IMG Grading Unveiled

[Harry Stottle]

15 hours ago, Damien said:

Typically underwhelming and heavily favours those already in the club. It's hard to see any change to the currrent makeup of SL.

Said it from day one Damien when IMG posted it's intentions that they were heavily skewed in favour of  SL clubs, never ever have I like many others on this site who stated that this system would be progressive for all clubs to reach the top, the carrot is dangled so far in front that those outside SL may has well bend down and eat the grass.

There is also a "Golden Ticket" awaiting the winners of the championship this season, favourites being Fev and Toulouse, is either one willing to speculate to accumulate, promotion will be the making of one whilst investment and failing could prove to be catrosophic for the loser.

Any thoughts?

[LeytherRob]

16 minutes ago, dboy said:

The LED lighting is floodlights (despite Mick Gledhill thinking it's advertising boards).

It is advertising boards

[binosh]

Cmon I’m sat here waiting for someone to grade every club.

[RP London]

20 minutes ago, Nothus said:

Growth where? The only thing I can see growing is the gap in quality between SL and the championship.

 

There's no point IMG talking about 'incentivising' clubs to grow but then doing nothing about the ridiculous funding cuts that the lower leagues have seen.

Remember when the drop in revenue from the new TV deal was borne fully by the lower leagues? The only way any club in the lower leagues will be growing is if they have their own benefactor.

To be fair this is a 12 year plan not an instant win.. the idea is that by doing what they are doing now they can grow the commercial side of RL to allow for the funding to be put in place. Whether it works or not we will only know in 12 years time but without doing something we are going to be in a worse position in 12 years time than we are now, again whether this is correct something is a different matter, but its the one we've got.

[RP London]

18 minutes ago, Hello said:

To be honest I have reservations about using this whole points based system for determing which division/league teams play in.  My natural instinct is P and R to give everyone the opportunity and therefore incentive to further themselves.  I think that I would rather that IMG would just stick to this simple to understand and fair system, and concentrate their efforts on marketing and trying to find fuding to support the game in existing and new areas to help overall growth.  That's what I think that most of us were hoping for from them.

problem is there is arguably nothing to "market" or find funding for (and not a lot of funding streams available anyway), we were told this by SKY with a "sort it out" etched on the last TV deal. What they are trying to create is something that can then be worked on in the way you are looking for, but you have to build the product before you can market it. 

Again, whether this is the right way or not only time will tell, but there arent many other ideas out there to try and solve this continued issue 

[The Blues Ox]

12 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Said it from day one Damien when IMG posted it's intentions that they were heavily skewed in favour of  SL clubs, never ever have I like many others on this site who stated that this system would be progressive for all clubs to reach the top, the carrot is dangled so far in front that those outside SL may has well bend down and eat the grass.

There is also a "Golden Ticket" awaiting the winners of the championship this season, favourites being Fev and Toulouse, is either one willing to speculate to accumulate, promotion will be the making of one whilst investment and failing could prove to be catrosophic for the loser.

Any thoughts?

Whoever gets promoted really has some huge decisions to make. If by some miracle Fax were to make it and I think Fev should think along similar lines, I would make very little improvements to the playing squad as its very likely they will finish last with the type of player they can bring in so it would really be in their best interests to stay part time and bank the Tv money and wait to see where they stand on the mock grades. That money could then be used to try and increase points scored in areas away from the pitch. Going full time could be a disaster for the club as if they don't make the grade it will put them under real financial pressure the season after not to mention make it really difficult to put together a competitive squad in the championship the following season.

 

Probably won't matter longterm anyway as we will have something new in place in 3-4 years again.

Edited July 5, 2023 by The Blues Ox

[raiders_1875]

8 minutes ago, binosh said:

Cmon I’m sat here waiting for someone to grade every club.

Barrow around 8....hopfully!

[Nothus]

11 minutes ago, RP London said:

To be fair this is a 12 year plan not an instant win.. the idea is that by doing what they are doing now they can grow the commercial side of RL to allow for the funding to be put in place. Whether it works or not we will only know in 12 years time but without doing something we are going to be in a worse position in 12 years time than we are now, again whether this is correct something is a different matter, but its the one we've got.

You're assuming that any additional funding achieved by growing the commercial side would actually find its way to the lower leagues. I'm not holding my breath on that one.

[Man of Kent]

18 minutes ago, binosh said:

Cmon I’m sat here waiting for someone to grade every club.

This is Matthew Shaw's attempt to work out the on-field points grading (based on the last three seasons).

