What will IMG tell the clubs at tomorrow's RL Council meeting.

[sweaty craiq]

16 minutes ago, Jughead said:

7. Any club who is found to be the source of a leak will be downgraded. 

Do we know the same fly

[sweaty craiq]

54 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

I hope it’s a more reliable fly than the one who told you Leigh had signed Bevan French.

But they did

[Wellsy4HullFC]

2 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Clubs without min 500 lux floodlights for HDTV will be downgraded

Any club that cannot provide this minimum standard shouldn't be in SL. They're in the business of selling TV rights!

[DI Keith Fowler]

4 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Any club that cannot provide this minimum standard shouldn't be in SL. They're in the business of selling TV rights!

Is there a higher specification of lighting required for Ultra HD do we know?

[Harry Stottle]

19 hours ago, The storm said:

I think a few obvious things should happen. 

The salary cap for me should be increased to 2.5 million a year with total excemptions for players produced from the youth structure of the club 

 

Any dispensation for the clubs who wanted to run academies but the powers that be denied them the privilege to do so, in your model those clubs are penalised in that more of their cap has to be spent.

[Harry Stottle]

16 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Who needs 'leaked' meeting minutes when we can just have SC's comedy list.

You seem to be forgetting he is a Leigh Fan, with supposedly close connections to the club, there is nothing in that list he discloses that would worry any Leigh official/director/owner, so a little leak is not out of the question.

[iffleyox]

11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Any dispensation for the clubs who wanted to run academies but the powers that be denied them the privilege to do so, in your model those clubs are penalised in that more of their cap has to be spent.

I know this is a very targeted comment, but that is absolutely an issue of basic fairness.

[sweaty craiq]

32 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You seem to be forgetting he is a Leigh Fan, with supposedly close connections to the club, there is nothing in that list he discloses that would worry any Leigh official/director/owner, so a little leak is not out of the question.

Harry , it was a bit of fun after Martyn intimated about a fly on the wall

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Harry , it was a bit of fun after Martyn intimated about a fly on the wall

I like to dangle worms Sweaty.

[The Ghost of 99]

18 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

On 08/12/2022 at 08:15, The Ghost of 99 said:

I'm sure IMG and RFL have access to more detailed financial info if needed. 

No they don't.

The clubs are private companies that can't be forced to reveal information about themselves against their will unless, as a condition of membership, their reported accounts have to conform to certain required standards.

It isn't just a question of assisting "curious journalists".

It's about transparency for supporters and potential investors.

In other words, being more professional.

I said "if needed". And the clubs obviously provide more detailed financial information about salaries to SL/RFL because that's how the cap is managed. And as part of any applications for SL membership clearly more will be handed over. It's very naive to think the stat accounts are the only thing IMG or RFL would have to go on when assessing clubs - or the only sets of accounts clubs prepare.

As for potential investors. That's a ridiculous thing to say. Serious investors have the books opened to them; nobody decides whether to invest in a company based on limited disclosure small company accounts 

I don't know why you don't just admit that you want clubs to unnecessarily over-disclose because it might provide some juicy information for League Express. It's obviously the real reason.

[Harry Stottle]

16 hours ago, Jughead said:

7. Any club who is found to be the source of a leak will be downgraded. 

It will come out though Juggy, to qoute Frederick Forsyth:-

"If fifty people know anything that interesting, one will eventually spill the beans.  Not intentionally, not viciously, not even mischievously; but inevitably.

[Martyn Sadler]

4 minutes ago, The Ghost of 99 said:

I said "if needed". And the clubs obviously provide more detailed financial information about salaries to SL/RFL because that's how the cap is managed. And as part of any applications for SL membership clearly more will be handed over. It's very naive to think the stat accounts are the only thing IMG or RFL would have to go on when assessing clubs - or the only sets of accounts clubs prepare.

As for potential investors. That's a ridiculous thing to say. Serious investors have the books opened to them; nobody decides whether to invest in a company based on limited disclosure small company accounts 

I don't know why you don't just admit that you want clubs to unnecessarily over-disclose because it might provide some juicy information for League Express. It's obviously the real reason.

All player contracts have to be lodged with the RFL so clearly the governing body has the information it needs to administer the salary cap.

If the future membership of any competition depends on full audited accounts being submitted, then of course they will be, but that isn't currently true.

And you're confusing "potential" investors with "serious" investors.

Of course a "serious" investor will want the books opened to them, but even then, if the accounts are unaudited, there will be a disincentive to believe the information they are given.

I suspect that the vast majority of "potential" investors will be reluctant to invest in any unaudited company, whether in sport or in any other business sector.

As for your last paragraph, I suggest that you stop trying to mind-read.

It will only lead to even greater confusion on your part.

[gingerjon]

56 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

I know this is a very targeted comment, but that is absolutely an issue of basic fairness.

It's actually an issue of failing an assessment followed by an issue of deciding not to engage with a process to address that failure.

All wrapped up in a sense of entitlement and paranoia.

[The Ghost of 99]

18 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

All player contracts have to be lodged with the RFL so clearly the governing body has the information it needs to administer the salary cap.

If the future membership of any competition depends on full audited accounts being submitted, then of course they will be, but that isn't currently true.

Just because small company accounts exist for filing purposes at Companies House doesn't mean more detailed accounts don't exist for other purposes, including management control.

Whether these companies have an audit or not is a totally different question. They could be audited (potentially voluntarily) and still submit small company accounts.

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by The Ghost of 99

[Martyn Sadler]

9 minutes ago, The Ghost of 99 said:

Just because small company accounts exist for filing purposes at Companies House doesn't mean more detailed accounts don't exist for other purposes, including management control.

