D-Day England release new kit! (Needs it's very own thread)

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Quick 5 minutes in Photoshop, I don't think this is particularly good but I think if you want to adopt a chevron and incorporate the GB colours and blue then something like this would have been better IMO as its more subtle

I much prefer that. 

[MattSantos]

47 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm afraid your question needs a few more words than this to make sense.

Why?

13 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Quick 5 minutes in Photoshop, I don't think this is particularly good but I think if you want to adopt a chevron and incorporate the GB colours and blue then something like this would have been better IMO as its more subtle

I quite like the shirt, but this is bloomin lovely.

However, from a wearability perspective, the blue chevron is a much better look on a non playing human that the above would be.

Saying that, i find it odd that adults wear the shirts anyway. 

[Dave T]

20 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Yeah I just don't think a new sponsor should dictate a new kit - it's happened many times before with other teams without the need. As you say i'm almost certain they'd have done this regardless. I'm also not comfortable with Betfred being plastered on the junior kits - that is banned in football. 

They won't be on will they? I don't think they are in SL? 

[Spidey]

Just smacks Yorkshire to me, and as a proud Lancastrian* obviously don't like it

Ditch the blue sleeves or the narrow blue lines to get more white in the kit and I may be convinced

 

*Not true, born in Cheshire

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, Damien said:

I would always associated England football with white and blue to be honest. I'm not saying they never use red but its not a colour I particularly think of with the home kit or even recall.

I also think England football have a strong brand. Ditto the home RU nations. If they want to deviate they can without difficulty but we all know what their core design will be and what they will use most of the time. We can't say that for England RL.

As I said blue for me is every bit an england colour as red so that change doesn't particularly bother. Ditto tge chevron which is RL. I would just prefer us to stick with one standard colour pallete and design for a while. If we are ever in a position where we have built a brand and are playing 6 internationals a year then maybe I'll think differently. 

To be fair, we have stuck with white with red for almost three decades, since the 1995 World Cup. Many of the kits had the George Cross. 

And guess what? Fans complained every time

 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Just smacks Yorkshire to me, and as a proud Lancastrian* obviously don't like it

Ditch the blue sleeves or the narrow blue lines to get more white in the kit and I may be convinced

 

*Not true, born in Cheshire

It's the reduction in white that I like. I'd be very happy if they stuck with white and blue (with or without red trimming). 

Predominantly white shirts are not my favourite, and I like the fact that this is very different from anything the union mob may wear. I think some of our past ones have been too similar to theirs. 

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

To be fair, we have stuck with white with red for almost three decades, since the 1995 World Cup. Many of the kits had the George Cross. 

And guess what? Fans complained every time

 

I really dislike the Geroge's Cross designs - the best England kit we have had IMO in recent times was the 20133 World Cup kit. But it is well known as an England RL Jersey and there are ways of incorporating it without having a massive one on the front.

I have no issue with moving the brand on but to totally dump one of the core colours is just plain daft IMO - especially when there are quite a few other teams that play in Blue and White.

 

Aside from that it just looks like cheap Oxen rubbish, absolutely nothing about it screams special or high quality.

[RP London]

34 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Come on, RU have had red detail all over their shirt at times, other times blank.

England football have had plain white, or they have had white and blue, or white and red, or white and light blue.

I've already highlighted cricket that has used completely different shades of colours.

RL kits are generally a bit fussier, with more detail, so they may look more extreme, but ultimately, the approach has been similar. 

Is this abandoning a brand?

Yes that one was very "out there" for the England shirts and its a once in a blue moon type change. 

I keep saying detail is fine. bits of detail always change, of course they do otherwise you wouldnt have different shirts.. but its the predominant look that always stays the same (apart from the above one) and are instantly recognisable as England.. in whatever sport that may be. (England Hockey play in red with yellow detail... but if you know hockey you know its the England shirt when they play).. 

I keep saying I dont mind the addition of the blue.. on the other thread I said I wanted more like the GB shirt.. I had my wallet ready to go this morning for me and my son so we had it for the Greece match.. i was really excited for it... This is not an England Shirt.. its a massive let down..

If we were going white and Navy then more should have been done in the past 6 months around general branding to show this was the way we go.. after all the Blue for football is there because the FA colours are White and Navy blue.. i dont care, thats fine if that is what you chose.. but we are red and white, the badge, the new lions head supporters logo, all the communications were red and white... I just think its a massive miss.

I will keep my wallet in my pocket along with my £100+ that i would have spent and just wear the stuff i had bought for last year (which we can add to my annoyance over what has happened as i spent good money on that!).