1. St Helens 4.75
2. Wigan Warriors 4.1389
3. Leeds Rhinos 3.7778
4. Catalans Dragons 3.6667
5. Huddersfield Giants 3.5556
6. Hull FC 3.4444
7. Warrington Wolves3.3333
8. Castleford Tigers 3.2222
9. Hull KR 3.1111
10. Salford Red Devils 3
11. Leigh Leopards 2.916
12. Wakefield Trinity 2.8889
13. Toulouse Olympique 2.7778
14. Featherstone Rovers 2.6556
15. Batley Bulldogs 2.4444
16. Halifax Panthers 2.3333
17. York Knights 2.2222
18. Bradford Bulls 2.1111
19. Sheffield Eagles 2
20. Widnes Vikings 1.8889
21. London Broncos 1.7778
22. Whitehaven 1.6667
23. Barrow Raiders 1.5556
24. Dewsbury Rams 1.4444
25. Swinton Lions 1.3333
26. Newcastle Thunder 1.2222
27. Workington Town 1.1111
28. Oldham 1
29. Doncaster 0.8889
30. Rochdale Hornets 0.7778
31. Keighley Cougars 0.7667
32. North Wales Crusaders0.5556
33. Hunslet 0.4444
34. Midlands Hurricanes 0.3333
35. London Skolars 0.2222
36. Cornwall 0.1111

[Toby Chopra]

9 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Whoever gets promoted really has some huge decisions to make. If by some miracle Fax were to make it and I think Fev should think along similar lines, I would make very little improvements to the playing squad as its very likely they will finish last with the type of player they can bring in so it would really be in their best interests to stay part time and bank the Tv money and wait to see where they stand on the mock grades. That money could then be used to try and increase points scored in areas away from the pitch. Going full time could be a disaster for the club as if they don't make the grade it will put them under real financial pressure the season after not to mention make it really difficult to put together a competitive squad in the championship the following season.

 

Probably won't matter longterm anyway as we will have something new in place in 3-4 years again.

Well, on one level, that's the idea. The system is intended to promote long term planning and investment, not splurging everything on the team.

The risk however is that if you put out a part-time team and get spanked by 60 every week, the fans will surely stop coming, and you'll lose points in the revenue and attendance sections anyway. 

If you go up, you've surely got to give it your best shot and hope that even if you finish 12th, you've enthused enough fans to keep your grading high enough to stay up. The system is slanted to enable you to do that and stay up.       

[Damien]

40 minutes ago, Nothus said:

Remember when the drop in revenue from the new TV deal was borne fully by the lower leagues? The only way any club in the lower leagues will be growing is if they have their own benefactor.

Now I have every sympathy for the lower league clubs for their drop in funding, and certainly would not have cut it as much as it was, it is not correct to say that they borne fully the drop in funding. SL clubs had a fair drop in their funding too.

[RP London]

8 minutes ago, Nothus said:

You're assuming that any additional funding achieved by growing the commercial side would actually find its way to the lower leagues. I'm not holding my breath on that one.

I am assuming that, understand people not being so sure, but in that case any funding brought in by anybody would be the same if you dont trust RFL commercial to distribute additional funds properly.

[David Shepherd]

39 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Said it from day one Damien when IMG posted it's intentions that they were heavily skewed in favour of  SL clubs, never ever have I like many others on this site who stated that this system would be progressive for all clubs to reach the top, the carrot is dangled so far in front that those outside SL may has well bend down and eat the grass.

There is also a "Golden Ticket" awaiting the winners of the championship this season, favourites being Fev and Toulouse, is either one willing to speculate to accumulate, promotion will be the making of one whilst investment and failing could prove to be catrosophic for the loser.

Any thoughts?

I still quite like it.  The incumbency bonus is not insurmountable.  

Definitely a big leg up if you can get promoted this year though. 

[OriginalMrC]

19 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

This is Matthew Shaw's attempt to work out the on-field points grading (based on the last three seasons).

1. St Helens 4.75
2. Wigan Warriors 4.1389
3. Leeds Rhinos 3.7778
4. Catalans Dragons 3.6667
5. Huddersfield Giants 3.5556
6. Hull FC 3.4444
7. Warrington Wolves3.3333
8. Castleford Tigers 3.2222
9. Hull KR 3.1111
10. Salford Red Devils 3
11. Leigh Leopards 2.916
12. Wakefield Trinity 2.8889
13. Toulouse Olympique 2.7778
14. Featherstone Rovers 2.6556
15. Batley Bulldogs 2.4444
16. Halifax Panthers 2.3333
17. York Knights 2.2222
18. Bradford Bulls 2.1111
19. Sheffield Eagles 2
20. Widnes Vikings 1.8889
21. London Broncos 1.7778
22. Whitehaven 1.6667
23. Barrow Raiders 1.5556
24. Dewsbury Rams 1.4444
25. Swinton Lions 1.3333
26. Newcastle Thunder 1.2222
27. Workington Town 1.1111
28. Oldham 1
29. Doncaster 0.8889
30. Rochdale Hornets 0.7778
31. Keighley Cougars 0.7667
32. North Wales Crusaders0.5556
33. Hunslet 0.4444
34. Midlands Hurricanes 0.3333
35. London Skolars 0.2222
36. Cornwall 0.1111

