England Squad

[Dunbar]

6 hours ago, Madrileño said:

The majority of them just won the NRL. 

England's backs have spent the season (well... every season!) playing against Huddersfield and Wakefield. 

They wouldn't get near that Penrith team. 

It really isn't that simple though.

Penrith are an outstanding Rugby League team but the key word here is 'team'.  They play to a very specific game plan which they execute without fault.  The backs you mention play a part in that but so do a lot of other key players.   I would suggest in fact some others who are much more important to that plan and execution. 

Brian To'o is fantastic.  He would get in any team in the world.  But after that, I don't think the backs at Penrith are head and shoulders above many others in the NRL... as I say, they play a part in a very well executed team plan.

Take them out of the team with that precision of game plan and let's see what they can do.  I am not underestimating them, similarly I am not assuming their greatness just because they are part of a great team.

The England Samoa match remains what it has always been.  A very tight game to call between two good sides.

[Mr Frisky]

6 hours ago, Madrileño said:

The majority of them just won the NRL. 

England's backs have spent the season (well... every season!) playing against Huddersfield and Wakefield. 

They wouldn't get near that Penrith team. 

But thats your opinion mate - we will see in a few weeks. Huddersfield are a very good team by the way and Penrith have been playing teams like the West Tigers...

[Madrileño]

42 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

 

The England Samoa match remains what it has always been.  A very tight game to call 

No disputing that from me.

As I said in reply to your earlier post, I think the game will be won in the middle,  and England could do it, especially if they use the approach you suggest.

I just happen to think Samoa have better backs than England. I think Wane is aware of this too, as he has alluded to possibly playing the two big NRL guys on either edge. (Which I think would make sense.)

I would probably still make England favourites though, as they are at home, in miserable weather, probably on a boggy pitch, they have a better coach, more resources, more money and more time together as a squad. They really should be beating Samoa fairly comfortably.  

 

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

No disputing that from me.

As I said in reply to your earlier post, I think the game will be won in the middle,  and England could do it, especially if they use the approach you suggest.

I just happen to think Samoa have better backs than England. I think Wane is aware of this too, as he has alluded to possibly playing the two big NRL guys on either edge. (Which I think would make sense.)

I would probably still make England favourites though, as they are at home, in miserable weather, probably on a boggy pitch, they have a better coach, more resources, more money and more time together as a squad. They really should be beating Samoa fairly comfortably.  

 

Just one thing to mention from this.  It may or may not be good weather but it won't be a boggy pitch.  It is being played on a Premiership football pitch and they are kept in immaculate condition. 

[Just Browny]

Agree with most of that but it won't be a boggy pitch: Premier League pitches have pretty high tech drainage. It might well be slippery though if it rains, and a tight game will be about controlling territory and protecting possession.

[StandOffHalf]

Newcastle soccer club won't thank you for impugning their pitch, hehe.

[Mojo]

2 hours ago, Dunbar said:

It really isn't that simple though.

Penrith are an outstanding Rugby League team but the key word here is 'team'.  They play to a very specific game plan which they execute without fault.  The backs you mention play a part in that but so do a lot of other key players.   I would suggest in fact some others who are much more important to that plan and execution. 

Brian To'o is fantastic.  He would get in any team in the world.  But after that, I don't think the backs at Penrith are head and shoulders above many others in the NRL... as I say, they play a part in a very well executed team plan.

Take them out of the team with that precision of game plan and let's see what they can do.  I am not underestimating them, similarly I am not assuming their greatness just because they are part of a great team.

The England Samoa match remains what it has always been.  A very tight game to call between two good sides.

Just say you haven't watched any Panthers games instead of this rubbish

[MattSantos]

3 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Just say you haven't watched any Panthers games instead of this rubbish

Penrith are brilliant. They're brilliant because of Cleary, Yeo, Edwards, a brutal front row and threat on the edges with Kikau and Martin. Other than To'o, the backs are not world beaters.

[Dunbar]

14 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Just say you haven't watched any Panthers games instead of this rubbish

You can always put forward a counter argument to my thoughts and we can have a sensible discussion. 

[Mojo]

19 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

Penrith are brilliant. They're brilliant because of Cleary, Yeo, Edwards, a brutal front row and threat on the edges with Kikau and Martin. Other than To'o, the backs are not world beaters.

Geez you need to watch every Panthers game to know how good that backline is.

Tylan May and Izack Tago both rookie years and they were the best center wing combination in the nrl. Tylan May is another workhorse runner like Brian To'o. But saying the Panthers system makes them better is so ignorant. That backline has a high work rate. That whole backline runs the most average meters out of any backline in the nrl. They all run over 120m every game. Tago made most defenders look silly on his opposite end and a few of those are on the kangaroos squad. Saying the reason why the panthers are dominant because of those players shows you dont watch any Panthers games to know why that team works so well. 6 Samoans in that team has a huge part to why the Panthers are so dominant.

