37 of 42 back IMG’s proposal

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I believe January will be an initial criteria release, possibly only to clubs themselves. Next year is a "dry run" so to speak, with grades given at the end but no actual action taken based on them from that year.

I have asked you before, where do you get your info from?

But thanks for sharing.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Harry Stottle

[GUBRATS]

5 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Stadium as a whole will be a license grading assessment criteria undoubtedly, but within that criteria there will be several factors that allow clubs to score points. Ownership will be one, condition of the stadium, revenue generation from the stadium, all likely to be individual assessments that will contribute to an overall score for that particular category. What we don't know is if within any particular category there are minimum requirements that bar a club from achieving an A grade license. So if one of those minimums is stadium ownership then Wigan are screwed. Having said that IMO I don't think they will make ownership a minimum requirement, but I certainly think being an owner will contribute to your overall category score and increase your chances of an A License.

We don't yet know the overall criteria list but I would guess that along-side stadium others will likely be, On field results over a set number of years, Academy & player generation, overall financial stability (revenue generation, profitability, risk of financial collapse etc.) 

So the same old , decide who we want and fit the criteria around that 

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I have asked you before, where do you get your info from?

But thanks for sharing.

That shall have to remain private till discussed over a pint mate.

[Harry Stottle]

15 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That shall have to remain private till discussed over a pint mate.

Look forward to it Tommy.

[Wakefield Ram]

23 hours ago, DimmestStar said:

Paul Lakin told us at the Hull KR fans forum that he expects IMG to award only 4 category A licences.

@Blind side johnny. Paul Lakin is CEO of Hull KR hence my comment. So who is making the decisions, what's the criteria and who is control?

 

[Wakefield Ram]

5 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Correct.

It's an exciting development, really. IMG is dangling a big carrot to invest in Super League (or whatever it'll be called) not just to the clubs but potential investors in clubs. 

Big backers buy into soccer clubs because they have very large revenue's and possibility of making money by leveraging like the Glazers have. The revenues in RL are tiny in comparison. 

https://www.90min.com/posts/how-much-money-the-glazers-are-taking-out-of-man-utd

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Wakefield Ram

[Man of Kent]

15 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Big backers buy into soccer clubs because they have very large revenue's and possibility of making money by leveraging like the Glazers have. The revenues in RL are tiny in comparison. 

https://www.90min.com/posts/how-much-money-the-glazers-are-taking-out-of-man-utd

 

But so too are the investments, and by guaranteeing elite status for A-grade clubs IMG is giving a level of protection (and exit strategy) football doesn’t necessarily offer. 

[Wakefield Ram]

47 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

But so too are the investments, and by guaranteeing elite status for A-grade clubs IMG is giving a level of protection (and exit strategy) football doesn’t necessarily offer. 

St Helens revenue £6m Man Utd £600m. Glazers took over ManUtd with money borrowed using club as collateral. The link explains it. The money in RL is peanuts. 

[Man of Kent]

13 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

St Helens revenue £6m Man Utd £600m. Glazers took over ManUtd with money borrowed using club as collateral. The link explains it. The money in RL is peanuts. 

It is relatively. But presumably there’s growth potential or IMG wouldn’t have signed a 12-year agreement.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

8 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

An invitation-only league, where the competition adds new teams by expanding the number in the comp, on the basis of an increase in media rights values to cover the cost or at least the new team bringing something that's likely to increase the value of those media rights in the next buying cycle.

It's how most commercialised sports leagues work around the world - the British / football P&R model is an outlier 

You then have teams in next-grade comps playing for their own competition victory, rather than the illusory benefits of 'promotion', whilst acting as farm teams or development pools for elite talent

 

Thanks for your post, HKB.

This is an interesting point, well made.  In this country, our mindset is so dominated by current soccer practice (though old fogeys like me can recall a time when entry into the Football League, as it was then called, was not automatic) that it is easy for us to overlook other practices in other sports.

Unusually if not uniquely for contributors to these fora, I have been a fan of a team in a sport where there is no automatic promotion and relegation.  The sport is ice hockey and 'my' team the Basingstoke Bison.  They play at the tier below the Elite League, namely the national division of the English National League.  All their fans - me included - look forward to the end of season playoffs not because they will lead to promotion to the Elite League - they won't - but because this is a good competition to win in its own right.  

