RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Dave T]

42 minutes ago, Leonard said:

2013 they did 24k for England v Fiji and 7k for the two other group games. 

And the two 7k games probably had cheap pricing. 

Hull KR also got 5.3k for 4n game of Australia v Scotland. The signs were there. Flashing. 

[Dirkgee]

What does everyone think the next crowds will be?

I think 10500 for Tonga Samoa

18000 for Australia NZ

48000 for England v Tonga/Samoa

71000 for the final, bit less if England don't make it

[Damien]

24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Nah, it isn't. It shows it pretty clear during conversions too on TV. That stand remained about half full. 

 

It was more than half full Dave, you posted a picture that shows that and that excludes all the people in the concourse and hospitality too.

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I know it can never be worked out but I'd love to know what we look like in comparison to some of those competitions that get mentioned a lot in this thread in terms of the number of different people who attend.

For example, 752,000 people apparently attended the 2019 Cricket World Cup in England. I went to one game. The highest number of games that I know of anyone else attending was three. There were 48 matches. It was similar for the women's Euros: I went to two. I met one person, an outlier, who was going to six games. Everyone else I know, who attended at all, went to a maximum of three, but, more usually one or two.

That's not the case with the RLWC, is it? Everyone who is going seems to be going to multiple games. (I know this board distorts the view). But from 'the socials' it does look like it's the same people going (or not going) to each match.

Like I say, can't ever be broken down but I think it does speak to the issue being greater than pricing and more to do with just how small our audience is. Even with free rugby league every day, eventually some folk would go, "You know what? I think I might give it a miss today and go to the game next week instead."

We just don't have enough people.

It absolutely is an issue, and when I talk about pricing, it is within the context of the saturation of fixtures for existing fans. 

£25 may seem OK on the surface (I disagree, but others say its fine), but in the context of having a choice of up to a dozen other WC games locally over 6 weeks it means games are just not must-see. 

The report for 2012 shows something like the average number of games attended was pretty low, something like 2(ish), and I think it was low because of geographical spread and the fact that big games were in Cardiff and London, and towns only had a maximum of 2 games. 

Crowds at Riverside and Coventry have shown that there are fewer issues with charging full price (putting aside appropriate venues), but charging full price in towns like Wire, Leigh, Saints has been bizarre. 

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Dirkgee said:

What does everyone think the next crowds will be?

I think 10500 for Tonga Samoa

18000 for Australia NZ

48000 for England v Tonga/Samoa

71000 for the final, bit less if England don't make it

I'd be really disappointed if Tonga v Samoa doesn't reach 5 figures.

[Just Browny]

16 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

 

I don't think double headers work and that was a prime example of it.

 

Whoever has concluded I am hard enough to survive five hours outside in November in the 'comforts' of Old Trafford has severely overestimated me, can't wait for that one.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Just Browny

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Just Browny said:

Whoever had concluded I am hard enough to survive five hours outside in November in the 'comforts' of Old Trafford has severely overestimated me, can't wait for that one.

Meh.

Just think of it as training for staying in a salubrious Hastings caravan park.

[Just Browny]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Meh.

Just think of it as training for staying in a salubrious Hastings caravan park.

Yes, at least this time I don't have to run a half marathon the next day so if all my joints seize up the immediate consequences are less severe.

[Archie Gordon]

It still feels bizarre to me that we are waiting for our first men's or women's RLWC game in London or the South this deep into the comp. And a bit insulting tbh.

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

gonna be interesting to read the post competition report if it is ever published.

I know we are all looking at the competition in general with the benefit of hindsight, but it’s been said throughout the tournament by RL fans living in the likes of Coventry, Newcastle, London and the heartlands, that the publicity outside of RL circles has been next to non-existent.

the RFL strategy seems to have been a ‘build it and they will come’ attitude, bombarding RL fans with emails telling them games are approaching sell outs, too many games within a short distance of each other, and not using the competition to try and entice new supporters to the game by offering reasonably priced tickets.

the ticketing website has also been nothing short of a disaster, lost count of how many times I tried to buy tickets for Newcastle before I finally managed to log on and get some.

