Newcastle Thunder

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

As a big city with an established professional club which is just outside the heartlands, surely the RFL sees the potential for junior development.

How many junior clubs are the currently in Sheffield?

The Rugby League do actually see the benefits that a big city can lend into by having an academy, but that is not Sheffield it is for London and Newcastle can you see the connection that these two are situated far enough from the heartlands so as not to stand on the toes of the big boys..

[JM2010]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

The Rugby League do actually see the benefits that a big city can lend into by having an academy, but that is not Sheffield it is for London and Newcastle can you see the connection that these two are situated far enough from the heartlands so as not to stand on the toes of the big boys..

I'm not really talking about Sheffield being given an academy licence. I meant that the RFL could target Sheffield and South Yorkshire to increase the amount of junior clubs

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

But this is the poin, they haven't those talented youth players will still sign for the same top clubs, whether Sheffield had a youth system or not.

Eagles don't benefit from great players in Sheffield, just as Widnes dont benefit from great players in Widnes and one if the reasons they dropped their academy. Essentially all your doing is costing these clubs by making them fund a youth system which has the 5th, 6th and potentially 10th pick of talented youth.

This is a result of the system not the clubs or licenses.

It also weakens the community game.

So on the surface it may appear these teams are at a disadvantage but in reality it could help. They can still runs grade two academys and probably attract the same players 

I don't know the details of individual clubs BTW, so happy to be corrected on specifics, I'm being general about the way the system works.

Then you have the issue of the salary cap benefits helping those same top teams who get to pick the best talent. And so the system favours those top teams.

Nobody is making any club have an academy you have produced that from thin air, but if a club wants one, can prove they can finance it then why should they be denied it?

You say you don't know the details of individual clubs, last year Wigan for their scholarship draft chose to take 8 lads from Leigh, and only 2 from Wigan, if Leigh had an academy some of those lads may have chosen to stay at home and who knows how many may have followed them?

Yes the system does favour the top teams, is it designed as a way of keeping them at the top and bolux to the rest, yes I think it is. Take last night if Saints had no academy they would have been forced to play the players everyone agrees that need a rest, so they are allowed to ship in the academy lads, maybe Leigh, Fev, Fax whoever prior a big game wanted to rest many of their squad they can't have that luxury.

[Harry Stottle]

50 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Agree but I prefer JM2010s point of junior clubs, that's were the initially engagement and development comes from, an academy without juniors to recruit from doesn't really benefit anyone. But junior clubs definitely do

David, the big clubs go fishing everywhere RL is played not just from the junior clubs in their area but all over the heartlands.

[Scubby]

Glad this thread has really explored Newcastle Thunder's situation in depth and not degenerated into another Fev/Leigh fart off.

[Harry Stottle]

16 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I'm not really talking about Sheffield being given an academy licence. I meant that the RFL could target Sheffield and South Yorkshire to increase the amount of junior clubs

There was a poster only today who said that Newcastle are putting a lot of emphasis on their academy within their locallity, that lads can see a positive direction and an opportunity to further themselves in a professional enviroment, if Newcastle had no Academy as Sheffied don't non of that would make any sense.

[JM2010]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

There was a poster only today who said that Newcastle are putting a lot of emphasis on their academy within their locallity, that lads can see a positive direction and an opportunity to further themselves in a professional enviroment, if Newcastle had no Academy as Sheffied don't non of that would make any sense.

Even if Sheffield had an academy the best players would sign for Leeds, Wigan etc. I was talking more about how the RFL can get more juniors playing RL to increase the player pool. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, JM2010 said:

Even if Sheffield had an academy the best players would sign for Leeds, Wigan etc. I was talking more about how the RFL can get more juniors playing RL to increase the player pool. 

To sign for Wigan, Leeds etc? 

[JM2010]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

To sign for Wigan, Leeds etc? 

For anyone really. I'm thinking more about the whole game of RL rather than individual clubs. 

[David Dockhouse Host]

34 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

David, the big clubs go fishing everywhere RL is played not just from the junior clubs in their area but all over the heartlands.