Interesting to see SL ready Keighley in 31st place

[David Shepherd]

35 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Whoever gets promoted really has some huge decisions to make. If by some miracle Fax were to make it and I think Fev should think along similar lines, I would make very little improvements to the playing squad as its very likely they will finish last with the type of player they can bring in so it would really be in their best interests to stay part time and bank the Tv money and wait to see where they stand on the mock grades. That money could then be used to try and increase points scored in areas away from the pitch. Going full time could be a disaster for the club as if they don't make the grade it will put them under real financial pressure the season after not to mention make it really difficult to put together a competitive squad in the championship the following season.

 

Probably won't matter longterm anyway as we will have something new in place in 3-4 years again.

During your last season in the promised land, how did crowds fair when you were getting tonked every week?  The big risk with your plan is a collapse in revenue and stadium usage. No one will want to watch on TV either.  All bad under the grading.

If (and it's a massive if) we get there this time we've got to try and be competitive. I doubt many will go to see us get spanked week in, week out. 

[raiders_1875]

So owning your own stadium is 0.250, but having LED advertising boards is 0.125 

[David Shepherd]

8 minutes ago, raiders_1875 said:

So owning your own stadium is 0.250, but having LED advertising boards is 0.125 

Those LED boards make the sport look serious and modern on TV, presumably they're a big source of revenue too which is why they have a relatively high score.

[The Blues Ox]

8 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

During your last season in the promised land, how did crowds fair when you were getting tonked every week?  The big risk with your plan is a collapse in revenue and stadium usage. No one will want to watch on TV either.  All bad under the grading.

If (and it's a massive if) we get there this time we've got to try and be competitive. I doubt many will go to see us get spanked week in, week out. 

I don't remember a huge drop of in crowds but we were competitive for part of the year so its not like we were getting hammered every week to start with. The thing is though I think a part time team would probably be as competitive as the sort of team that you could hope to put together anyway if you needed to put together a full new team, which Fev will most likey have to do if they went full time.

[dboy]

1 hour ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

 

From the document they put out yesterday:
4. LEDS – 0.125
An additional bonus score of 0.125 is awarded if a club has LED advertising boards
across a minimum of the TV arc (three sides with a content management system):
• 100m length (save for where main dug outs are opposite the TV cameras).
• Full length behind goals.
• 900mm high.

When Gledhill has it right and you have it wrong, it's probably time to give up.
 

Bloody hell. I'm gonna have to do a ranty video now!

 

[dboy]

4 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Those LED boards make the sport look serious and modern on TV, presumably they're a big source of revenue too which is why they have a relatively high score.

Glitter-rolling exercise.

[dboy]

On LED signs - does anyone know their cost? Is it worth the expenditure to gain 0.125 points?

[raiders_1875]

3 minutes ago, dboy said:

Glitter-rolling exercise.

Its alright when you're on TV more than twice a year

[The Phantom Horseman]

1 minute ago, The Blues Ox said:

The thing is though I think a part time team would probably be as competitive as the sort of team that you could hope to put together anyway if you needed to put together a full new team, which Fev will most likey have to do if they went full time.

I think there would be even more of an issue with the overseas players limit though and also likely retirements.

To be honest whoever goes up this year is going do remarkably well if they don't finish last in 2024 unless another SL team absolutely crumbles. I don't doubt Mark Campbell would give it a good go if it's Fev but it would be a massive challenge.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

To be fair this is a 12 year plan not an instant win.. the idea is that by doing what they are doing now they can grow the commercial side of RL to allow for the funding to be put in place. Whether it works or not we will only know in 12 years time but without doing something we are going to be in a worse position in 12 years time than we are now, again whether this is correct something is a different matter, but its the one we've got.

This system won't even see 50% of that 12 years RP, it will be either ripped up or SL clubs will go their own way which will be the death knell for the sport.

[RP London]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

This system won't even see 50% of that 12 years RP, it will be either ripped up or SL clubs will go their own way which will be the death knell for the sport.

you may think that and I understand why. But there is buy in for this and that would suggest they all understand the situation they are in now has to change and it could take that long to do it.. and they would be right. 

I am more confident that they will stick with this, as long as it is seeing some results of course, than I have with any of the other stuff in the past as there is research underpinning it.. again whether it works fully or not is a different matter but I do think they will stick with it.