Can IMG make Rugby League into a more successful sport?

[idrewthehaggis]

42 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Who said anything about cross-division games? The original proposal, if I remember correctly, was playing each team in your division three times. 

So did I Jug, added with possible group stages for the Challenge Cup and a thought about a nines tournament. and something vague about playing NRL clubs. There was that interview Rimmer did last year.

It has been debated to death on here and the general opinion is 10 plus 10 is divisive and unsustainable.

Worse of course would be IMG's suggestion for EuroLeague with half the league on a permanent no relegation license and the rest on demotion watch. Imagine how that would go down. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by idrewthehaggis

[Jughead]

1 minute ago, idrewthehaggis said:

So did I Jug, added with possible group stages for the Challenge Cup and a thought about a nines tournament. 

It has been debated to death on here and the general opinion is 10 plus 10 is ######.

Worse of course would be IMG's suggestion for EuroLeague with half the league on a permanent no relegation license and the rest on demotion watch. Imagine how that would go down. 

Again, that (the Basketball structure) isn’t IMG’s suggestion for Rugby League. That is people here putting two and two together and running with it. 

[Harry Stottle]

12 minutes ago, RP London said:

Can i make a suggestion that we leave the 2 x 10 alone? it seems to be no more than a rumour and it was done to death on one of the other off season madness threads about yet another restructure? 

we can always pick it back up if it is announced as even under consideration but as yet it seems no more than the figment of someone's over active imagination.

Agree, but the curiosity of the change - if indeed we do get any - cannot come soon enough.

 

[Jughead]

11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Really, I honestly haven't heard that Juggy, the emphasis as been this type of conference system inter-division games, but happy to be corrected.

By the way, does anyone want this guaranteed 3 games plus any other additional fixtures, cup draws etc?

I’m pretty sure the proposal that was rejected at the end of last year was playing everyone three times, which is as appetising as cross-division games. 

[Harry Stottle]

Should my club Leigh and Fev be fearful of any structural change being so close to some bigger neighbours?

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I’m pretty sure the proposal that was rejected at the end of last year was playing everyone three times, which is as appetising as cross-division games. 

Yes both are quite a grim prospect.

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Agree, but the curiosity of the change - if indeed we do get any - cannot come soon enough.

 

My gut feeling is that it is a way off.. IMG seem to be doing things professionally and taking their time. They've announced their "easy to do" bit as they already have the set up for it but the rest will be investigated properly.. I really hope thats the case anyway. 

Reading a bit about what they did with basketball seems to show that they are not too knee jerky and they do look into things properly. Its not been that controversial in the end either from what I can tell and seems to work. 

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, steve oates said:

You tell me how they will up participation, up the crowds and up the TV deals.

What is this secret power IMG have??

Re-read the post you responded to.

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Should my club Leigh and Fev be fearful of any structural change being so close to some bigger neighbours?

can we not go back round that loop either please... surely that will all depend on what their strategic vision comes out as, what their research shows and (possible most importantly) what the structure looks like and numbers... until we know any of that its just going to be another round of conjecture and club/person bashing which has been done to death in the off season and has continued on on a few threads already going.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, RP London said:

can we not go back round that loop either please... surely that will all depend on what their strategic vision comes out as, what their research shows and (possible most importantly) what the structure looks like and numbers... until we know any of that its just going to be another round of conjecture and club/person bashing which has been done to death in the off season and has continued on on a few threads already going.

I am well aware that IMG have to give everything a good dose of looking at RP, but I doubt that we need to know anything, I should imagine they will give a decision on structural change or maybe even leave well be then tell us the reasons after the event.

I must have missed the debate on the direct question I asked, I suppose people will either ignore or answer it as best they please.

[gingerjon]

11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Should my club Leigh and Fev be fearful of any structural change being so close to some bigger neighbours?

The only thing to fear is fear itself

[redjonn]

14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The only thing to fear is fear itself

the full quote as distinct and needed for context is:

 “So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.”

So one would interpret his words  as  “do not have inappropriate fear.” as distinct from "do not have any fear".

So its irrational fear... thus those with concerns and fears may well have fears that are not irrational.

Edited July 14, 2022 by redjonn

[RP London]

14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I am well aware that IMG have to give everything a good dose of looking at RP, but I doubt that we need to know anything, I should imagine they will give a decision on structural change or maybe even leave well be then tell us the reasons after the event.

I must have missed the debate on the direct question I asked, I suppose people will either ignore or answer it as best they please.

They are both ALWAYS discussed around any structural change because the same people always bring them up, for good or ill. to say you have missed them is rubbish you are always in them.. so far there is no structural change announced, so how can they have anything to fear about the status quo, and your "direct question" has been asked on almost every restructure thread. There is no specific structure to discuss so we would, yet again, see this thread like so many others descend into wrangling about P&R v Licensing or what structure there should be so that we can then see if either should be worried.... would yet again see the thread get locked 

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, redjonn said:

the full quote as distinct and needed for context is:

 “So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.”

