D-Day England release new kit! (Needs it's very own thread)

[Exiled Townie]

I think the new shirt is a good design and colour for a club rugby shirt,

it's just not a good design and colour for an England rugby shirt.

 

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I'd say its because its a major change. People are resistant to change. 

England, across most sports use white, blue red in various combinations, I don't see a major challenge with this kit being with and blue. 

I expect it'll sell well this year. 

It's a major change that simply didn't need to happen - if they came out with some actual rationale and there was a good reason to adopt such a change Id be a bit more accepting of it.

England RL has never played in Blue and White, none of the marketing suggests they play in blue and white, they released a shirt for this World Cup that was White and Red (people will have bought merchandise and indeed the shirt for the World Cup) all the other teams in our group play in Blue and White.

 

I like change, I like positive change when its well thought out and has a positive reason for happening, this is none of those.

 

I get it it, you're not bothered and I get the feeling you don't think branding, brand recognition and marketing is all that important?

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 hours ago, RP London said:

If its the RFL and they decide that we are going to be navy blue and white for every and they are going to make that something then i can live with the idea, though still dont like the execution, but if its a one off whim shirt then i'll be livid

Agreed. Looking at it again for the second time, I actually think it's perfectly ok. What will be infuriating is if we completely change design again next time round. Hopefully the powers-that-be have decided to go with a navy chevron on a white shirt design for evermore (or slight variations on that theme), as opposed to just doing in on a whim.

[Dave T]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

It's a major change that simply didn't need to happen - if they came out with some actual rationale and there was a good reason to adopt such a change Id be a bit more accepting of it.

England RL has never played in Blue and White, none of the marketing suggests they play in blue and white, they released a shirt for this World Cup that was White and Red (people will have bought merchandise and indeed the shirt for the World Cup) all the other teams in our group play in Blue and White.

 

I like change, I like positive change when its well thought out and has a positive reason for happening, this is none of those.

 

I get it it, you're not bothered and I get the feeling you don't think branding, brand recognition and marketing is all that important?

You think wrong. I work with marketing and brand every day in my job. 

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Dave T said:

You think wrong. I work with marketing and brand every day in my job. 

Christ!

 

[EastLondonMike]

The only real consistent thing England RL have produced in its recent life time (since 1995) is the presence of the White and Red as its key colours, and (sadly) the presence of a St.George cross implemented within the design. 85% white - 15% Red is a balance I would go with.

The presence of the Chevron on this incarnation of an England jersey IMO is purely to try and appeal to a likely small group of Rugby League supporters.

There is no need at all for it otherwise. The thick and numerous thin chevrons mean nothing. They have no real relevance.

Chevrons may have been a very traditional RL aspect once (though I'd say no more than hooped jerseys), but not so much now.

[Dave T]

It's interesting reading some of the Twitter comments. 

Plenty complaining it's a Saints away shirt - I didn't get that tbh, do Saints often have white away shirts, don't they often have light blue? 

Plenty complaining that it's a good Scotland shirt. Again, do Scotland tend to have white shirts, they have usually been blue bodies?

[Oxford]

3 hours ago, philipw said:

https://www.eliteprosports.co.uk/product/england-rl-2022-replica-home-shirt/

 

I really like it 

Me too .... it's distictive enough and the advert with all the differing participants playing a role made my day!

 

[Dave T]

Just now, EastLondonMike said:

 

Chevrons may have been a very traditional RL aspect once (though I'd say no more than hooped jerseys), but not so much now.

In the World Cup we'll see Australia, NZ, France, PNG and England with chevrons. In recent WC's we've also seen Tonga, Samoa, Cook Islands, Lebanon, Ireland etc also with chevrons. 

I think they are quite prominent at international level. 

But one of the important things is that chevrons are quite well known as an RL design - we see them far less in other sports, if at all. 

[gingerjon]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

And your description is a deliberately over-complicated one. 

How very dare you.

I do think it's a clunky design that is inappropriate for the badges (this is a recurring them in a lot of RL shirt designs) and I think it has been very cheaply executed (this is a recurring theme with Oxen and England RL specifically). It also falls foul of a 'more is more' approach that seems to befall a lot of lower league soccer teams and RL folk - filled in sleeves, a banded chevron *and* and a thick chevron ... you probably only needed one or two from those three really.

I also think it doesn't (yet) look like an England RL shirt.

The yet is because if we stick with it then that perception will change.

For balance: it is still better than the nasty faux-retro thing that Wales are wearing.

[Chrispmartha]

7 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

The only real consistent thing England RL have produced in its recent life time (since 1995) is the presence of the White and Red as its key colours, and (sadly) the presence of a St.George cross implemented within the design. 85% white - 15% Red is a balance I would go with.

The presence of the Chevron on this incarnation of an England jersey IMO is purely to try and appeal to a likely small group of Rugby League supporters.

There is no need at all for it otherwise. The thick and numerous thin chevrons mean nothing. They have no real relevance.

Chevrons may have been a very traditional RL aspect once (though I'd say no more than hooped jerseys), but not so much now.

