Victor the Inflictor

[Dunbar]

15 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

how can you compare cobbo to young? its like tyson compared to bruno 

I didn't compare them.

But if you do want to compare them then they are the same age and Cobbo has made more errors per game than Young this year.  Which is a relief because you think that Young would be one with an error that causes England a chance at the World Cup.

 

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

Young in the team but think he's sticking with Jamaica isn't he?

I don't know. I have heard he has but I don't think anything official has happened (if it can before the squads are announced).

If he is not available I would go with an attacking threat in Liam Marshall but I suspect Wane will add Ryan Hall (assuming Tom Davies is not back this year as he would rival Marshall for a spot).

[bobbruce]

7 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I think we have to be very careful not to try and shoehorn our best players into a 17 and play them in positions where they may not be as effective as players who play their regularly but may be as good in absolute terms.  Somebody has suggested Radley or Knowles in the 11 or 12 positions but I don't think they would be as effective there as our specialist options.

I think as you suggested earlier you could have one starting at hooker. Especially against the bigger teams like Samoa in the first game.  

[Harry Stottle]

5 hours ago, Dunbar said:

With the size of some of the forwards they will be facing I would suggest McMeeken and Batchelor would be best.

But I expect Wane to go with Bateman and Whitehead. 

Don't tell me you are going to suggest in the centre?

But all those attributes you have given Bateman, I have yet to see them since his return from Aus, yes they are in there somewhere he just needs to put them on show to convince me at least he warrants international selection.

 

 

•  
• Quote

 

[Dunbar]

@Harry Stottleno I wouldn't suggest Batemam in the centres but I think it is very useful to have an edge forward (staring or bench) who can shift to the centre if needed in case we see an injury in the backline.

[Dunbar]

James Graham speaking about Radley's decision.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2022/07/19/radleys-decision-melts-james-grahams-heart/

[StandOffHalf]

I think this would be my England 1-17 at the moment. I'm most torn on the centres, left wing, and second-row. I think Newman and Connor can push for that right centre slot, which would make it a contest between Herbie and Percival for left centre. I'm giving the edge for left wing to Burgess due to his exploits, form, and size. Williams a runner from 7 with Welsby adding class, inventiveness and control from 6. If Roby comes back he starts at 9, with Radley on the bench. If Radley starts at hooker, I'd have Hastings or McShane on the bench for control around the ruck. I really like McQueen and think he's going better than Whitehead - who I'd still have in the 24, but behind Batchelor and McMeeken. Oledzski, Burgess and McMeeken would offer middle option impact from the bench.

1/ Sam Tomkins

2/ Tommy Makinson

3/ Herbie Farnworth

4/ Mark Percival

5/ Joe Burgess 

6/ Jack Welsby

7/ George Williams

8/ Alex Walmsley

9/ James Roby / Victor Radley

10/ Luke Thompson

11/ John Bateman 

12/ Chris McQueen / Joe Batchelor

13/ Morgan Knowles

 

14/ Jackson Hastings / Paul McShane

15/ Mike McMeeken

16/ Mikolaj Oledzski

17/ Tom Burgess

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

I think this would be my England 1-17 at the moment. I'm most torn on the centres, left wing, and second-row. I think Newman and Connor can push for that right centre slot, which would make it a contest between Herbie and Percival for left centre. I'm giving the edge for left wing to Burgess due to his exploits, form, and size. Williams a runner from 7 with Welsby adding class, inventiveness and control from 6. If Roby comes back he starts at 9, with Radley on the bench. If Radley starts at hooker, I'd have Hastings or McShane on the bench for control around the ruck. I really like McQueen and think he's going better than Whitehead - who I'd still have in the 24, but behind Batchelor and McMeeken. Oledzski, Burgess and McMeeken would offer middle option impact from the bench.