So one would interpret his words  as  “do not have inappropriate fear.” as distinct from "do not have any fear".

So its irrational fear... thus those with concerns and fears may well have fears that are not irrational.

Thanks for that. I knew it was part of a wider quote but had never thought to seek it out.

Right now, we can, I think, legitimately have worries about what direction is going to be suggested. Some of those may be because (for example) we are supporters of heartland clubs who think that they will miss out because grrrr expansion or (for example) because we live nowhere near the contracting footprint of rugby league and would like to see some effort put into growing again but believe that, actually, the 'easy' option will be chosen.

I think it's a bit too early for 'fear' given we have no idea what is going to be proposed, let alone enacted.

[redjonn]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Thanks for that. I knew it was part of a wider quote but had never thought to seek it out.

Right now, we can, I think, legitimately have worries about what direction is going to be suggested. Some of those may be because (for example) we are supporters of heartland clubs who think that they will miss out because grrrr expansion or (for example) because we live nowhere near the contracting footprint of rugby league and would like to see some effort put into growing again but believe that, actually, the 'easy' option will be chosen.

I think it's a bit too early for 'fear' given we have no idea what is going to be proposed, let alone enacted.

Yep. I agree....  but the fear is an underlying emotion of people wanting RL to be more successful but are concerned what solutions are sought... That is as far as I can see and whether we agree or not with whatever solutions may be suggested we all want a positive future for the game we enjoy or maybe say we love.

 

 

[Pulga]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Should my club Leigh and Fev be fearful of any structural change being so close to some bigger neighbours?

If they're serious they shouldn't be let anywhere near the top flight.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Pulga

[Dave T]

6 hours ago, steve oates said:

You tell me how they will up participation, up the crowds and up the TV deals.

What is this secret power IMG have??

Steve, this isn't how it works. You are pretty much ignoring the contributions of almost every poster on this thread and just pop up and repeat "tell me what IMG will do" like the loudmouth drunk in the pub who has been dozing for the last hour and missed the chat. 

RL is nowhere near maximising it's potential, we have a poor leadership team with a non- existent CEO, a diminishing panel of partners, we have a national team that plays hardly any games (but gets plenty interest when it does play major games), we have comps that need freshening up, we have flexibility for new comps and formats, we have poor digital offerings, lacklustre broadcasting coverage, appalling streaming platforms, muddled strategy on Academies, dwindling participation. 

If you can't see that things could be done better then I can't help you. But it's not my job, or anyone else here to pander to your aggressive demands for detail on somebody else's plan. 

If you see no growth in RL, that's fine, it's your view and valid. If I felt that, I wouldn't bother spending time chatting on a growth thread on an RL forum. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Dave T

[fighting irish]

I imagine, IMG will be looking for some way to re-present the game to new and old spectators alike.

Tinkering with the Super League structure may make sense but it can't (and never will) be a complete solution.

I expect that they may propose the introduction of short form games (9's) which provides a new product to draw in newcomers (viewers and players and backers).

Also, of course, regular International matches, offer another new, fresh high quality ''product'', serving up ultra competitive games, with enormous potential to draw in many new people.

I hope (and expect) that they will sharpen the presentation of all our output, making it look and sound fresher, lively and exciting in order to strike a chord, with the younger generation and deliver their message to many many more people than we have managed to reach up to now.

I don't know that IMG will have a part in what I'm about to say next but the game (the amateur game) must grasp the nettle, nationwide and institute development programmes, similar to the North East (and Wales) in order to ensure the game halts the recent decline and begins to spread, grow and consolidate right across the country.

I just don't accept that Rugby League can't be ''sold'' into new areas, because all the young people in this country are already committed to Soccer, Cricket or RaRa. That's just eyewash.

We don't need a fortune to do it either, we just need leadership (to create the plan) and the will to carry it out.

Ask Romeo Monteith, from Jamaica, the chaps in Ghana or Nigeria, and Serbia and everywhere else where the game is springing up around the world. They are living proof that it can be done, in new areas and in most cases without large sums of money to squander on making it work.

Edited July 14, 2022 by fighting irish

[Oxford]

28 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I just don't accept that Rugby League can't be ''sold'' into new areas, because all the young people in this country are already committed to Soccer, Cricket or RaRa. That's just eyewash.

The number of complete myths is amazing and most are on a parr with things like the Kraken and Scylla and Charybdis and about as useful as "I wouldn't start from Here!"

[RP London]

39 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I imagine, IMG will be looking for some way to re-present the game to new and old spectators alike.

Tinkering with the Super League structure may make sense but it can't (and never will) be a complete solution.

I expect that they may propose the introduction of short form games (9's) which provides a new product to draw in newcomers (viewers and players and backers).

