FIFA WORLD CUP 2022

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

TBH,if England have to rely on penalties to score rather than score through play it's pretty poor.

Teams do generally give away penalties to prevent a goal scoring opportunity though.

[Maximus Decimus]

Typical glorious victory for England. Seen us play much much worse and go out.

Maybe didn't deserve to lose, and hard to take Kane missing the pen.

I'm starting to think It's coming home is like chasing the dragon.

[gingerjon]

9 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

footballs not coming home again then?

We won the Euros this summer.

[gingerjon]

England were unlucky, France were the better side though and looked to always have a bit more to give if required.

[Damien]

England gave it a good go and it was another of those 50/50 games where we come off second best at the end. There is no doubt though that this England team contain an exciting crop of young players who play with no fear.

[EagleEyePie]

It's hard to know exactly how to judge the England performances in this world cup. On the one hand we were fairly comfortable in the group stages. Terrible against USA but other top teams suffered defeats so in context it's not too bad. Scored plenty of goals, played well but also didn't really face quality opposition until tonight and came up short. On the one hand it's falling at the first tough test. On the other hand you can only play what's in front of you and France were slight favourites for a reason and the reigning champions.

Southgate seems to have done a really good job and it's hard to be too critical because of how many previous England managers failed to even reach these stages of tournaments. However, Saka was our most threatening player and he took him off (and left the largely anonymous Foden on). Saka's biggest threat was coming from taking on the French defence who were unbelievably clumsy and rash when put under pressure. Grealish loves to take players on but is left on the bench until there's only 2 minutes left. Southgate seems too cautious to really make a difference with his substitutions, but hopefully there's enough quality in the current group of England players that it won't always be an issue.

[moorside roughyed]

32 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

footballs not coming home again then?

It certainly isn't. With the money they are on,they should be able to play on the moon.

[moorside roughyed]

24 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

We won the Euros this summer.

Wasn't that the women?

[Maximus Decimus]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

It's acknowledged around the world, except England, that England got some very favourable calls in the tournament. Hosts often do. The sending off of Rattin - at a time when sendings off were extremely rare - is one example. The famous goal that only (some) English people genuinely believe is a goal is another.

To bring it back to the naked jingoism on display though: the Dutch were as bad, if not worse, throughout the game, as Argentina. The entire bench rushing on the field for a scrap for example. The outright hostility they have *for each other* is part of what made the game so compelling.

It isn't at all relevant in a discussion about dirty players.

There is a real perverse attempt amongst many in our society, to try and make everything about how bad the English really are and nobody else can really be objectively bad.

That's why you really brought it up. 

[The Masked Poster]

Well I thought the referee was atrocious. The second penalty wasn't even his decision and apart from France scoring their first goal after a foul and numerous ignored fouls on Saka he was pants 

Oh and yeah, I'm fairly neutral here and when England are beaten by a better side, I'll happily admit it. I don't think they were tonight though.

Now to get behind Croatia. A great place with lovely people. 

[Adelaide Tiger]

Four years ago on this site - after England had lost to Croatia - in the WC semi final - I posted something akin to …..

‘if England play a team that is physically weaker and not as technically skilled then England win easily.  If England play a team that is physically weaker but equal in technical ability or vice versa then England rarely lose but sometimes struggle.  If England play a team that is equally as strong physically and technically superior then they rarely win’.  

So nothing new at this WC.

[gingerjon]

10 hours ago, moorside roughyed said:

Wasn't that the women?

Indeed. 2-1 over Germany in the final.

Football came home. The song can be retired now.

[gingerjon]

9 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Four years ago on this site - after England had lost to Croatia - in the WC semi final - I posted something akin to …..

‘if England play a team that is physically weaker and not as technically skilled then England win easily.  If England play a team that is physically weaker but equal in technical ability or vice versa then England rarely lose but sometimes struggle.  If England play a team that is equally as strong physically and technically superior then they rarely win’.  

So nothing new at this WC.

Except this really was a game that could have gone either way and England were a missed penalty away from going into extra time against the clear favourites and current World Champions.

Don't understand the moping some people are drifting into.

[gingerjon]

10 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

That's why you really brought it up. 

No, I brought it up because Rattin was brought up as an example of how those Argies are always dirty, graceless cheats. A nasty, jingoistic point of view that deserves to be challenged. I suppose I could have posted a video of Ricky Villa to counter it but I figured another way would be to point out that the same knuckle dragging views are seen in some people's views of England, its fans, its players etc.

