D-Day England release new kit! (Needs it's very own thread)

[Chrispmartha]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The cricket example is perfectly valid, I am referring to ODI form. 

 

And they were all predominantly blue - 2 of them also had ENGLAND in massive letters on the front

[gingerjon]

Regards to England football - as a reference point - the Historical Kits page is fantastic and you can start in 2022 and go all the way back to the very first game.

What is notable is often you'd recognise an England shirt as an England shirt even if someone took the badge off.

http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/international/england/england-2010-2019.html

[RP London]

4 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

My frustrations are all borne out of what i consider to be another missed opportunity to produce something extremely good. 

This is key IMHO ... massive world cup for us, massive. If they want to keep the blue and this is the start of that then fair play.. but please then use that in the coms and not red etc and we can use this to launch that.. hopefully while holding up a trophy, but then we cant go back. 

Absolutely fine.. but like you I cant see it lasting otherwise i think they would have done all that.. and at that point we once again change that look for the next international we play (nearly 8 months later) and that "draw" that people feel towards an identity has gone IMHO

[Chrispmartha]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well no, I am taking what you say at face value. 

You are being critical that it is not recognisable as an England shirt, but your only change is adding red. Neither of the shirts you mocked up look like England RL shirts, something you are really critical of (it doesn't bother me). 

I'm really not sure what your criticism is, other than they've taken red out of the kit - something you have no issues with for other sports. 

I did those designs to show I how I think adopting the things they apparently wanted to adopt could have been done better, not what I think the England RL World Cup shirt should look like.

Ive explained my criticism and its to do with wider branding and recognition

Ive mainly got no issues with other sports doing it because I don't give a monkeys what they do, but I have said that those other ports have far better marketing teams to be able to pull of colour changes.

They haven't just taken some red out of the kit they've totally replaced it, they've literally changed the Teams main playing colours.

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Regards to England football - as a reference point - the Historical Kits page is fantastic and you can start in 2022 and go all the way back to the very first game.

What is notable is often you'd recognise an England shirt as an England shirt even if someone took the badge off.

http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/international/england/england-2010-2019.html

can i invoice you for my wages for this afternoon!!! I see a rabbit hole I'm about to disappear down!

[Ragingbull]

23 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's a common thing that teams do. Obviously many people feel differently to you. 

Same exercise regarding the badge with the other kits I highlighted earlier in the thread. When a design is changed (which has been acknowledged here) that would always be the case. 

The George Cross has been lambasted here for years, branded a cheap Sports Direct chav kit. We now move into what is a more traditional RL design and fans are no happier. 

Have u bothered to read the comments here?  The majority dont have an issue with the design template just the colours that appear in it

[RP London]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

I did those designs to show I how I think adopting the things they apparently wanted to adopt could have been done better, not what I think the England RL World Cup shirt should look like.

Ive explained my criticism and its to do with wider branding and recognition

Ive mainly got no issues with other sports doing it because I don't give a monkeys what they do, but I have said that those other ports have far better marketing teams to be able to pull of colour changes.

They haven't just taken some red out of the kit they've totally replaced it, they've literally changed the Teams main playing colours.

agree, its a bit like when Cardiff city tried it... 

Just remember I am an England Supporters Member as i got the free RED hat.... I was consulted on this even though I paid to be a member (not saying this as I expect more or anything) but if they are not going to consult paid up members of the England Supported Club (or whatever they called it) who exactly did they consult?

[northamptoncougar]

It’s ######, we all know it. Whoever signed this off needs sacking as they’ve no idea of “brand awareness.”

[Dave T]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

I did those designs to show I how I think adopting the things they apparently wanted to adopt could have been done better, not what I think the England RL World Cup shirt should look like.

Ive explained my criticism and its to do with wider branding and recognition

Ive mainly got no issues with other sports doing it because I don't give a monkeys what they do, but I have said that those other ports have far better marketing teams to be able to pull of colour changes.

They haven't just taken some red out of the kit they've totally replaced it, they've literally changed the Teams main playing colours.

I have no issues with the kit. In fact I like it a lot, I think it should be the future of England kits. I think some of the criticism of it as a standalone kit is completely over the top. 

I do however agree with you around the Web presence and branding - and that is an example of us being cheap as a sport - if another sport had a radical change, they would have consistency right through, so I do accept that point. 

But the other sport point is relevant, because the examples I give are the FA, ECB, Nike and NB - all have far bigger brands than the RFL and Oxen, and they have been comfortable with changing colours. 

Implementation of this may be a fair challenge, but I think that's a given in RL at the moment. 

But as a kit, I think it's excellent and England will look great in the World Cup this year. 

 

[Chrispmartha]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Regards to England football - as a reference point - the Historical Kits page is fantastic and you can start in 2022 and go all the way back to the very first game.

What is notable is often you'd recognise an England shirt as an England shirt even if someone took the badge off.

http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/international/england/england-2010-2019.html

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Chrispmartha

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Ragingbull said:

Have u bothered to read the comments here?  The majority dont have an issue with the design template just the colours that appear in it

Design covers everything on the shirt. 

People hated the George Cross. 

People hate a blue v. 