Also, of course, regular International matches, offer another new, fresh high quality ''product'', serving up ultra competitive games, with enormous potential to draw in many new people.

I hope (and expect) that they will sharpen the presentation of all our output, making it look and sound fresher, lively and exciting in order to strike a chord, with the younger generation and deliver their message to many many more people than we have managed to reach up to now.

I don't know that IMG will have a part in what I'm about to say next but the game (the amateur game) must grasp the nettle, nationwide and institute development programmes, similar to the North East (and Wales) in order to ensure the game halts the recent decline and begins to spread, grow and consolidate right across the country.

I just don't accept that Rugby League can't be ''sold'' into new areas, because all the young people in this country are already committed to Soccer, Cricket or RaRa. That's just eyewash.

We don't need a fortune to do it either, we just need leadership (to create the plan) and the will to carry it out.

Ask Romeo Monteith, from Jamaica, the chaps in Ghana or Nigeria, and Serbia and everywhere else where the game is springing up around the world. They are living proof that it can be done, in new areas and in most cases without large sums of money to squander on making it work.

agree.. IMG can offer a fuller more rounded vision where as the RFL always seem to do one think and expect that to be the solution (structure of the league) without adding other bits too it, and then binning it when it isnt an immediate success (though what were they measuring that by anyway).. I see IMG having those measures etc

in regards the bit in bold i totally agree.. at the RU club i coach my son at we've just started a league section for the summer which has kept some of our club playing but brought in others from other clubs. We have an U14 and U15 team and they are winning games and looking like a team. We played a curtain raiser to the Eagles against Batley and most stayed around for the game afterwards with good positive comments all round. They have been enjoying the league this summer and are already asking about next year etc. Some of the players were exposed (like my son) to league before hand, some had never really watched it or known much about it.. they do now! and they have enjoyed it! Its only a little thing and it doesn't mean that much really but it does show that kids aren't always wedded to things, you just need to catch them in the right way with the right things.. and that goes for any sport (including ones that will no doubt poach from us)

Its not "if you build it they will come" but kids especially will give stuff a go if you pitch it right... we are lucky that jack Howeison is the new DoR at the Rugby Union club and he is looking at expanding the league set up for next year too with more age groups.. kids I tells you, they are the future!

[Oxford]

For the record restruring has been mentioned consistently be the pundits and RL journos almost anytime they've mention IMG. The idea didn't arrive with IMG and predates them and like reducing tax it was, is not and never will be benefit any but a few at the top. This is a politically analogy for those with allergies to discussion being illuminated by something they don't like being referenced.

It could be black ops, of course, spread the restructure rumour so that when we do the real thing they'll all be so relieved it'll get through without a problem. This is an espionage analogy for those with allergies to discussion being illuminated by something they don't like being referenced.

 

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Oxford said:

For the record restruring has been mentioned consistently be the pundits and RL journos almost anytime they've mention IMG. The idea didn't arrive with IMG and predates them and like reducing tax it was, is not and never will be benefit any but a few at the top. This is a politically analogy for those with allergies to discussion being illuminated by something they don't like being referenced.

It could be black ops, of course, spread the restructure rumour so that when we do the real thing they'll all be so relieved it'll get through without a problem. This is an espionage analogy for those with allergies to discussion being illuminated by something they don't like being referenced.

 

I know you have repeated this a few times recently, but the Super 8's was an example that was not about benefiting the handful of big teams. The scrapping of licensing also wasn't to their benefit. 

There is a very vocal segment of fans that strongly feel we have been pandering to the teams hovering around 10th to 16th in our pyramid. 

I'm not sure I agree with your viewpoint or theirs tbh.

[Oxford]

9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I know you have repeated this a few times recently, but the Super 8's was an example that was not about benefiting the handful of big teams. The scrapping of licensing also wasn't to their benefit. 

There is a very vocal segment of fans that strongly feel we have been pandering to the teams hovering around 10th to 16th in our pyramid. 

I'm not sure I agree with your viewpoint or theirs tbh.

I can't agree with you on this Dave which is a rare, nay, freak occurence.

At no point did I say all decisions, ideas and stuff were at the behest of or serving the purposes of those with power and influence.

As for those who think there may have been leanings towards those without, they really need to be placed in a room somewhere with soft walls.

And it's not like you to play Keith in the Middle.

[steve oates]

7 hours ago, RP London said:

Again... read what IMG are offering.. 

again whether it works or not no one can be sure...............

That's absolutely fair enough RP we can see how it goes 

[redjonn]

1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

......

I expect that they may propose the introduction of short form games (9's) which provides a new product to draw in newcomers (viewers and players and backers).

....

I would agree with an introduction of a short form of the game. 

Just not something like the nine's but something that can be played outside or in and is like some other sports, that is 5 a side format.  We already have a 5 side format as in wheel chair rugby.