Without doubt the game needs a full international calendar, annual autumn tests or an expanded Tri-Nations to a four team comp would be the way to go for me, I would even change the formula and instead of inviting the Aussies every year, I would alternative between Tonga, Samua, NZ, Australia, Fiji and to really create some interest one of NSW or Queensland State of Origin as the State of Origin games have a really high profile in the UK and would be easy to sell.

this World Cup has just highlighted the damage done by not having regular international fixtures and the rebuilding process needs to start now 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Death to the Rah Rah's

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

It was more than half full Dave, you posted a picture that shows that and that excludes all the people in the concourse and hospitality too.

I'm not interested in seat counting, you may be right about not being 50%, I was basing that even populated sections having plenty empty. The higher resolution photos and naked eye shows that better. 

But as per my posts, tbh, I'm not worried about that crowd, it's probably what we would expect (or hope for) based on this WC. It was fine (and a good atmosphere and event imo). 

My questioning was purely on the point about we count tickets sold, despite RLWC organisers stating we don't, and also there wasn't a single "almost sold out" message from organisers, which is odd for 23k+ tickets sold in a 25k ground.

Tbh, I have a bit of a suspicion that they have lost control of sales a touch and maybe they were worried about some #### up and we would be sat on each others knees

[Just Browny]

8 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

It still feels bizarre to me that we are waiting for our first men's or women's RLWC game in London or the South this deep into the comp. And a bit insulting tbh.

It is bizarre and insulting.

That said if the London semi gets a bigger crowd than all four of the QFs put together, we can safely name London as the new heartland.

[Dave T]

42 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I agree with this.

And yet it shouldn't be true in Hull should it? Both of the teams in the city have a higher average attendance than last night's game, and the Derby two months ago brought in 17,000.

Also, all those saying Friday's game should have been at Leeds are completely ignoring the saturation effects we have seen at other grounds during this competition, including at Leeds itself on the first weekend. A quarter final at Headingley would have had a direct negative effect on Elland Road ticket sales.

Yes, I was going to make that point about Leeds. 

Whilst Leeds has returned some good grounds, it hasn't been immune to the issues. They returned a paltry crowd for Jam/Ire and also have a semi final next week. The saturation level may be higher at Headingley, but there will absolutely be one and we would probably have hit it hard with a 5th mens game in the city. 

[GeordieSaint]

32 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Hull KR also got 5.3k for 4n game of Australia v Scotland. The signs were there. Flashing. 

There’s no international rugby league brand anymore. It’s been broken due to a lack of activity. There’s significant apathy in the old heartland locations to the sport outside of the season ticket culture. Lots to do. Lots and lots. 

But there are green shoots as well. But they are not in the heartlands. They are in Northeast and in Coventry. The attendances up in Newcastle and surprisingly in Coventry were good. There’s a lesson there when it comes to international rugby. 

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

It still feels bizarre to me that we are waiting for our first men's or women's RLWC game in London or the South this deep into the comp. And a bit insulting tbh.

Agreed. I don't understand why there hasn't been 1 per round. 

[Dave T]

Just now, GeordieSaint said:

There’s no international rugby league brand anymore. It’s been broken due to a lack of activity. There’s significant apathy in the old heartland locations to the sport outside of the season ticket culture. Lots to do. Lots and lots. 

But there are green shoots as well. But they are not in the heartlands. They are in Northeast and in Coventry. The attendances up in Newcastle and surprisingly in Coventry were good. There’s a lesson there when it comes to international rugby. 

We shouldn't be too downbeat on the heartlands. We are coming to the wrong conclusion if we decide that the heartlands don't support international RL. It may not be at the levels we want, but the vast majority of the numbers are coming in the heartlands. 

But, we have always seen that taking games outside of the areas sees us do relatively well. 

The big issue is that we have good and bad crowds wherever we stage them, we need to stage them well, market them and price them appropriately. 