It's almost as though nothing would please people. 

[Ragingbull]

At the risk of being 2 simplistic, i think wed all he happy if they simply changed the navy to red.  Surely thats all it needs?.

Im sure someone could do that on photoshop?

[Chrispmartha]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I have no issues with the kit. In fact I like it a lot, I think it should be the future of England kits. I think some of the criticism of it as a standalone kit is completely over the top. 

I do however agree with you around the Web presence and branding - and that is an example of us being cheap as a sport - if another sport had a radical change, they would have consistency right through, so I do accept that point. 

But the other sport point is relevant, because the examples I give are the FA, ECB, Nike and NB - all have far bigger brands than the RFL and Oxen, and they have been comfortable with changing colours. 

Implementation of this may be a fair challenge, but I think that's a given in RL at the moment. 

But as a kit, I think it's excellent and England will look great in the World Cup this year. 

 

But the issue most people have is in relation to your second point.

The actual design of it as a standalone kit is fine - well its OK it looks cheap and is hardly innovative but as I say it's fine.

The other sports example maybe relevant but as I have said the other sport have far better marketing and branding teams and play more games than we do.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

But the issue most people have is in relation to your second point.

The actual design of it as a standalone kit is fine - well its OK it looks cheap and is hardly innovative but as I say it's fine.

The other sports example maybe relevant but as I have said the other sport have far better marketing and branding teams and play more games than we do.

I'd be stunned if most RL fans give much consideration to branding and Web design etc. 

They'll either like the kit or won't. 

This isn't a normal forum. 

Most people haven't mentioned web presence etc. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Dave T

[Davo5]

49 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I guarantee if Oxen had released that kit people would be complaining. 

Without question. 

But not in the huge numbers that are complaining about this one,which should tell you they’ve got this kit design massively wrong.

[Chrispmartha]

4 minutes ago, Ragingbull said:

At the risk of being 2 simplistic, i think wed all he happy if they simply changed the navy to red.  Surely thats all it needs?.

Im sure someone could do that on photoshop?

 

Here you go

 

[Ragingbull]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

But the issue most people have is in relation to your second point.

The actual design of it as a standalone kit is fine - well its OK it looks cheap and is hardly innovative but as I say it's fine.

The other sports example maybe relevant but as I have said the other sport have far better marketing and branding teams and play more games than we do.

Dont bother with him mate.  If you said the grass was green hed argue with you.  If ever there was an example of a keyboad warrior then weve certainly found one today

[Dave T]

Just now, Davo5 said:

But not in the huge numbers that are complaining about this one,which should tell you they’ve got this kit design massively wrong.

Go back to last years kit release. I guarantee the same people were slating it. 

[Dave T]

Just now, Ragingbull said:

Dont bother with him mate.  If you said the grass was green hed argue with you.  If ever there was an example of a keyboad warrior then weve certainly found one today

I suggest you don't know what a keyboard warrior is. 

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Dave T said:

I'd be stunned if most RL fans give much consideration to branding and Web design etc. 

They'll either like the kit or won't. 

This isn't a normal forum. 

So why has the majority of comments on it (not just here) been, why is it not red?

People give consideration to branding without really thinking about it. Would you just judge a Warrington home kit solely on design if it was Blue and green rather than blue and yellow?

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

People hate a blue v. 

That's a deliberately simplistic reading.

My personal view is that a solid blue V over a band of 12 alternating blue and white Vs is never going to look good. It looks better on the players than I thought it would but it's still not for me.

What it isn't, and yet you've called it both, is a traditional rugby league design or a single V.

[Dave T]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

So why has the majority of comments on it (not just here) been, why is it not red?

People give consideration to branding without really thinking about it. Would you just judge a Warrington home kit solely on design if it was Blue and green rather than blue and yellow?

I'd say its because its a major change. People are resistant to change. 

England, across most sports use white, blue red in various combinations, I don't see a major challenge with this kit being with and blue. 

I expect it'll sell well this year. 

[RP London]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Go back to last years kit release. I guarantee the same people were slating it. 

I didnt, i liked it.. I'd rather we didnt have the george cross as i dont think it pops "Rugby League Shirt" but i dont mind it as a shirt, bought it at full price too as thought we'd wear it at the world cup (more fool me i know!).. 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by RP London

[Wellsy4HullFC]

My thoughts are: they wanted a V as it's a rugby league shirt, but can't use red because it would look like a Saints shirt, and can't use red and blue because it would look like a GB shirt, so chose navy because football use it.

I get why they've done it, but it just doesn't look like an England shirt.

I think a really subtle light grey/off-white (like the 2013 kit) would have looked great with that kit.

Think I'll stick to wearing the giant red cross shirt I bought in the sale for a tenner!

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That's a deliberately simplistic reading.

My personal view is that a solid blue V over a band of 12 alternating blue and white Vs is never going to look good. It looks better on the players than I thought it would but it's still not for me.

What it isn't, and yet you've called it both, is a traditional rugby league design or a single V.

And your description is a deliberately over-complicated one. 

If you were describing the kit, you probably describe it as white, with blue shoulders and v's.

Chevrons are very traditional on RL shirts.