s crackdown on foul play with a vast swath of yellow and red cards in the opening six rounds. Although supporting the RFL’s bid to reduce injuries and clean up the sport, coaches and players alike have felt they have gone too far with many fans also becoming increasingly disillusioned.

What may before have warranted a penalty has now, in 2022, often seen sin-binnings or even dismissals. Coaches have become increasingly vocal about how the heavy-handed use of cards is ruining the spectacle of the sport. However, they held positive talks with RFL’s match review panel chief Paul Cullen, head of match officials Steve Ganson and director of operations and legal Robert Hicks for over an hour on Wednesday to discuss the hot topic.

The Daily Mirror understands that, especially after Mahe Fonua’s farcical yellow card for Castleford last Thursday, all parties agreed it is crucial for the sport’s image that more games, if at all possible, see 13 v 13. Although coaches have been reminded of the need for continued work on players’ tackle technique, from hereon in, some downgrading on on-field offences will come into play. 

For example, if referees feel a foul could warrant a yellow card or a penalty, they will err on the side of caution and award a penalty. Likewise, where there is doubt between red and yellow, officials will be encouraged to show yellow in a bid to dampen the furore.

It is understood there was plenty of common ground met during the meeting as both parties sought to find a positive way forward and it was noted that many players have already adjusted to the changes made in the off-season.l  my

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/super-league-referees-start-erring-26549811

Consulting coaches about action on foul play. 

Well that’s as about as ridiculous as it gets… unless of course the decisions being made are even more ridiculous.

RFL should tell the coaches to rack off.

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5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes, we have a fairly fundamental difference in approach here.

You're happy that foul play is mostly exclusively dealt with in a meaningful way after the match because the spectacle is the most important thing.

I'm not.

Not at all, I'd rather foul play was punished appropriately. Penalties, Yellow Cards, Red Cards and Bans should be given where appropriate.

You want an accelerated punishment system to be applied. That is fine. Shoot first ask questions later. It is a sensible approach for a sport with a looming litigation case.

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17 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes, we have a fairly fundamental difference in approach here.

You're happy that foul play is mostly exclusively dealt with in a meaningful way after the match because the spectacle is the most important thing.

I'm not.

Yep nothing like a blatant red card put on report. Offending player scores winning try and then gets a 4 match ban in the week on review.

That is fairness and a great spectacle right there.

Edited by Scubby
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6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Not at all, I'd rather foul play was punished appropriately. Penalties, Yellow Cards, Red Cards and Bans should be given where appropriate.

You want an accelerated punishment system to be applied. That is fine. Shoot first ask questions later. It is a sensible approach for a sport with a looming litigation case.

The litigation is (to me) irrelevant. I've always preferred foul play being dealt with on the day first and foremost.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, Scubby said:

That is fairness and a great spectacle right there.

Look, the fans want both sides at full strength.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, gingerjon said:

Look, the fans want both sides at full strength.

Yep I'm sure all the fans wanted Will Pryce to get his comeuppance in the week while staying on the field and sparking a Huddersfield comeback! 

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Just now, Scubby said:

Yep I'm sure all the fans wanted Will Pryce to get his comeuppance in the week while staying on the field and sparking a Huddersfield comeback! 

Just how it has to be, I'm afraid. There's this loud journo who thinks every game has to finish 13v13 so what can you do?

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Just how it has to be, I'm afraid. There's this loud journo who thinks every game has to finish 13v13 so what can you do?

We could extend this idea into society by putting all shoplifters on report and allowing them to finish their shopping?

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1 minute ago, Scubby said:

We could extend this idea into society by putting all shoplifters on report and allowing them to finish their shopping?

Sensible policies for a better Britain.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The litigation is (to me) irrelevant. I've always preferred foul play being dealt with on the day first and foremost.

Absolutely, totally agree. The exercise of appropriate punishment for foul play is best done in a match.

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Or we could take a balanced view and agree that a red card is given when appropriate, a yellow where that's appropriate and a penalty if that is deemed sufficient.

No-one has claimed, in this thread or any other, that no card should ever be given, merely that this season, they have been given more readily than previously.  The RFL have looked at it, they agree this to be the case and things will settle back to more like how they were last season.