[Gomersall]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We shouldn't be too downbeat on the heartlands. We are coming to the wrong conclusion if we decide that the heartlands don't support international RL. It may not be at the levels we want, but the vast majority of the numbers are coming in the heartlands. 

But, we have always seen that taking games outside of the areas sees us do relatively well. 

The big issue is that we have good and bad crowds wherever we stage them, we need to stage them well, market them and price them appropriately. 

GJ touched on the reliance of too small a number of supporters in the heartlands who only have so much disposable income, especially in the current climate.

[Gomersall]

56 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Whoever has concluded I am hard enough to survive five hours outside in November in the 'comforts' of Old Trafford has severely overestimated me, can't wait for that one.

Were you at the Ricoh for the 4N double header?

Edited November 6, 2022 by Gomersall

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

10 hours ago, Padge said:

I was sat in that stand and it got massively fuller, a huge block shown in that photo just behind us suddenly filled, I had just said that doesn't look good to my wife and then next glance was where the fk did they all come from.

There were loads of people came out of the corporate boxes all at the same time just before the kick off

[Dave T]

34 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'd be really disappointed if Tonga v Samoa doesn't reach 5 figures.

I agree, but based on us not really achieving anything we've aimed for, I am worried about that 10k.

The positive is that Wire has looked good with 6k in, so hopefully around 10k will come across well. 

So far we've had a good event for England (with royalty) along with a great win, a classic game last night, and we should have a cracker today. 

The only bad thing is that  taking my daughter to a kids party until 3pm, so will miss some of today's game, probably watching on delay

[Gomersall]

59 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I agree with this.

And yet it shouldn't be true in Hull should it? Both of the teams in the city have a higher average attendance than last night's game, and the Derby two months ago brought in 17,000.

Also, all those saying Friday's game should have been at Leeds are completely ignoring the saturation effects we have seen at other grounds during this competition, including at Leeds itself on the first weekend. A quarter final at Headingley would have had a direct negative effect on Elland Road ticket sales.

As I said previously IMO most RL fans in Hull are fans of Hull or Rovers and rarely, if ever, attend matches as a neutral. Sad but true.

[RL Tragic]

50 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Hull KR also got 5.3k for 4n game of Australia v Scotland. The signs were there. Flashing. 

Good point Back to one of the big issues, it’s not like the organisers didn’t have any precedents or hadn’t hosted a World Cup before. If I hear them say lessons should be learned I will scream.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

GJ touched on the reliance of too small a number of supporters in the heartlands who only have so much disposable income, especially in the current climate.

Yep, and absolutely agree with that as per one of my replies. 

We should also remember that we have focused on very narrow parts of the heartlands, excluding many towns that did well in 2013.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

I know it can never be worked out but I'd love to know what we look like in comparison to some of those competitions that get mentioned a lot in this thread in terms of the number of different people who attend.

For example, 752,000 people apparently attended the 2019 Cricket World Cup in England. I went to one game. The highest number of games that I know of anyone else attending was three. There were 48 matches. It was similar for the women's Euros: I went to two. I met one person, an outlier, who was going to six games. Everyone else I know, who attended at all, went to a maximum of three, but, more usually one or two.

That's not the case with the RLWC, is it? Everyone who is going seems to be going to multiple games. (I know this board distorts the view). But from 'the socials' it does look like it's the same people going (or not going) to each match.

Like I say, can't ever be broken down but I think it does speak to the issue being greater than pricing and more to do with just how small our audience is. Even with free rugby league every day, eventually some folk would go, "You know what? I think I might give it a miss today and go to the game next week instead."

We just don't have enough people.

SJP, Sheffield and London all brought in or will bring in decent non traditional RL fans.

Boro and Coventry to a lesser degree but still fine for the games, even if the stadium size was unnecessary. 

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, Dirkgee said:

What does everyone think the next crowds will be?

I think 10500 for Tonga Samoa

18000 for Australia NZ

48000 for England v Tonga/Samoa

71000 for the final, bit less if England don't make it

Sounds about right. Although an England win will sell out OT. Not sure of the figures to date but men's comp tracking maybe 410k to 420k?

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Leonard