Tommygilf Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Agbrigg said: Well if thats the end of wane, then i hope mcillorum goes in the same taxi. Has to be. England in 2025 has to look completely different. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Jughead said: Bennett was sacked for less. My thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live after death Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, Renegade1987 said: If Samoa give Australia a game in the final then his position won't be called into question. If Australia walk it then people might question his position. To be fair, he best this side 60-6 in the first game. The problem with test games are that if you have a bad game beyond the group stages that's you done and that's what happened today. Wane isn't the man on the pitch and we weren't trounced. Announce our test games for next year and let's see how we get on. I doubt any southern hemispheres sides will want to come over here, why would they not enough competition, England will be begging France for a game 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Live after death said: I doubt any southern hemispheres sides will want to come over here, why would they not enough competition, England will be begging France for a game Some of us on here have been banging this drum for years. There is going to come a point where the NRL and its peripheral national teams do not need to come to the Northern Hemisphere or play the teams here if we carry on the way we do. The only way England stop that is by working with the Pacific Island, NZ and most importantly the NH sides to bring them up to a standard whereby Australia aren't the be all and end all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin James Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, Jughead said: Bennett was sacked for less. Bennett was absolutely dreadful. Awful rugby with England, destroyed the GB brand with a shambolic tour, didn't engage with the media. Reached the WC final but it wasn't enjoyable and for all the talk of ankle taps we never looked like winning it if we are honest. We've played one bad game and it has cost us but you can't judge a coach on one game when individual errors have lost the game. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 If he picks McIlorum ever again he should instantly get the boot. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Just now, Colin James said: Bennett was absolutely dreadful. Awful rugby with England, destroyed the GB brand with a shambolic tour, didn't engage with the media. Reached the WC final but it wasn't enjoyable and for all the talk of ankle taps we never looked like winning it if we are honest. We've played one bad game and it has cost us but you can't judge a coach on one game when individual errors have lost the game. Wane was the first England coach to be guaranteed a route to the World Cup final, at home, that didn't include playing the Australians or Kiwis. He failed, his squad failed. 2 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Just now, dkw said: If he picks McIlorum ever again he should instantly get the boot. Shouldn't even get to that stage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jughead Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Just now, Colin James said: Bennett was absolutely dreadful. Awful rugby with England, destroyed the GB brand with a shambolic tour, didn't engage with the media. Reached the WC final but it wasn't enjoyable and for all the talk of ankle taps we never looked like winning it if we are honest. We've played one bad game and it has cost us but you can't judge a coach on one game when individual errors have lost the game. The GB tour and timing of it was farcical a year out from an Ashes series and two (at the time) from a World Cup. England’s MO was to win the final, Wane’s said it himself numerous times. They failed that objective and his job should be reviewed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jughead said: The GB tour and timing of it was farcical a year out from an Ashes series and two (at the time) from a World Cup. England’s MO was to win the final, Wane’s said it himself numerous times. They failed that objective and his job should be reviewed. Reaching the final was the bare minimum, and it is obvious to everyone that as much as was possible was done to ensure England wouldn't play Oz or NZ till the final (to avoid a 2013 style semi final exit ironically). I wouldn't be surprised if Wane himself resigns tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live after death Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Reaching the final was the bare minimum, and it is obvious to everyone that as much as was possible was done to ensure England wouldn't play Oz or NZ till the final (to avoid a 2013 style semi final exit ironically). I wouldn't be surprised if Wane himself resigns tbh. I hope so and hopefully the last we see if bateman mclorum Tompkins hill. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleEyePie Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 We either reach a semi final or get to a final and lose regardless of who the coach is. Bennett performed well, then performed terribly (albeit as GB, but that wasn't enough to save him). McNamara oversaw some terrible performances but also managed to improve his reputation while England coach but still won nothing. No England coach will ever win anything until we have a team capable of it. Its utterly pointless to keep changing the coach when we've seen pretty much nothing change as a result. Ultimately Wane made some squad selections that I thought were poor, but ultimately he didn't bomb a try from a good cross field kick, that was Makinson. He didn't drop the ball over the line when it was arguably harder not to score, that was Watkins. He didn't switch off and gift Samoa two easy tries, that was Watkins and Welsby. He didn't gift Samoa field position twice in golden point by trying to be cocky and then overrunning the play at the ruck, that was Welsby. Just like all the positive things that England did were the players, rather than the coach. There's not much a coach can do at this level except pick the team and set a game plan that they hope the team will stick to. Until we can field a team with real strength and real depth and with players at the top of their game we're not going to take the next step and win a tournament. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Just now, Live after death said: I hope so and hopefully the last we see if bateman mclorum Tompkins hill. Agreed. It needs a refresh. I don't mind Wane as a coach, tactically I don't think you can read too much into him from England tbh. What you can see is his squad selection, and whilst some have been belters, Radley and Young for example, too much faith has been placed in past it players who are not good enough at this level (any more). I don't have faith in him to not go with a similar strategy in France '25. Everything now should be about winning that competition. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 I would add, perhaps as mitigating circumstances for Wane, the preparation and planning for this tournament from the RFL perspective has been dire. In a 4 year cycle since the last world cup: we decided to keep a coach it was clear many weren't happy with, then play as GB for an expensive nostalgia trip for the CEO, then sack said coach for not wanting to play as GB, then appointing a new coach with effectively 1 international window before a world cup. Within that shamozzle there were so many little errors that just seem like really no one had a clue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agbrigg Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 The trouble with our game is that it is skewed too much in favour of winning penalties and six agains. The top teams are the ones who are also the most skillfull in getting the referee calls to help them get the upper hand. I dont think there was one head high shot given in that game today and far less of the various PTB infringments. This competition has been officiated far better in my opinion and puts more emphasis on the requirement to get basic rugby skills right in order to win games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Rover Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Agbrigg said: Well if thats the end of wane, then i hope mcillorum goes in the same taxi. For all of Wanes talk about how he would only pick form players you just knew that certain players were bound to be picked and McIlorum would be one of them. Although if he had picked more dynamic hookers who could run from dummy half they would have been wasted. From what I remember from Wigan under Wane the hookers rarely ran, if ever. I think it is something Wane just doesn’t seem to like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agbrigg Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said: Although if he had picked more dynamic hookers who could run from dummy half they would have been wasted. From what I remember from Wigan under Wane the hookers rarely ran, if ever. I think it is something Wane just doesn’t seem to like. And yet the best team in the competition has two hookers who are devastating doing exactly that. I think Grant especially will run those big samoan forwards ragged in the final 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby123 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Renegade1987 said: If Samoa give Australia a game in the final then his position won't be called into question. If Australia walk it then people might question his position. To be fair, he best this side 60-6 in the first game. The problem with test games are that if you have a bad game beyond the group stages that's you done and that's what happened today. Wane isn't the man on the pitch and we weren't trounced. Announce our test games for next year and let's see how we get on. The ridiculous results leading up to this semi probably put everyone into a "comfort zone"., plus the fact that some of the players selected have not been breaking any pots for their clubs. This result may and should shed a new light on the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 If the team had played Wane-ball in the last 20 minutes and extra time, we'd have probably won. You could see from his reaction they weren't doing what he wanted. They blew it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legend Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 It didn't work out for him today but I think he's done OK. He's chosen players in their correct positions and we've played some attractive stuff under him in this World Cup. I don't have too much problem with him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legend Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 It didn't work out for him today but I think he's done OK. He's chosen players in their correct positions and we've played some attractive stuff under him in this World Cup. I don't have too much problem with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legend Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 It didn't work out for him today but I think he's done OK. He's chosen players in their correct positions and we've played some attractive stuff under him in this World Cup. I don't have too much problem with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Live after death said: I hope so and hopefully the last we see if bateman mclorum Tompkins hill. Hill will drop out after this due to his age but he has been great in this WC for England- Tomkins did nothing wrongs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jughead Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Bateman (32), Burgess (33), Cooper (37), Hall (37), Hill (38), Makinson (34), McIlorum (37), Sneyd (34), Tomkins (36), Watkins (34), Whitehead (36). That’s the ages of a selection of England players in three years. For many of those above, today was their last chance at a World Cup win, so you won’t have to worry about McIlorum or Hill in future, anyway. That’s without mentioning Lomax (35), Walmsley (35) and Farrell (35). It’s really a passing of the baton between now and the 2025 World Cup. The future is in the players like Jack Welsby, Herbie Farnworth, Lewis Dodd, Morgan Knowles, Mik Oledzki, Victor Radley KPP, Dom Young and a handful of players who will likely remain. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Tommygilf said: Has to be. England in 2025 has to look completely different. Green chevron? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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