I really don't understand the need for hyperbole that some posters leap for at the first disagreement with their opinion.  No-one is advocating a complete absence of on-field punishment for foul-play, why pretend they are?

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7 minutes ago, Tubby said:

Or we could take a balanced view and agree that a red card is given when appropriate, a yellow where that's appropriate and a penalty if that is deemed sufficient.

No-one has claimed, in this thread or any other, that no card should ever be given, merely that this season, they have been given more readily than previously.  The RFL have looked at it, they agree this to be the case and things will settle back to more like how they were last season.

I really don't understand the need for hyperbole that some posters leap for at the first disagreement with their opinion.  No-one is advocating a complete absence of on-field punishment for foul-play, why pretend they are?

I agree with you about hyperbole. And yet if official press releases are going out saying we are going to downgrade punishments by one rung just because clubs and Gaz on Twitter got upset about too many cards, maybe the hyperbole is not misplaced?

A few of the cards on field (e.g. Fonua) have been OTT and so have some of bans (e.g. Charnley). The vast majority of decisions have been correct. It would have been far better to give the people making the poor decisions a bollocking behind the scenes than whatever this 'baby out with the bathwater' thing is.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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1 minute ago, Just Browny said:

I agree with you about hyperbole. And yet if official press releases are going out saying we are going to downgrade punishments by one rung just because clubs and Gaz on Twitter got upset about too many cards, maybe the hyperbole is not misplaced?

A few of the cards on field (e.g. Fonua) have been OTT and so have some of bans (e.g. Charnley). The vast majority of decisions have been correct. It would have been far better to give the people making the poor decisions a bollocking behind the scenes than whatever this 'baby out with the bathwater' thing is.

Not much to disagre with there mate.  The RFL do occasionally manage things less than well.

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51 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Consulting coaches about action on foul play. 

Well that’s as about as ridiculous as it gets… unless of course the decisions being made are even more ridiculous.

RFL should tell the coaches to rack off.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

Maybe we will get an official statement from the RFL, maybe not.  It would be good to see something from Ganson and also from SL/RFL considering everyone is ‘aligned’ now.

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How about they stop micromanaging Referees to within an inch of their lives, let them control games with their own common sense within the rules, allow them to make mistakes without fear of being downgraded constantly by assessors....

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1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

Consulting coaches about action on foul play. 

Well that’s as about as ridiculous as it gets… unless of course the decisions being made are even more ridiculous.

RFL should tell the coaches to rack off.

I think the coaches are fully behind making the game less dangerous to play.The fact is some tackles end up being unintentionally dangerous. It seems an adjustment in interpretation has been called for and accepted. To blame coaches is ridiculous, they do not want to lose players from injury any more than from suspension.

As a game it is vitaly important that the disciplinary side takes the rest of us with it and some of the decisions recently have been poor. The match review panel under Cullen has been looking at instances of suspected foul play and deciding what was in a players mind

 

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2 hours ago, Marauder said:

Connor Wynne, dangerous tackle on Jack Welsby shouldn't have even been a penalty, Jake Connor on Lee Gaskell was high but never a red and I can't remember which game it was when a player got a red card after the full back collected the ball and as he was going to be creamed he collapsed himself resulting in the defender catching him with his chest, back in the day that would have been closer to a voluntary tackle than a foul.

The only one of those three that were red was Connor, and I think he picked up a ban. 

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1 hour ago, Just Browny said:

I agree with you about hyperbole. And yet if official press releases are going out saying we are going to downgrade punishments by one rung just because clubs and Gaz on Twitter got upset about too many cards, maybe the hyperbole is not misplaced?

A few of the cards on field (e.g. Fonua) have been OTT and so have some of bans (e.g. Charnley). The vast majority of decisions have been correct. It would have been far better to give the people making the poor decisions a bollocking behind the scenes than whatever this 'baby out with the bathwater' thing is.

Your 2nd para aligns with my view exactly. 

I keep making this point, the stall was set out in the opening weekend when some Leeds fans and Hetherington acted hysterically about Bentley getting a red card. 

It hasn't calmed down since all those sponsors and past players called Hetherington to complain that the game is dead. 

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