And its things like the below when Im talking about branding, marketing and lack of joined up thinking, look through ought the RLWC website, what colours are associated with England RL...

 

[Dunbar]

3 hours ago, EastLondonMike said:

I don't have time for this today!!..

Too many things to comment on. I'm going to have to dedicate my lunch break to this.

In their defence, they haven't had a lot of time to work on the RLWC 2021 kit and have been working to a harsh deadline.

[Davo5]

25 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Go back to last years kit release. I guarantee the same people were slating it. 

Maybe but I guarantee they didn’t have as much company,the huge widespread criticism on forums/social media is something I’ve never seen before.

[Dave T]

Just now, Davo5 said:

Maybe but I guarantee they didn’t have as much company,the huge widespread criticism on forums/social media is something I’ve never seen before.

As an RL fan I very much doubt that's true mate

[RP London]

Just to add with the whole branding thing... this feels so very RFL at the moment

This is still the photo being used to link to the "new kit"... i mean FFS!

[EastLondonMike]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

In the World Cup we'll see Australia, NZ, France, PNG and England with chevrons. In recent WC's we've also seen Tonga, Samoa, Cook Islands, Lebanon, Ireland etc also with chevrons. 

I think they are quite prominent at international level. 

But one of the important things is that chevrons are quite well known as an RL design - we see them far less in other sports, if at all. 

I should have said in the UK. As you are right, yes they are much more prominent, and have consistently been used by clubs and International teams overseas.

Im not wholly convinced they are a recognisable  aspect of a RL jersey. Maybe to us within the game, but not the neutral or fan of other sports. Anyway, regardless, let's not take this one any further! 

[RP London]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

In their defence, they haven't had a lot of time to work on the RLWC 2021 kit and have been working to a harsh deadline.

Actually I bought that one... it was nice.. it was red and white.. is this the away kit that they forgot to launch and thought "oh I know what to do"

[FearTheVee]

4 hours ago, philipw said:

https://www.eliteprosports.co.uk/product/england-rl-2022-replica-home-shirt/

 

I really like it 

Dear lord

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

How very dare you.

I do think it's a clunky design that is inappropriate for the badges (this is a recurring them in a lot of RL shirt designs) and I think it has been very cheaply executed (this is a recurring theme with Oxen and England RL specifically). It also falls foul of a 'more is more' approach that seems to befall a lot of lower league soccer teams and RL folk - filled in sleeves, a banded chevron *and* and a thick chevron ... you probably only needed one or two from those three really.

I also think it doesn't (yet) look like an England RL shirt.

The yet is because if we stick with it then that perception will change.

For balance: it is still better than the nasty faux-retro thing that Wales are wearing.

I don't disagree on some of your design points, I prefer a more simplistic approach, but I think this one *just* stays on the right side of being too fussy. But a simple double chevron may have been nicer (with the shoulders as they are). I've never seen a shirt with chevrons and thought " if onky they'd have added half a dozen more...". 

The point about it not looking like an England shirt is where I'm an outlier. That doesbt bother me one jot. Because ultimately, it will. We'll see England RL walk out in that kit on BBC and we'll see them play in that kit that has the England RL badge. 

I quite like things being freshened up and I don't find it too jarring to have to look at the badge to see who a kit is.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Dave T said:

Because ultimately, it will. We'll see England RL walk out in that kit on BBC and we'll see them play in that kit that has the England RL badge. 

When we lift the World Cup trophy wearing that shirt then it won't matter at all - that will be our shirt forever.

[Davo5]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

As an RL fan I very much doubt that's true mate

Oh it is,just because you can’t except the massive kick back against this kit doesn’t make it untrue Dave.

[andyscoot]

19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

Plenty complaining it's a Saints away shirt - I didn't get that tbh, do Saints often have white away shirts, don't they often have light blue?

More recently yeah it's been a more experimental affair but traditionally it was always white with a blue v. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Davo5 said:

Oh it is,just because you can’t except the massive kick back against this kit doesn’t make it untrue Dave.

I care little whether people like the kit, they haven't liked any, possibly with the exception of the 2013 WC kit TBF. It is a given that England kit launch day will see criticism. It's not my work being criticised, I'm not precious about it. I simply like the kit. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, andyscoot said:

More recently yeah it's been a more experimental affair but traditionally it was always white with a blue v. 

Were probably talking over 25 to 30 years ago aren't we, as they generally wouldn't wear white home and away. 

[Chrispmartha]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't disagree on some of your design points, I prefer a more simplistic approach, but I think this one *just* stays on the right side of being too fussy. But a simple double chevron may have been nicer (with the shoulders as they are). I've never seen a shirt with chevrons and thought " if onky they'd have added half a dozen more...". 

The point about it not looking like an England shirt is where I'm an outlier. That doesbt bother me one jot. Because ultimately, it will. We'll see England RL walk out in that kit on BBC and we'll see them play in that kit that has the England RL badge. 

I quite like things being freshened up and I don't find it too jarring to have to look at the badge to see who a kit is.

Would you be happy With Warrington wearing a Blue and Green kit next year?

I mean you can see the badge, right?