Yep, I know and that's my point, they take the best from everywhere, leaving the likes of Leigh should they have one to take the rest which really doesn't help Leigh.

If they were to fund it themselves and still wish to run one it still an issue as it reduces the players in the community game and age groups close down. So these who want to play but may not be the best and don't mind have nobody to play.

It's seems quite simple to say more academies will mean more players but it actually reduces players according to my own experience, some with a desire to play professional don't get an offer at 14 sometimes drop out as they lose motivation. 

Newcastle is a little different as they don't have years of experience which can be an advantage, almost like starting with a clean sheet.  They also don't have any competition for players in the same way as clubs on top of each other.

I'm not sure there's a perfect solution, each alternative has its benefits and flaws, I would however like to explore the opportunity of regional or district academies or scholarships to help even out the talent, keep as many kids playing as possible and benefit all clubs equally.

Newcastle work hard on the community game, do Sheffield do the same?

[tim2]

54 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Newcastle work hard on the community game, do Sheffield do the same?

They have funded a development officer (with help from the Council and RFL)

https://www.sheffieldeagles.com/Eagles-News/article/andrea-dobson-rugby-development/

The problem is that this needs 5-10 years investment, but will probably be pulled due to the lack of funding before then. We had a scheme in the Midlands that funded multiple dev officers 10 years ago - this generated a number of Super League and Championship level players, and helped boost Cov Bears (now Midlands Hurricanes) as they navigated their path to the pro game. All of it disappeared overnight and the whole thing fizzled out. Sheffield / South Yorks has the same issue. Eddie Battye is probably the best example of Sheffield's development, coming through from the Hillsborough club to Super League.

[Blind side johnny]

3 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

They have a new stadium in a population of 500,000 minimum.  Money the RFL puts in there will have a clear ROI and greater potential. 

Theres probably an arguement for disconnecting the RFL academy funding from clubs tbh. 

Of course, the simple existence of academies is of no value whatsoever to junior clubs so it would be incorrect to connect the two as benefiting mutually.

[David Dockhouse Host]

33 minutes ago, tim2 said:

They have funded a development officer (with help from the Council and RFL)

https://www.sheffieldeagles.com/Eagles-News/article/andrea-dobson-rugby-development/

The problem is that this needs 5-10 years investment, but will probably be pulled due to the lack of funding before then. We had a scheme in the Midlands that funded multiple dev officers 10 years ago - this generated a number of Super League and Championship level players, and helped boost Cov Bears (now Midlands Hurricanes) as they navigated their path to the pro game. All of it disappeared overnight and the whole thing fizzled out. Sheffield / South Yorks has the same issue. Eddie Battye is probably the best example of Sheffield's development, coming through from the Hillsborough club to Super League.

Great, yes I'm a fan of the development officer roles. Was interested myself but the pay was around 20k.

Even at that salary with usual add on's if we said £30k a role, 10 staff across RL would be £300k and then the additional HR to sort etc. It's a lot of money for the RFL to fund

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, JM2010 said:

I'm not really talking about Sheffield being given an academy licence. I meant that the RFL could target Sheffield and South Yorkshire to increase the amount of junior clubs

They should be targeting everywhere for new clubs , heartland and new area's 

[David Dockhouse Host]

13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

They should be targeting everywhere for new clubs , heartland and new area's 

Some of the heartlands have very good established community clubs and probably don't need more.

Further investment into existing clubs yes, but new clubs were there aren't any at the moment but have potential to provide enough players and staff to sustain a club 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Some of the heartlands have very good established community clubs and probably don't need more.

Further investment into existing clubs yes, but new clubs were there aren't any at the moment but have potential to provide enough players and staff to sustain a club 

More clubs and more kids playing anywhere is better than less clubs and less kids 

[David Dockhouse Host]

9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

More clubs and more kids playing anywhere is better than less clubs and less kids 

If they were needed and assuming more clubs equals more kids playing which it doesn't always,  why create clubs in a saturated market? If there's no kids to play there or they are just taken from a other club your not using your resources wisely 

If there are 100s of kids wanting to play but no places in current clubs then maybe, but in the heartlands I don't see that IME.