[RP London]

38 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The above is true - you are stating facts. They have changed the secondary colour.

Ii's not a big deal, at all. 

People will either like the shirt or they won't.

 

I'll refer you to the other post as otherwise we're doubly replying... its not just a change of the secondary colour.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

Yes that one was very "out there" for the England shirts and its a once in a blue moon type change. 

I keep saying detail is fine. bits of detail always change, of course they do otherwise you wouldnt have different shirts.. but its the predominant look that always stays the same (apart from the above one) and are instantly recognisable as England.. in whatever sport that may be. (England Hockey play in red with yellow detail... but if you know hockey you know its the England shirt when they play).. 

I keep saying I dont mind the addition of the blue.. on the other thread I said I wanted more like the GB shirt.. I had my wallet ready to go this morning for me and my son so we had it for the Greece match.. i was really excited for it... This is not an England Shirt.. its a massive let down..

If we were going white and Navy then more should have been done in the past 6 months around general branding to show this was the way we go.. after all the Blue for football is there because the FA colours are White and Navy blue.. i dont care, thats fine if that is what you chose.. but we are red and white, the badge, the new lions head supporters logo, all the communications were red and white... I just think its a massive miss.

I will keep my wallet in my pocket along with my £100+ that i would have spent and just wear the stuff i had bought for last year (which we can add to my annoyance over what has happened as i spent good money on that!).

If the complaint is a change in colours, fair enough, that is a personal thing, we've had the same colours for decades and people moaned. 

We've seen Cricket and football change colours, but people like what they like. There ain't much more to it than that. 

I think this is the best England kit I've seen since I started watching them in the 90s.

[RP London]

28 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Quick 5 minutes in Photoshop, I don't think this is particularly good but I think if you want to adopt a chevron and incorporate the GB colours and blue then something like this would have been better IMO as its more subtle

you could add a little bit more red to the chevron so it dominates more but I would be very happy to part with my money for this.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

They won't be on will they? I don't think they are in SL? 

Certainly looks that way mate - unless that's just one image repeated? 

In fact just looked closer and what they've done is copy and paste the image 3 times for the option to get the free training jersey....then unbelievably they've put the junior standalone top below as well, without the sponsor. Amateur hour at it's finest once again. 

https://www.eliteprosports.co.uk/england-rugby-league/england-rugby-league-official-kit/england-rugby-league-world-cup-kit/

[Chrispmartha]

Just as an example about what I mean when were talking about Brand, look at the official England scalf that they are holding - does that look like its a scale for the team of the shirt in the middle?

Changing the colours from red and white to blue and white - OK, then do it properly.

 

That shot looks like a promo shot for two different teams that are playing each other

 

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

you could add a little bit more red to the chevron so it dominates more but I would be very happy to part with my money for this.

I think doing that would get complaints of it being a saints kit.

 

As I say it was just a quick mockup to show the incorporation of GB colours and Chevron - which seems to be why they've gone for the current one (whilst totally ignoring the red for some reason)

[hunsletgreenandgold]

31 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Quick 5 minutes in Photoshop, I don't think this is particularly good but I think if you want to adopt a chevron and incorporate the GB colours and blue then something like this would have been better IMO as its more subtle

Christ, I hope nobody looks in on this thread just now and mistakenly thinks that's what we've got! They're going to be very disappointed when they see the abomination we've ended up with. Yourself and @EastLondonMikehave pulled it out of the bag again 

[Dave T]

Just now, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Christ, I hope nobody looks in on this thread just now and mistakenly thinks that's what we've got! They're going to be very disappointed when they see the abomination we've ended up with. Yourself and @EastLondonMikehave pulled it out of the bag again 

I guarantee if Oxen had released that kit people would be complaining. 

Without question. 

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If the complaint is a change in colours, fair enough, that is a personal thing, we've had the same colours for decades and people moaned. 

We've seen Cricket and football change colours, but people like what they like. There ain't much more to it than that. 

I think this is the best England kit I've seen since I started watching them in the 90s.

The complaint is 2 fold.. I don't think the kit is very innovative.. but i can let that go a little.. 

I don't mind the addition of the Blue.. I don't see why we have dumped the red.. and I think that adds to the first complaint about it being innovative.. more could have been made of it with the addition of red detailing in it, just replacing some of the second set of blue chevrons with red would be better IMHO.. 

What I dont get is why change the shirt to Blue and red but every other bit of branding around the England team is red and white... its just inconsistent.