[JohnM]

My wife and I are really enjoying this World Cup and have watched more games than ever. The QFs in general have been great. Seeing the highly-skilled individuals and team of Marocco get through to the SF has been the second highest point so far, second only to seeing Ronaldo suffering for his art. 

We didn't see the England game last night owing to a previous and unavoidable commitment elsewhere, which was probably a good thing.

And it probably puts France in the position of favourites to win the comp.

Am I alone on not enjoying watching England in games like last night's? Too committed to the cause, maybe?

Incidentally,. 12 (some sources say 14) of the Maroccan squad of 26 were not born in the country.

Really interesting article in the Telegraph here. Don't think this one is behind the paywall.(I saw it and I don't pay)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2022/12/09/mercenaries-no-morocco-loves-plastic-players/

[MatthewWoody]

I think having heritage players representing a country which had massive emigration is coherent with how the world is now. These people, imho, clearly identify with more than a culture and more than a nation. 

About the game Eng v Fra, referee has been simply embarassing. The best team lost yesterday but Fra seemed more used to winning big games. 

[ivans82]

Think  we were unlucky to lose last night , clear  foul on Saka leading up to the first goal , the guy committing the foul for the 2nd pen should have been sent off as he was last man between the goals and where the foul was . A pundit on Sky sports news pointed out Greizman had committed a dozen fouls and was only booked .On top of that the "Giroud goal" wouldn`t have hit the target but for a huge deflection off Harry Maguires shoulder or elbow ...........rhought the longer the game went on , the more we got on top .What is really worrying for FIFA in my opinion is , we have a qualifying competition where we try to insure the best teams get there and then because we have to share the countries where the refs are from around , we end up with substandard officials reffing big games , as with last nights ref and the one that done the Argentine v Netherlands match .

[hw88]

12 hours ago, tonyXIII said:

I wasn't referring to that one incident. To be fair, Rattin's reputation preceeded him to that tournament. However, he did his best to live up to it. In modern terms, he'd have been sent off earlier for two yellow cards. Gj's point about the British press is valid, though. By the time of the game, he had been so demonised by the press that his dismissal was inevitable. He did deserve it, though.

The third Goal against Germany was dubious, at best. Why Roger Hunt didn't follow up, I'll never understand.

Still, enough reminiscing for now.

He didn't need to - it crossed the line. That's how he saw it anyway - and he was the closest to the incident.

Argentina was the one team Sir Alf Ramsey feared, had they tried to play football they might have won. Fortunately for us they didn't. And he was quite right in his comments about them after the game.

[hw88]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Indeed. 2-1 over Germany in the final.

Football came home. The song can be retired now.

But, let's face it, nobody really gives a t*** about women's football. If it weren't for the BBC hyping it beyond belief nobody would have known it was on.

[gingerjon]

12 hours ago, tonyXIII said:

The third Goal against Germany was dubious, at best. Why Roger Hunt didn't follow up, I'll never understand.

Missed your reply before.

My personal view having watched the whole game on one of those replays a couple of years back - and discovering that they did have co-commentators then as well - is that the players of both teams were basically exhausted out by that time. It was a proper old school extra time of players without energy left trying to get things done. I doubt he had the energy to surge forward as he would have done in regular play.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, hw88 said:

But, let's face it, nobody really gives a t*** about women's football. If it weren't for the BBC hyping it beyond belief nobody would have known it was on.

Whatevs.

[hw88]

Generally, in these big tournaments, England beat the teams they are supposed to beat then lose when they come up against someone good.

[moorside roughyed]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Indeed. 2-1 over Germany in the final.

Football came home. The song can be retired now.

But not with the men,find it hilarious that on the wages they get paid they should be able to play on the moon. Don't really know that much about soccer tbh. I could only name one player (Kane) at the start and I thought Pickford was a removal firm.

[gingerjon]

Just now, moorside roughyed said:

I could only name one player (Kane) at the start 

Quite a significant name in the game, it turned out.

The highest paid players on the pitch last night were, I think, on the French side.

[DavidM]

Good performance from us in the main , certainly in the second half , but Roy Keane nailed it . Top level sport is about winning and the teams used to winning things win . Same with the Kangaroos . Maybe they don’t look fantastic all the time but the best teams more often get the job done . Small margins ,  but they end up on the right side