Thur 2nd Mar: SL: Warrington Wolves v Salford Red Devils KO 20:00 (Sky)

[Niels]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

but if he captained called that he would have lost, as again they have to prove that the referee us wrong.. so it wouldnt have made any difference. 

The initial call by all was that it was ok, I have seen nothing to say otherwise and I dont understand how people can claim that he was offside when there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to say that he was. There are 3 people though in the officiating crew who said he was onside from what they saw and, correct me if i am wrong as havent gone back to look at it, I dont remember the Salford players claiming he was offside, as i say, happy to be told they did as i havent re watched it.

One of the three, the video ref completely forgot he was on the field and thought someone else scored the try. Therefore his judgement isn't reliable. 

 

[LeeF]

12 minutes ago, Niels said:

Yes but of course it continued until we saw the winger who in my opinion, and lots of others, couldn't possibly have been onside.

The fact he was so far ahead the video referee forgot about him is to me, very illuminating.

Until there is real evidence though, it is a judgement call. Which is why there are differences of opinion. 

 

 

 

It’s not a judgement call. The TJ clearly states onside. Interestingly not one of the many doubters has shown any evidence to support their claim

[Niels]

Just now, LeeF said:

He actually said that the TJ had confirmed he was onside. There was no issue and no doubt

He didn't though Lee, he said "they are all onside" in a frame where the try scorer wasn't in picture.

Others have said this previously in the thread.

[LeeF]

Just now, Niels said:

He didn't though Lee, he said "they are all onside" in a frame where the try scorer wasn't in picture.

Others have said this previously in the thread.

He did say that the TJ had said it was onside as others have said on this thread. There is also clear video evidence supporting the TJ shouting onside. 

[Niels]

Just now, LeeF said:

It’s not a judgement call. The TJ clearly states onside. Interestingly not one of the many doubters has shown any evidence to support their claim

There is no evidence to show he was onside either.

That's why we are discussing it. If there was anything conclusive there would be no connection.

If you find any then I will happily admit I am wrong.

[Dave T]

14 minutes ago, Niels said:

Yes but of course it continued until we saw the winger who in my opinion, and lots of others, couldn't possibly have been onside.

The fact he was so far ahead the video referee forgot about him is to me, very illuminating.

Until there is real evidence though, it is a judgement call. Which is why there are differences of opinion. 

 

 

 

Watch it again. We see Minikin is onside. We then see that Minikin chases the ball but actually slows right down as it is Thewlis' ball. Minikin could have got to the ball if he had needed to. 

It really wasn't a controversial try. 

[LeeF]

4 minutes ago, Niels said:

There is no evidence to show he was onside either.

That's why we are discussing it. If there was anything conclusive there would be no connection.

If you find any then I will happily admit I am wrong.

Yes there is. The TJ & Ref were happy. The try was correctly awarded. There has been zero evidence shown of Thewlis being offside. It’s up to you to prove otherwise

[LeeF]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Watch it again. We see Minikin is onside. We then see that Minikin chases the ball but actually slows right down as it is Thewlis' ball. Minikin could have got to the ball if he had needed to. 

It really wasn't a controversial try. 

I agree. It isn’t controversial in any way shape or form.
 

Any half decent winger would have been onside from that type of kick. You don’t have to be super fast to get there.
 

It feels like people clutching at straws to support a non existent point 

[RP London]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

The line in bold is one of the weirdest things I've read here, with respect

Is this the reverse angle that has convinced you he was offside? 

its mad isnt it.. all he has to be is behind the kicker, he doesnt have to be behind his centre. so he can be just behind the 20 yard line. 

i've just quickly looked at the highlights on sky and at this incident. The ball actually leaves Williams' boot at 63min 17sec .. on the 20 m line. Thewliss catches it between the 10 and the try line (so 15 m away ish) on 63min 20 sec. so its taken him lets say 2 seconds (baring in mind it could be late 17 and early 20) that means a 100m time of over 12 seconds.. which is not rapid... (and the 100m have a standing start which he wouldnt have had)... it is very likely he can make that sort of ground in that sort of time.. and it really wasnt hard to work out.

[Dave T]

22 minutes ago, Niels said:

Yes but of course it continued until we saw the winger who in my opinion, and lots of others, couldn't possibly have been onside.

 

OK. I'll provide evidence that proves you wrong. Feel free to provide any evidence to counter. 