But they don't exist in the public sphere, from which most potential investors will form their initial impressions of a company.

10 minutes ago, The Ghost of 99 said:

Whether these companies have an audit or not is a totally different question. They could be audited (potentially voluntarily) and still submit small company accounts.

 

Technically correct but highly unlikely in the vast majority of cases.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

9 minutes ago, The Ghost of 99 said:

Just because small company accounts exist for filing purposes at Companies House doesn't mean more detailed accounts don't exist for other purposes, including management control.

Whether these companies have an audit or not is a totally different question. They could be audited (potentially voluntarily) and still submit small company accounts.

 

I also believe Championship and L1 clubs have to provide the RFL much more financial information than in their published accounts for the purpose of the 'agreed salary cap' which may be less than the maximum cap allowed. 

Just now, Martyn Sadler said:

But they don't exist in the public sphere, from which most potential investors will form their initial impressions of a company.

Of course you can get an initial impression from the published accounts. 

[Oxford]

On 08/12/2022 at 08:15, The Ghost of 99 said:

And no business in their right mind would file more information than they need to just to assist curious journalists.

What reason would there be to know this information other than finding one club is more in debt than another or whatever and then not use the data to any sound purpose.

Where do you live that Journalists do research for a story?

The only place such data is of any use is on a TGG forum,  and you know what barstewards they can be!

[Martyn Sadler]

On 08/12/2022 at 15:17, sweaty craiq said:

Snippets from a fly:

1. Any club losing money will be downgraded

2. Any club not spending full cap will be downgraded

3. Any club not taking up an offer of a cat A academy will be downgraded

4. Clubs operating at less than 75% capacity, 60% in 20k+ stadia will be downgraded

5. Clubs without min 500 lux floodlights for HDTV will be downgraded

6. Clubs not running a womens SL team will be downgraded

Your fantasy meeting was far more decisive than the real thing.

It's immensely frustrating to reflect on how around 50 people in a room can achieve so little.

[fighting irish]

38 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Your fantasy meeting was far more decisive than the real thing.

It's immensely frustrating to reflect on how around 50 people in a room can achieve so little.

I'm surprised that so many people managed to achieve anything at all.

You've heard the old adage that a camel, is a horse designed by a committee? 

Far better the benevolent dictator you mentioned in your last article Martin.

Assuming of course, that he/she is possessed of a genuine love of the game and the wisdom and dynamism to get the right things done in a reasonable time scale.

[Martyn Sadler]

17 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I'm surprised that so many people managed to achieve anything at all.

You've heard the old adage that a camel, is a horse designed by a committee? 

Far better the benevolent dictator you mentioned in your last article Martin.

Assuming of course, that he/she is possessed of a genuine love of the game and the wisdom and dynamism to get the right things done in a reasonable time scale.

I've written before that organisational structure matters if the optimum decisions are going to be made and I'm afraid that Rugby League is a long way from having the right structure.

[Toby Chopra]

18 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Your fantasy meeting was far more decisive than the real thing.

It's immensely frustrating to reflect on how around 50 people in a room can achieve so little.

Were any decisions supposed to be taken? Your preview suggested it was supposed to be an information update, but I'm not surprised IMG had little to say. Too soon for a TV deal, or detailed criteria for the gradings, but as long as we have something concrete on those by, say, March, then we'll still be heading in the right direction. 

The piece of info I'm most interested in at this point is whether the World Cup left the English game with any financial liabilities. Hopefully not, and 2023 will be a year of progress. 

[del capo]

21 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Were any decisions supposed to be taken? Your preview suggested it was supposed to be an information update, but I'm not surprised IMG had little to say. Too soon for a TV deal, or detailed criteria for the gradings, but as long as we have something concrete on those by, say, March, then we'll still be heading in the right direction. 

The piece of info I'm most interested in at this point is whether the World Cup left the English game with any financial liabilities. Hopefully not, and 2023 will be a year of progress. 

Whether the World cup made a profit or otherwise financially I believe it can be put down as a qualified success. On the pure finances  didn't it stand alone as a seperate company thus immunizing the RFL itself from any cold winds ?

[Griff]

On 09/12/2022 at 09:21, Martyn Sadler said:

But they don't exist in the public sphere, from which most potential investors will form their initial impressions of a company.

A serious investor would ask for more detailed accounts.  If he didn't get the information he needed, he'd walk away.

[Martyn Sadler]

21 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Were any decisions supposed to be taken? Your preview suggested it was supposed to be an information update, but I'm not surprised IMG had little to say. Too soon for a TV deal, or detailed criteria for the gradings, but as long as we have something concrete on those by, say, March, then we'll still be heading in the right direction. 

IMG spoke mainly about branding and their digital plans, but the response from the clubs was muted.

Not much will be said about the TV deal until it is done and dusted.

The criteria for ranking clubs was touched on only marginally.

30 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

The piece of info I'm most interested in at this point is whether the World Cup left the English game with any financial liabilities. Hopefully not, and 2023 will be a year of progress. 

Wouldn't we all like to know that!

Breaking even is the best we can hope for, I think, even with the contribution from the government. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[del capo]

1 hour ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I've written before that organisational structure matters if the optimum decisions are going to be made and I'm afraid that Rugby League is a long way from having the right structure.

The RFL seem to have been modifying their structures by promoting into their Boards  non RL people who have been given majority voices. The Council have agreed the structure at their recent meetings,

Sure there is bound to be a tough meeting at some stage but the Council ( even the SL faction who will have made their points in those very Board meetings) may have little option by then but to follow the  IMG proposals .......