[Mojo]

21 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

Penrith are brilliant. They're brilliant because of Cleary, Yeo, Edwards, a brutal front row and threat on the edges with Kikau and Martin. Other than To'o, the backs are not world beaters.

That Samoan backline has 3 players that would've been in the kangaroos squad at the world cup. The other 2 are rookies who we're unstoppable in that left edge all year in the nrl

[Mojo]

18 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

You can always put forward a counter argument to my thoughts and we can have a sensible discussion. 

Apologies. I just love a good debate lol

[Mojo]

@Mr Frisky Suaali'i and To'o wouldve been the starting wingers for the kangaroos. And Stephen Crichton wouldve definitely made it over Campbell in that Kangaroos squad

[SydneyRoosters]

My Opinion on the backlines-

()= Better of the two

Joseph Suaalii 1 (Sam Tomkins)

Brian To’o 2 (Tommy Makinson)

(Izack Tago) 3 Kallum Watkins

Stephen Crichton4 (Herbie Farnworth)

Taylan May 5 Dominic Young (Draw)

Jarome Luai 6 (Jack Welsby)

Anthony Milford 7 (George Williams)

England Are just simply stronger in almost every position.

[Dunbar]

24 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Tylan May and Izack Tago both rookie years and they were the best center wing combination in the nrl. 

 

6 minutes ago, Mojo said:

@Mr Frisky Suaali'i and To'o wouldve been the starting wingers for the kangaroos. And Stephen Crichton wouldve definitely made it over Campbell in that Kangaroos squad

Can I ask you to explain the contradiction here please.

If Suaali'i would have been the starting winger for the Kangaroos and his centre partner for the Roosters is Joseph Manu, who everyone agrees is the best centre in the NRL, then how are Tylan May and Izack Tago the best centre and wing combination in the NRL?

[RP London]

5 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

My Opinion on the backlines-

()= Better of the two

Joseph Suaalii 1 (Sam Tomkins)

Brian To’o 2 (Tommy Makinson)

(Izack Tago) 3 Kallum Watkins

Stephen Crichton4 (Herbie Farnworth)

Taylan May 5 Dominic Young (Draw)

Jarome Luai 6 (Jack Welsby)

Anthony Milford 7 (George Williams)

England Are just simply stronger in almost every position.

Christ I didnt realise Anthony Milford was so poor.. 

[MattSantos]

30 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Geez you need to watch every Panthers game to know how good that backline is.

Tylan May and Izack Tago both rookie years and they were the best center wing combination in the nrl. Tylan May is another workhorse runner like Brian To'o. But saying the Panthers system makes them better is so ignorant. That backline has a high work rate. That whole backline runs the most average meters out of any backline in the nrl. They all run over 120m every game. Tago made most defenders look silly on his opposite end and a few of those are on the kangaroos squad. Saying the reason why the panthers are dominant because of those players shows you dont watch any Panthers games to know why that team works so well. 6 Samoans in that team has a huge part to why the Panthers are so dominant.

My argument is that the players mentioned lay the platform for the Panthers to be dominant. That's Rugby League and why those players are paid the most money. I'd also add in the 9 who is a massive part of what Penrith do.

[Mojo]

7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

 

Can I ask you to explain the contradiction here please.

If Suaali'i would have been the starting winger for the Kangaroos and his centre partner for the Roosters is Joseph Manu, who everyone agrees is the best centre in the NRL, then how are Tylan May and Izack Tago the best centre and wing combination in the NRL?

Sure Manu and Suaali'i are both better players individually and the roosters had a very slow start to the season. I think Suaali'i didn't play until round 5 I think? But Tago and May, especially in the first half of the season were scoring tries from almost anywhere. And also breaking the line. Tago in his 3rd game of his career was making Gagai looking silly with his footwork and setting up May so well out wide. They're both 20 years old out of the Panther Under 20s so they both know each others game so well

[GeordieSaint]

I expect Sneyd will start for England in Newcastle. We’ll need his kicking game from both hand and tee. I expect Williams will partner him with Welsby coming off the bench. 

[Mojo]

8 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

My Opinion on the backlines-

()= Better of the two

Joseph Suaalii 1 (Sam Tomkins)

Brian To’o 2 (Tommy Makinson)

(Izack Tago) 3 Kallum Watkins

Stephen Crichton4 (Herbie Farnworth)

Taylan May 5 Dominic Young (Draw)

Jarome Luai 6 (Jack Welsby)

Anthony Milford 7 (George Williams)

England Are just simply stronger in almost every position.