1/ Sam Tomkins

2/ Tommy Makinson

3/ Herbie Farnworth

4/ Mark Percival

5/ Joe Burgess 

6/ Jack Welsby

7/ George Williams

8/ Alex Walmsley

9/ James Roby / Victor Radley

10/ Luke Thompson

11/ John Bateman 

12/ Chris McQueen / Joe Batchelor

13/ Morgan Knowles

 

14/ Jackson Hastings / Paul McShane

15/ Mike McMeeken

16/ Mikolaj Oledzski

17/ Tom Burgess

Burgess is a good shout on the wing.

Interesting that you don't see Lomax as one of the play making options?

[DavidM]

Young may have a pull to Jamaica , but there’s an opening now into that England wing spot for him and i for one hopes he goes for it , he’s coming on a bundle and if the Aussie commentators are talking you up you must be doing well

[StandOffHalf]

25 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Burgess is a good shout on the wing.

Interesting that you don't see Lomax as one of the play making options?

He's a really good player. For me, it comes down to who I think offers more threat and unease to top-tier opponents. Williams' running game can spark England up, and Welsby is just DEMANDING selection. 

No slight on Lomax. I just feel that against Oz Williams would be more likely to crack them open. Lomax makes the 24 IMO.

Edited July 19, 2022 by StandOffHalf

[Mr Frisky]

4 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

with paddypower currently offering odds of aus 4/11 and eng 7/1 does anyone really think in reality the green and golds are even taking us seriously? or are they just coming for a jolly outing and to give us a right royal pasting 

They currently can't beat Tonga so they need to start winning again first.

[JM2010]

5 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

They currently can't beat Tonga so they need to start winning again first.

Obviously I haven't seen Australia play for a while but I thought New Zealand looked really good against Tonga the other week and could be the team to win the WC 

[bobbruce]

19 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

He's a really good player. For me, it comes down to who I think offers more threat and unease to top-tier opponents. Williams' running game can spark England up, and Welsby is just DEMANDING selection. 

No slight on Lomax. I just feel that against Oz Williams would be more likely to crack them open. Lomax makes the 24 IMO.

There’s a danger that Williams and Welsby might be too similar in the runs they make and positions they take up. Whereas Lomax does a lot of the in scene organising that allows other player to play that off the cuff game. 

[StandOffHalf]

40 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

There’s a danger that Williams and Welsby might be too similar in the runs they make and positions they take up. Whereas Lomax does a lot of the in scene organising that allows other player to play that off the cuff game. 

That is Lomax's strength. I'm by no means discounting him. If his arm holds up, he'll be in Wane's 24.

Williams is a running scrum-half, who's got a good bag of attacking kick options. He's not really an organiser and IMO looks a bit harried and impatient when he runs across-field trying to find his runners. Like you, I do think an organiser like Lomax or Hastings would probably better complement Williams. And yet, Welsby is in the sort of form where one just sits back and marvels at the things he does. I'd hate to leave him out of that team at the moment, heehee.

[bobbruce]

12 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

That is Lomax's strength. I'm by no means discounting him. If his arm holds up, he'll be in Wane's 24.

Williams is a running scrum-half, who's got a good bag of attacking kick options. He's not really an organiser and IMO looks a bit harried and impatient when he runs across-field trying to find his runners. Like you, I do think an organiser like Lomax or Hastings would probably better complement Williams. And yet, Welsby is in the sort of form where one just sits back and marvels at the things he does. I'd hate to leave him out of that team at the moment, heehee.

I get that but I think a lot of that is the freedom having Lomax along side allows him. Welsby still makes the odd bad decision which he made a couple of early in the Huddersfield game early but then produces a couple of moments of brilliance also. I have my doubts he’s ready for the intensity and pressure of being an international half back. That would surely be made even harder by dropping him in with a unfamiliar half back partner. 

[StandOffHalf]

1 minute ago, bobbruce said:

I get that but I think a lot of that is the freedom having Lomax along side allows him. Welsby still makes the odd bad decision which he made a couple of early in the Huddersfield game early but then produces a couple of moments of brilliance also. I have my doubts he’s ready for the intensity and pressure of being an international half back. That would surely be made even harder by dropping him in with a unfamiliar half back partner. 

