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This Promotion/Relegation is a Farce


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25 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I get the idea. There’s not quite enough ‘Super’ clubs in Super League and with the greatest will in the world they’re never going to come from small districts in Wakefield or Wigan.

So, we may have to come up with some new ones in large population centres like Dublin.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Exactly. New locations will only work if there's millions of quid coming from somewhere to make up for the fact that they'll have relatively poor crowds for the first few years at least.

And that money won't be coming from existing funds, so it will rely on them getting outside interest and that's not the sort of thing that you can conjure up out of nothing.

I'd wager it will only be possible if investors can see a few years of evidence IMG improving the prospects of rugby league's EXISTING clubs first. Then maybe someone dips their toe in.

That's why it's a 12 year deal. 

I understand the aim of working on getting population centres interested, but a proposal of starting clubs in these cities now is putting the cart before the horse and is basically what we did with PSG in year 1.

My belief is that we have to arrange ourselves to be as attractive as possible for external investors to want to buy in. And not to buy in in 2023, but maybe in 5 years, or 10, or 15 and so on. 

It's where I supported licensing, create the best league you can within current team make-up, scrap auto P&R and basically invite buy-in, show that you have a competition that eliminates the need for working through the pyramid, or risks it all being undone with relegation. 

I expect this will be their answer, but to get it voted through they'll water it down by pandering to too many existing clubs that overlap. 

Create a vibrant comp by hand picking the strongest set of teams, and invite applicants (existing or new) with a very clear process, maybe including buy-in fee. 

Maybe even source investors as part of the process. 

Just saying we should expand to Dublin or Edinburgh is the same as 1994's conversations. 

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8 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Indeed. Hence the Dublin rumours. 

What did Caplan say in this? I'll completely dismiss anything MG says, but I like Caplan. 

Was he just playing fantasy RL like us here or was it a serious rumour? 

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21 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

I think that is a fantastic idea. Lets go with that instead, at least the fans of the merged clubs will be happy then as well.

most fans never seem happy so its not really a big change

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

What did Caplan say in this? I'll completely dismiss anything MG says, but I like Caplan. 

Was he just playing fantasy RL like us here or was it a serious rumour? 

I had a chat with him when I was up in Leeds a couple of weeks ago for the national tag rugby comp. I asked him what he thought IMG’s involvement would entail and among many things - more internationals, more trans-hemisphere club comps, monetisation of women’s and wheelchair RL - he mentioned Dublin. Not Edinburgh though.

I had the same bewildered response as you but he’s close to Gary Hetherington, who negotiated the IMG deal, and so it may have legs. IMG seem to be thinking big. 

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20 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Agree although you've forgotten to put Widnes in the WA postcode club too and Batley and Dewsbury in the WF

not forgetting leeds and hunslet.  bradford and keighley.  oldham and rochdale.  and those big mates workington and whitehaven . salford and swinton ?.

and there we have it merged many clubs and reduced congestion along the M62  a win win 

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18 hours ago, DEANO said:

Ya could also merge Toulouse and Catalan and have a 5 team league playing each other 6 times

no they play in different regions . it would be like merging Sheffield with Newcastle .

now there's another idea clubs born out of  the effects of mergers  merging ..

is there no end to this . maybe we could make it only one team in any traditional county 

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4 hours ago, steve oates said:

IMG aren't in charge and no they won't want (unless they are mad) get three cities that don't bother with RL.

"Markets" is a strange word, I much prefer the idea that SKY and other broadcasters will continue to want the top RL clubs in Superleague and their rivalries, as it is the likes of Leeds, Bradford, Saints, Wigan, Hull, HKR, Catalans, Toulouse,  Warrington, Widnes, Wakefield and Castleford plus Leigh and Featherstone that pull the punters.

I'd love that to be a 14 club Superleage, good for the fans, good for TV  and good for gates.

That they may not go for 14 may be down to viewing figures, that count with the advertisers. I suspect they like a 12 club Superleague so they can play out the big derbies one more time. Saints and Wigan may be boring to purists with three league matches a year, but if these games attract bigger viewing figures than Fev and Leigh then the paying customer is king.

IMG will certainly not be advocating Edingburgh.v. Dublin unless they are mad. The market size for RL is not relevant to the size of a town or city, it's relevant to the number of people who support it.

well that's buggered Featherstone and Castleford for starters

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1 hour ago, Jughead said:

For IMG’s first action to be forming a new club in a country with relatively little foundations in that country would be a strange move. 

 

i would imagine it would not be its first action . i would think that a bit further down the road when they had the game running smoothly they could add new teams so really as the have a 12 year contact .

so perhaps year 4 a new team in Dublin . year 7 a new team in Scotland.  year 10 a new team who knows maybe Barcelona or Rome  depending were the finds are coming from.

not everything has to be done in year one unless your panicking . perhaps we will see the first long term strategy in rugby league expansion .

 

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17 minutes ago, bigbaldnmad said:

Call it what you want, it didn't work.

Had it been franchising, it could well have worked. It was nothing like franchising, so it is incorrect to say what it wasn't didn't work.

I'm interested in that drive, that rush to judgment, that is so prevalent in our society. We all know that pleasurable rush that comes from condemning, and in the short term it's quite a satisfying thing to do, isn't it?