Surely you laughed halfway through while you were typing this lol

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Sure Manu and Suaali'i are both better players individually and the roosters had a very slow start to the season. I think Suaali'i didn't play until round 5 I think? But Tago and May, especially in the first half of the season were scoring tries from almost anywhere. And also breaking the line. Tago in his 3rd game of his career was making Gagai looking silly with his footwork and setting up May so well out wide. They're both 20 years old out of the Panther Under 20s so they both know each others game so well

Ok, if you happy to admit that Manu and Suaali'i are better individual players than Tago and May but you think that the latter are the best centre and wing combination in the league then it implies that this is because they play as part of the Panthers team structure and their execution - i.e. being part of a team that executes superbly and provides them the space to work tries.

If this is the case, I wonder why you disagreed with my first post that said the Panthers backs look good because they are a part of this structure and execution.

[SydneyRoosters]

10 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Surely you laughed halfway through while you were typing this lol

Why I’ll explain my decisions.

Tomkins. Very obvious decision you’re competing a promising 19 year old winger to a two time man of steel full back with almost 300 games at the position.

Makinson. Other than running the football and evasion skills, Makinson is simply better at everything else. Wayne Bennett has even said Makinson is the best winger in the world.

Tago. On better form, showing fantastic signs at the centre position early on in his career

Farnworth. Before the injury Farnworth was on track to being dally m centre of the year. However it is quite close and I do rate Crichton massively so i wouldn’t argue with selecting Crichton out of the two.

Young/May. Both very special young talents. I couldn’t decide between the two has the have both been electric this season and specialise in different things.

Welsby. This is one I assume your laughing at. For me Welsby is a generational talent, he finished top 3 for MOS this season and is already a genuine world class player at such a young age. Luai is incredible too but I just think Welsby is a better all round player and if Welsby played in the NRL it wouldn’t even be debate of who’s better.

Williams. Pretty simple one. Both have had poor seasons and play similar games but Williams is the better of the  two.

I hope that helps you understand why I made the decisions.

Edited October 5, 2022 by SydneyRoosters

[Mojo]

1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

Ok, if you happy to admit that Manu and Suaali'i are better individual players than Tago and May but you think that the latter are the best centre and wing combination in the league then it implies that this is because they play as part of the Panthers team structure and their execution - i.e. being part of a team that executes superbly and provides them the space to work tries.

If this is the case, I wonder why you disagreed with my first post that said the Panthers backs look good because they are a part of this structure and execution.

Like I said you need to watch the Panthers games to understand what I mean. Yes the structures help but most of those tries were scored through there brilliance to break through the line in traffic and setting each other up. Yes having Cleary and luai there helps but those two did some amazing things together against some top teams individually 

[Mojo]

4 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Why I’ll explain my decisions.

Tomkins. Very obvious decision you’re competing a promising 19 year old winger to a two time man of steel full back with almost 300 games at the position.

Makinson. Other than running the football and evasion skills, Makinson is simply better at everything else. Wayne Bennett has even said Makinson is the best winger in the world.

Tago. On better form, showing fantastic signs at the centre position early on in his career

Farnworth. Before the injury Farnworth was on track to being dally m centre of the year. However it is quite close and I do rate Crichton massively so i wouldn’t argue with selecting Crichton out of the two.

Young/May. Both very special young talents. I couldn’t decide between the two has the have both been electric this season and specialise in different things.

Welsby. This is one I assume your laughing at. For me Welsby is a generational talent, he finished top 3 for MOS this season and is already a genuine world class player at such a young age. Luai is incredible too but I just think Welsby is a better all round player and if Welsby played in the NRL it wouldn’t even be debate of who’s better.

Williams. Pretty simple one. Both have had poor seasons and play similar games but Williams is the better of the  two.

I hope that helps you understand why I made the decisions.

Look I love how you have confidence on the English players but if you ask any English fan they'll pick To'o over anyone in that backline. Even you as someone who watches the nrl knows that. Suaali'i is gonna outplay Tomkins. I ain't debating that now because Suaali'i hasn't played a full game at fullback but I see Suaali'i playing very well against England.

[Mr Frisky]

29 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

My Opinion on the backlines-

()= Better of the two

Joseph Suaalii 1 (Sam Tomkins)

Brian To’o 2 (Tommy Makinson)

(Izack Tago) 3 Kallum Watkins

Stephen Crichton4 (Herbie Farnworth)

Taylan May 5 Dominic Young (Draw)

Jarome Luai 6 (Jack Welsby)

Anthony Milford 7 (George Williams)

England Are just simply stronger in almost every position.

Agree with that.