So, the claim is that the winger "couldn't possibly have been onside". 

The above pic shows that Williams kicks it on the 20m line. 

The below pic shows that Thewlis catches it 15m ahead of that. So you are claiming it is impossible to run 15m in that amount of time. 

So, onto the evidence. We see that it is humanly possible to run at least 15m in that amount of time, as the player inside Thewlis has done just that. You can see that Minikin is around 26-27m out at the point of the kick, and just over the 10m line when Thewlis catches it. 

So, whilst a rather good try, it appears that Thewlis' effort wasn't quite as superhuman as some people would make out. 

 

[Archie Gordon]

I understand there is a clear photo doing the rounds that shows a mystery extra Wire attacker who begins his run in an obviously offside position on a grassy knoll.

[gingerjon]

11 minutes ago, LeeF said:

Yes there is. The TJ & Ref were happy. The try was correctly awarded. There has been zero evidence shown of Thewlis being offside. It’s up to you to prove otherwise

The video ref has rather muddied it all a bit by not actually seeing anything to confirm he was onside (assuming we saw all that he saw) but there was no reason for him to check that anyway (on my understanding of how the system currently works) as he wasn't actually asked by the on field ref to check for the onside/offside.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The video ref has rather muddied it all a bit by not actually seeing anything to confirm he was onside (assuming we saw all that he saw) but there was no reason for him to check that anyway (on my understanding of how the system currently works) as he wasn't actually asked by the on field ref to check for the onside/offside.

My understanding is that irrespective of why its sent up, the kick has to be checked. So even if its simply for grounding, they will always check the onside. 

The VR said 'onside at the kick', then as Thewlis appeared on screen and it was clear the camera hadn't caught him, he said 'the touch judge has called onside so it's fine' or similar. 

[The Blues Ox]

Why would the winger even be standing in front of the kicker at that point is the question. 

[RP London]

39 minutes ago, Niels said:

One of the three, the video ref completely forgot he was on the field and thought someone else scored the try. Therefore his judgement isn't reliable. 

 

Actually the VR is separate from the 3 man officiating crew on the pitch, 1 ref 2 touchies. 

I refer to you my other post on timings that it is very likely he made that ground and was not offside. Also i dont think what you are saying above is true.. I dont think he forgot there was somone else out there as he refered IIRC to it in the conversation he was having.

[graveyard johnny]

where does "TELEPORTING" stand in the  rule books? cos thats the only way he could have got to that ball without been offside

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Why would the winger even be standing in front of the kicker at that point is the question. 

not only that but Williams is running sideways across the pitch looking at the side that Thewliss is on. You can see he looks up just before kicking the ball.. would he really have kicked it if he was clearly offside? or even possibly offside on the 4th tackle?

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

where does "TELEPORTING" stand in the  rule books? cos thats the only way he could have got to that ball without been offside

seriously? you think 15 meters in 2 and a bit seconds is impossible??? amateur wingers would be able to do that without a major issue.

Edited March 3, 2023 by RP London

[Old Frightful]

Has John Drake got this thread title wrong?

It's usually only Wigan match threads where the topic goes into double figures page wise.

[ELBOWSEYE]

8 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

Has John Drake got this thread title wrong?

It's usually only Wigan match threads where the topic goes into double figures page wise.

After this thread I now believe Smith and Moore are Aliens and Salford have been well and truly probed 

 

[Old Frightful]

Just now, ELBOWSEYE said:

After this thread I now believe Smith and Moore are Aliens and Salford have been well and truly probed 

 

Ooof...sounds painful!

[RP London]

5 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

After this thread I now believe Smith and Moore are Aliens and Salford have been well and truly probed 

 

lucky barstewards

[Just Browny]

[Dave T]

One thing getting lost in this nonsense over Thewlis is that it was an absolutely wonderful try. 

The PTB was 55m out, some slick handling, a pass out of the back of Ratchford's hand, a superb offload from Ashton following his break and a World. Class kick from Williams. 

It was genuinely brilliant stuff. 

[Just Browny]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

One thing getting lost in this nonsense over Thewlis is that it was an absolutely wonderful try. 

The PTB was 55m out, some slick handling, a pass out of the back of Ratchford's hand, a superb offload from Ashton following his break and a World. Class kick from Williams. 

It was genuinely brilliant stuff. 

Ashton's play was sensational, all of that space for Thewlis was created because he dragged 6-7 Salford players across.