Yes, those are fair points.

It's possible that I am swooning too much at one of the great young talents in our game.

[bobbruce]

Just now, StandOffHalf said:

Yes, those are fair points.

It's possible that I am swooning too much at one of the great young talents in our game.

I absolutely agree he’s a talent and for me with Dodd could become the England halfback pairing for years to come. 

[Harry Stottle]

Do all those who are calling for Hastings in the England team watch the NRL games? 

He took the division by storm .................. for about 4 games, then he was worked out by the opposing coaches and his contributions are no where near as effective as they were, Welsby is an unknown quantity to the NRL player's he can bring the surprise element that we so desperately need.

[DavidM]

30 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Do all those who are calling for Hastings in the England team watch the NRL games? 

He took the division by storm .................. for about 4 games, then he was worked out by the opposing coaches and his contributions are no where near as effective as they were, Welsby is an unknown quantity to the NRL player's he can bring the surprise element that we so desperately need.

Yes I do . He’s working his way out of my squad . And he’s not even in the halves now 

[Mr Frisky]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Do all those who are calling for Hastings in the England team watch the NRL games? 

He took the division by storm .................. for about 4 games, then he was worked out by the opposing coaches and his contributions are no where near as effective as they were, Welsby is an unknown quantity to the NRL player's he can bring the surprise element that we so desperately need.

Carefull Harry, suggesting a SL player is a better option than a NRL player with get you crucified on here...

[Davo5]

9 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Carefull Harry, suggesting a SL player is a better option than a NRL player with get you crucified on here...

I can’t recall any poster not having Welsby in their 17,the only real debate is what position he plays in,for me it’s too soon to have him play halfback.

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, DavidM said:

Yes I do . He’s working his way out of my squad . And he’s not even in the halves now 

To slow?

[Dunbar]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

To slow?

I don't think it is as much that Hastings is too slow - more that the teams he leads (as an organising half) are too predicable.

There was plenty of praise for him in the first few rounds this year as he grabbed a ragged Tigers outfit and organised them and guided them around the park (and a couple of close wins).  But the attack of the Tigers quickly became very predictable.  He moved the ball through the forwards and to the backs but there was no innovation or spark of creativity.  A well structured defence could manage that attack all day long.

Now, it may be Hastings or the players he had to work with but I am inclined to say it was the former at least in part and it is telling that he is now in the lock position with Brooks and Doueihi in the halves.  Didn't the same thing happen at Wigan which we also awfully slow and predictable with Hastings in the team.

This may sound too harsh and I actually think he is a good player but internationally to break down defenses, you need more.

[Harry Stottle]

13 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I don't think it is as much that Hastings is too slow - more that the teams he leads (as an organising half) are too predicable.

There was plenty of praise for him in the first few rounds this year as he grabbed a ragged Tigers outfit and organised them and guided them around the park (and a couple of close wins).  But the attack of the Tigers quickly became very predictable.  He moved the ball through the forwards and to the backs but there was no innovation or spark of creativity.  A well structured defence could manage that attack all day long.

Now, it may be Hastings or the players he had to work with but I am inclined to say it was the former at least in part and it is telling that he is now in the lock position with Brooks and Doueihi in the halves.  Didn't the same thing happen at Wigan which we also awfully slow and predictable with Hastings in the team.

This may sound too harsh and I actually think he is a good player but internationally to break down defenses, you need more.

When he first came to Salford he was the unknown quantity and he relished in the role, then he went on the GB Tour and if I say he was 'absolutely bobbins' that may be a complimentary statement, then on to Wigan and I have nothing to add to your summary.

He has shown his worth on the international stage against NZ, Tonga and PNG, he is most definatley not the player to orchestrate the Engish offence. Leave him to enjoy the summer and beaches of Sydney.

[jacksy]

I know plenty hate him and don't want him in the England squad.

But Connor would be in the centre for me teamed up with Makinson again.