J. K. Rowling

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3 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Generally Franchising is selling the rights to operate a slice of a business for a designated area for a specific amount of cash - the key operative being SELLING the rights

In RL terms if we sold Franchises we raise cash to promote the sport - similar to attracting a third party who take a percentage of future income, thats the buying on the Tik way.

Well put. And in return, the franchisor sets the structure, rules, standards etc etc.

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I'm interested in that drive, that rush to judgment, that is so prevalent in our society. We all know that pleasurable rush that comes from condemning, and in the short term it's quite a satisfying thing to do, isn't it?

J. K. Rowling

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Dublin isn't a particularly big city (Belfast is bigger, for example*) and it already has quite a mature sports market, I believe. RU is a reasonable deal but any strategy based on luring existing supporters of union isn't one that's going to work, is it?

Is the thinking being that we can get an additional TV deal from RTE or Premier for ROI coverage?

* = edit: turns out, it isn't, because it's wiki doing that thing of putting the metro figure first for some but not others. Dublin still ain't massive though.

As I put a few weeks back , Premier had the camera's at the LSV broadcasting to the ROI , as a ' test ' , fairly sure it was the Sheffield game 

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2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Indeed. Hence the Dublin rumours. 

But Dublin as a market is packed. Belfast or Scotland is actually a clear(er) run. SRU just lives in private schools or south africans so much more of a tangible market. Again though, it´s all infrastructure. 

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1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

But Dublin as a market is packed. Belfast or Scotland is actually a clear(er) run. SRU just lives in private schools or south africans so much more of a tangible market. Again though, it´s all infrastructure. 

Tell IMG, chief. Nothing to do with me.  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

With Dublin I believe the thinking is they would tap into the RU playing/spectator base. 

That my friend would a failure.

GAA is more than just a sport in Ireland, The nearest equal here are super community clubs historically immersed in the populace added with a huge sense that this is about place and belonging. Does cricket do that in England?

And then is the very successful rugby union establishment, spots of football endeavours like in Dundalk, north Dublin and Cork. Plus boxing and horse racing.

RL in Ireland would be best built up from the bottom and slowly. We have tried on multiple occasions to impose RL Empire style onto virginesque fields in Paris, Canada and all failed as much as the Darien did for the Scots.

If its the Sixcountiesnorthernirelandulsternorthofirelanduladh, then its even more complicated and the sectarian issues come to play. As far as I can see only glammy, poppy ice hockey has removed itself from the green/orange net. And That is  just for kids.

Any way I digress.

Edited by idrewthehaggis
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Not for me to tell IMG what to do, but since that hasn't stopped others, here goes. Don't waste a second on Ireland, don't even waste £1/1€ on a baggage trolley at Dublin/Cork/Belfast (x2) airports. Its never ever ever going to happen.  Ever. Even if you fly to Knock for Knock Shrine.

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I'm interested in that drive, that rush to judgment, that is so prevalent in our society. We all know that pleasurable rush that comes from condemning, and in the short term it's quite a satisfying thing to do, isn't it?

J. K. Rowling

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1 hour ago, paul hicks said:

i would imagine it would not be its first action . i would think that a bit further down the road when they had the game running smoothly they could add new teams so really as the have a 12 year contact .

so perhaps year 4 a new team in Dublin . year 7 a new team in Scotland.  year 10 a new team who knows maybe Barcelona or Rome  depending were the finds are coming from.

not everything has to be done in year one unless your panicking . perhaps we will see the first long term strategy in rugby league expansion .

 

 a new team in Dublin.    Never going to happen.

a new team in Scotland.  Never going to happen

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I'm interested in that drive, that rush to judgment, that is so prevalent in our society. We all know that pleasurable rush that comes from condemning, and in the short term it's quite a satisfying thing to do, isn't it?

J. K. Rowling

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2 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Not for me to tell IMG what to do, but since that hasn't stopped others, here goes. Don't waste a second on Ireland, don't even waste £1/1€ on a baggage trolley at Dublin/Cork/Belfast (x2) airports. Its never ever ever going to happen.  Ever. Even if you fly to Knock for Knock Shrine.

Agree/disagree.

Plenty of support through sharing of good practice/equipment/ training/etc from RFL would be a benefit.

The Northern Ireland executive recently announced immense capital spending for the big three sports GAA, "soccer" and rugby union. A task might be to aspire to access this kind of cash, act as a lobby towards government.

There would be no issues if there was training done in Ireland by SL clubs or challenge matches held there.

But a SL club in Dub............

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33 minutes ago, JohnM said:

 a new team in Dublin.    Never going to happen.

a new team in Scotland.  Never going to happen

Eh up, its like 1980 all over again. Let's welcome Fulham, Cardiff and Kent for starters 👍

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Posted (edited)

On the Monday after Magic, almost without fail, there’s a non-UK destination that always gets linked with hosting Magic the following year and Dublin always seems to crop up on the list of places people say they’d like to host Magic. Maybe they’re not interested in a new team but the creation of an event, whether a pre-existing event like Magic or the Challenge Cup Final or they’re looking at creating an event and part of that is creating a TV deal for Super League as part of this. Creating a team would not look like an IMG kind of move, from the little I know of them. 

Edited by Jughead
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My comment on Dublin and Edinburgh were tongue in cheek but that is the whole point of a franchise. You just pick up a club and put it where you want. A bit like Cornwall and American football. 

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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