I just wish we could have, in RL, a second tier like English ice hockey's, in which, historically, the teams have been very evenly matched, unlike RL's current championship with its odd mix of full-time and part-time clubs.

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Thanks for your post, HKB.

This is an interesting point, well made.  In this country, our mindset is so dominated by current soccer practice (though old fogeys like me can recall a time when entry into the Football League, as it was then called, was not automatic) that it is easy for us to overlook other practices in other sports.

Unusually if not uniquely for contributors to these fora, I have been a fan of a team in a sport where there is no automatic promotion and relegation.  The sport is ice hockey and 'my' team the Basingstoke Bison.  They play at the tier below the Elite League, namely the national division of the English National League.  All their fans - me included - look forward to the end of season playoffs not because they will lead to promotion to the Elite League - they won't - but because this is a good competition to win in its own right.  

I just wish we could have, in RL, a second tier like English ice hockey's, in which, historically, the teams have been very evenly matched, unlike RL's current championship with its odd mix of full-time and part-time clubs.

We could have 

But interest in them would be less than we have now 

How many people are interested in Basingstoke Bisons ?

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Wakefield Ram said:

St Helens revenue £6m Man Utd £600m. Glazers took over ManUtd with money borrowed using club as collateral. The link explains it. The money in RL is peanuts. 

 

51 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

It is relatively. But presumably there’s growth potential or IMG wouldn’t have signed a 12-year agreement.

Whilst making a bob or two may be the aim for some in sport, in reality for a vast number of investors, it is a donation for them. They never expect to make money back. 

Often they are a plaything, a prestige thing, a civic pride thing, and sometimes it is all about running your club that you supported as a kid. 

In RL you can still get those sporting highs - leading your team out at Wembley or Old Trafford, or heading to Oz for the WCC - but the money required is a lot less than some sports, and that opens it up to a lot more investors. 

[Madrileño]

48 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

unlike RL's current championship with its odd mix of full-time and part-time clubs.

Apart from Leigh, which championship clubs this year were professional?

[Man of Kent]

7 hours ago, Dave T said:

 

Whilst making a bob or two may be the aim for some in sport, in reality for a vast number of investors, it is a donation for them. They never expect to make money back. 

Often they are a plaything, a prestige thing, a civic pride thing, and sometimes it is all about running your club that you supported as a kid. 

In RL you can still get those sporting highs - leading your team out at Wembley or Old Trafford, or heading to Oz for the WCC - but the money required is a lot less than some sports, and that opens it up to a lot more investors. 

I get all of that, David, and I’m not saying RL is a gold mine or there’ll be a gold rush.

What I am saying is the IMG plan reduces investment risk by giving A-grade clubs certain rights. They become more of an asset. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Man of Kent

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

I get all of that, David, and I’m not saying RL is a gold mine or there’ll be a gold rush.

What I am saying is the IMG plan reduces investment risk by giving A-grade clubs certain rights. They become more of an asset. 

Yes, I was broadly agreeing with you. 

[Wakefield Ram]

9 hours ago, Dave T said:

 

Whilst making a bob or two may be the aim for some in sport, in reality for a vast number of investors, it is a donation for them. They never expect to make money back. 

Often they are a plaything, a prestige thing, a civic pride thing, and sometimes it is all about running your club that you supported as a kid. 

In RL you can still get those sporting highs - leading your team out at Wembley or Old Trafford, or heading to Oz for the WCC - but the money required is a lot less than some sports, and that opens it up to a lot more investors. 

Whilst that may be true for most clubs, it might be worth a look at the link I posted which shows how many hundreds of millions Glazers have made out of Man Utd. 

https://www.90min.com/posts/how-much-money-the-glazers-are-taking-out-of-man-utd

Edited November 24, 2022 by Wakefield Ram

[Wakefield Ram]

10 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

It is relatively. But presumably there’s growth potential or IMG wouldn’t have signed a 12-year agreement.

Both sides will have an exit clause. The last long term "strategic partnership" I worked with ended prematurely with the client suing the strategic partner for failure to deliver. 

[Saint Toppy]

11 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

St Helens revenue £6m Man Utd £600m. Glazers took over ManUtd with money borrowed using club as collateral. The link explains it. The money in RL is peanuts. 