I';ve said it before on this, to you, if they stick with red and Navy blue and build this "iconic shirt" they keep talking about that rivals the Green and Gold etc in the consciousness then I can live with that and just hope the next shirt is a bit more "iconic" but everything shouts that they will dump this because nothing else in the branding and communications has changed from the red and white.. at which point it is an utter waste of an opportunity,

[EastLondonMike]

8 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I really dislike the Geroge's Cross designs - the best England kit we have had IMO in recent times was the 20133 World Cup kit. But it is well known as an England RL Jersey and there are ways of incorporating it without having a massive one on the front.

I have no issue with moving the brand on but to totally dump one of the core colours is just plain daft IMO - especially when there are quite a few other teams that play in Blue and White.

 

Aside from that it just looks like cheap Oxen rubbish, absolutely nothing about it screams special or high quality.

I did recently see a sports jersey (though cant recall which sport or manufacturer) who did incorporate a st.George cross, and it did look good. So it can be done. But all the England RL efforts with the cross weren't the best.

Its bugging me that i cant think of who did it.

[RP London]

4 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I think doing that would get complaints of it being a saints kit.

 

As I say it was just a quick mockup to show the incorporation of GB colours and Chevron - which seems to be why they've gone for the current one (whilst totally ignoring the red for some reason)

I was just nit picking a little with it.. the mock up you did i still think beats this TBH. for me the addition of the blue was the "get away from saints" option.. and i like the navy short to it too.

[Dave T]

Just now, RP London said:

The complaint is 2 fold.. I don't think the kit is very innovative.. but i can let that go a little.. 

I don't mind the addition of the Blue.. I don't see why we have dumped the red.. and I think that adds to the first complaint about it being innovative.. more could have been made of it with the addition of red detailing in it, just replacing some of the second set of blue chevrons with red would be better IMHO.. 

What I dont get is why change the shirt to Blue and red but every other bit of branding around the England team is red and white... its just inconsistent.

I';ve said it before on this, to you, if they stick with red and Navy blue and build this "iconic shirt" they keep talking about that rivals the Green and Gold etc in the consciousness then I can live with that and just hope the next shirt is a bit more "iconic" but everything shouts that they will dump this because nothing else in the branding and communications has changed from the red and white.. at which point it is an utter waste of an opportunity,

I completely understand your point. 

However, there are many, many examples of other better run sports than us doing the same with secondary (and sometimes primary) colours, and it not being an issue. I respectfully suggest we are over thinking it. 

But ultimately, I just think it's a very nice shirt. 

 

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I guarantee if Oxen had released that kit people would be complaining. 

Without question. 

People will always complain about design, its totally subjective.

The complain here isn't really about the design though is it

[RP London]

7 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Just as an example about what I mean when were talking about Brand, look at the official England scalf that they are holding - does that look like its a scale for the team of the shirt in the middle?

Changing the colours from red and white to blue and white - OK, then do it properly.

 

That shot looks like a promo shot for two different teams that are playing each other

 

This is the type of think that is really annoying me... 

The shirt does look much better in this photo to be honest.. still doesnt smack of "england" to me but i can see it growing on me if they were to keep with this type of look. (can someone next time take Ralphs jacket off though as it merges with the sleeve... nice to see him up and about though!)

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's the reduction in white that I like. I'd be very happy if they stuck with white and blue (with or without red trimming). 

Predominantly white shirts are not my favourite, and I like the fact that this is very different from anything the union mob may wear. I think some of our past ones have been too similar to theirs. 

The chevron is a good add. It looks different and has a league feel 

I think the England shirt and training shirt combo is a decent offer and am buying it

[Dave T]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

People will always complain about design, its totally subjective.

The complain here isn't really about the design though is it

If the main complaint is that red is missing, I've provided a handful of examples of other sports doing the same on kits. Many of these are using world class brands, way stronger than ours and Oxen's. 

[RP London]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I completely understand your point. 

However, there are many, many examples of other better run sports than us doing the same with secondary (and sometimes primary) colours, and it not being an issue. I respectfully suggest we are over thinking it. 

But ultimately, I just think it's a very nice shirt. 

 

Seeing the photo with Ralph et al the shirt does look better there and as i say i can live with this change if its permanent. However, they HAVE to get everything else in the house in order to fit with it. 

I get what you are saying about changing secondary colour but the point is with England is its not really secondary, because you don't use white in communications that much so its the primary colour for all that type of stuff, and they have changed that without changing the red on all the other bits and pieces. Other teams honestly dont do that, they tie it all together because that is just what you need to do.