 

[Phil W]

Have posted a couple of times today on the Thunder party of the site and on the Championship thread for this weekend. We are struggling at the moment, our younger players are getting a lot more game time due to injuries. But we have to be patient with things as frustrating as things are.

If you guys want to come and check out what's going on at Thunder appreciate some people might be coming to Magic. We're playing Bradford at home on the Friday night and yesterday it was announced the game will be in partnership with Northern Pride promoting inclusivity. The club have said we're going to look to break our attendance record of 6,631 for that game and there will be a special ticket offer for those attending Magic Weekend and Northern Pride. 

[DoubleD]

15 hours ago, Phil W said:

Have posted a couple of times today on the Thunder party of the site and on the Championship thread for this weekend. We are struggling at the moment, our younger players are getting a lot more game time due to injuries. But we have to be patient with things as frustrating as things are.

If you guys want to come and check out what's going on at Thunder appreciate some people might be coming to Magic. We're playing Bradford at home on the Friday night and yesterday it was announced the game will be in partnership with Northern Pride promoting inclusivity. The club have said we're going to look to break our attendance record of 6,631 for that game and there will be a special ticket offer for those attending Magic Weekend and Northern Pride. 

Interested in getting a local’s thoughts………To me the Thunder seem run like an old boys club with Betts and O’Carroll. That would seem the root cause of the problem to me but would be interested to hear a perspective of someone closer to it

[JM2010]

I think the real key to success for Newcastle lies with their academy and local junior development. If they can keep increasing the amount of junior clubs in the NE and develop them through their academy into a full time environment then they should hopefully build a strong first team squad.

The distance they are from the heartlands should help them retain a lot of their promising youngsters and not have them poached by the bigger clubs which is a problem that a lot of the clubs in the heartlands face

[Phil W]

8 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Interested in getting a local’s thoughts………To me the Thunder seem run like an old boys club with Betts and O’Carroll. That would seem the root cause of the problem to me but would be interested to hear a perspective of someone closer to it

It's really difficult to judge to be honest, think we all accepted last season would be difficult given initially we expected to be in League One. This season hasn't been helped by injuries but i'll judge things at the end of the season in terms of league position. 

[welshmagpie]

7 minutes ago, Phil W said:

It's really difficult to judge to be honest, think we all accepted last season would be difficult given initially we expected to be in League One. This season hasn't been helped by injuries but i'll judge things at the end of the season in terms of league position. 

Who are your major absentees? Are Ta’ai and Matt Wright still at the club?

[Phil W]

At the moment we're missing Ta'ai, Woods, Mullen, Foster, Chapelhow and  Dee through injury. Plus Halsall, Miski and O'Neill who have been in the squad on dual registration have been in the Wigan squad after playing against Widnes. Throw in Hallas going back to Bradford, Minns to Wakefield and Trout to Featherstone who haven't really been replaced there's a lot of experience. 

Think next season we need to have a bit more depth in the squad.

Wright isn't with us anymore.

[nadera78]

16 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Interested in getting a local’s thoughts………To me the Thunder seem run like an old boys club with Betts and O’Carroll. That would seem the root cause of the problem to me but would be interested to hear a perspective of someone closer to it

Hmm. I was thinking along similar lines. I'm a very long way from Newcastle, and it's not my club, but Betts is one of those figures I've never really rated and yet he continues to find employment.

[ThunderLeague]

Come on guys. We've been missing major players since the season began going into every game not knowing what the team is going to be!! Bans at the start didn't help when the rfl were dishing them out for a tickle

 

Currently have 1234 7 11 13 missing!! Add tai and chapelhow replacements. Lack of getting players on DR from Wigan each week and costello who has had one game and went back to Salford to fill in for their injuries. We are basically playing young inexperienced lads and some players from last year. We expect another pasting v fax. Until we get a starting 13 then we will struggle but luck is not going our way at all!! Been hit so bad and nobody brought in of statue unlike sheff and barrow who are better on paper.