Its all relative though. Their revenues may be 100 times greater but their outgoings are significantly higher. Their player salaries alone are over £230M a year and by the time you add in all the other staff & directors their salary bill is probably close to £1/4Bn a year.

[Guest]

Having some limited knowledge of IMG and how they work, my hope is one thing they will improve is the presentation of the product on TV and social media. They are very good at that.

We need to move away from looking like the broadcast is from a portacabin. 

[Saint Toppy]

14 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

So the same old , decide who we want and fit the criteria around that 

We don't know the exact criteria yet but from what IMG have said so far its more the case of "we've had enough of top flight clubs playing in crappy old stadia with poor facilities, clubs being poor at producing players, and clubs lurching from one near bankruptcy to the next year after year".

Ultimately what they're saying is if you want a guaranteed place in SL every year then get your house in order and improve. If you don't, can't or won't then you won't get an A License and in the short term that means the risk of relegation every year, and in the long term probably means losing your SL place altogether.

[Dave T]

36 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Whilst that may be true for most clubs, it might be worth a look at the link I posted which shows how many hundreds of millions Glazers have made out of Man Utd. 

https://www.90min.com/posts/how-much-money-the-glazers-are-taking-out-of-man-utd

Yes, I acknowledge that some are after money, but as per my post, the vast majority are spending money rather than making it. 

Outside of the huge clubs that can be built as assets, we have scores of smaller football clubs that are money pits, as are Rugby clubs of both codes. 

There are far better ways of making money for millionaires. 

[Saint Toppy]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, I acknowledge that some are after money, but as per my post, the vast majority are spending money rather than making it. 

Outside of the huge clubs that can be built as assets, we have scores of smaller football clubs that are money pits, as are Rugby clubs of both codes. 

There are far better ways of making money for millionaires. 

RL will never match football and while increased revenues in the game is desirable I don't think its necessarily IMG's immediate goal. Having a SL made up of clubs that are stable and financially viable is probably their first target and then they can focus on growth off the back of this.

Looking at a club like Saints their last set of posted financials from 2021 may not be big in numbers but aren't too bad, especially coming off the back of the Covid pandemic with all the hits they took from it;

Turnover £6.95M, Assets £32.04M, Liabilities £30.21M, Cash in Bank £1.15M

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

I just wish we could have, in RL, a second tier like English ice hockey's, in which, historically, the teams have been very evenly matched, unlike RL's current championship with its odd mix of full-time and part-time clubs.

But it is that system of advancement to the next level through the on field results that dictates to the RL clubs to be the best they can, invest in better players and if they so wish and can afford it go full time, if the same rules applied as you describe in 2nd Tier English Ice Hockey where there is no promotion there is no target as such to aim for and going that extra step in player investment is unnecessary.

Last pre season Featherstone Rovers looked like they were going to be unassailable in their quest to win the Championship gong, then Leigh from a virtual standing start responded, I just don't get this criticism that Fev and Leigh spoiled the Championship, without doubt the most eagerly awaited and best games of the season were the matchups contested between these two, but this is the phschy of British RL fans, instead of having a want a desire for other clubs to better themselves in a bottom to top up approach, they want to reverse that and bring the top clubs down to the level of the others.

Anyway, I think you and others may well get your wish if this grading system acheives the light of day, soon realisation that there will be no transfer of clubs between the SL and Championship will happen, the wealthier 'B' clubs - those in the top flight - with SL funding will always have the upper hand, in time those ambitious Championship clubs will lose their enthusiasm to invest both on and off the field and in turn the speccies will drift away, the community game will be affected with the apathy towards RL that will grow beyond SL towns and in time will affect the future player production - they are not all born in Wigan, Leeds and St. Helen's - I just hope those at the RFL have really thought this through.

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Madrileño said:

Apart from Leigh, which championship clubs this year were professional?

Newcastle, but soon realised that investing £1 was futile when £100 was required.

[Mathius Hellwege]

Every soccer comparison is irrelevant

 

And..return on investment is usually measured in percent and not absolute Euros

 

so developing Sheffield to an A-Grade-club can be very profitable

 

and if you are doing for the emotions, it does not matter anyway