Salford fan shares and financial issues.

[Man of Kent]

Fan ownership is a financial and operational handicap. Less money, slower decisions, high risk of political in-fighting.

Good luck.

[Oxford]

I've searched all the coverage of this, been on every forum and site I can find and I know there'll be another downside to this that no one's thought of. Just give me me a little while everyone, I won't be long. There's got to be something in here somewhere .......

[Griff]

Well, the obvious weakness to my mind is that they've raised £63000 so far with what appears to be a large scale bucket collection. And that's great. Well done to them.

But they've not created a continuing income stream. So, at some point in the future, they'll need another bucket collection.

[Oxford]

29 minutes ago, Oxford said:

I've searched all the coverage of this, been on every forum and site I can find and I know there'll be another downside to this that no one's thought of. Just give me me a little while everyone, I won't be long. There's got to be something in here somewhere .......

I won't be long, keep the faith, don't lose heart, hang on in there ......

[Pete Grady]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

Well, the obvious weakness to my mind is that they've raised £63000 so far with what appears to be a large scale bucket collection. And that's great. Well done to them.

But they've not created a continuing income stream. So, at some point in the future, they'll need another bucket collection.

Hey, I've not heard anything about giving a bucket?

[DI Keith Fowler]

Reading the business plan there's no pretence that this money isn't primarily to solve a cashflow issue which is refreshingly honest in a sense.

However, what is also important to note is that this was always the long term intention, albeit circumstances have dictated it's very much now or never. The thrust of it seems to be that they need this liquidity to survive but once they survive they have a robust plan to grow revenue through a re-negotiated stadium agreement amongst other things. But that can't happen if they go bump in two months time so they need this now.

Another aspect to this is the favour of the council. Salford being a basketcase owned by a string of wealthy/not so wealthy businessmen with no purpose other than to put a team on the pitch doesn't enamour the council. But a thriving community asset with a strong co-operative base is another feather in the cap of the council and their socialism on a local level aspirations. It's no coincidence that they ran a story in Tribune they're courting this audience. 

I doubt if this plan wasn't in the offing whether they'd be so keen to buy the remainder of the stadium and save Salford from being forced out by richer cuckoo clubs.

[dboy]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

I won't be long, keep the faith, don't lose heart, hang on in there ......

That's easy - when it all eventually goes #### up, it will be someone else's fault.

Again.

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

I won't be long, keep the faith, don't lose heart, hang on in there ......

Can one person buy more than one share? The last thing anyone would want is someone coming in, buying all the shares and running the club their way.

Will that do?

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

It's a tricky one this isn't it. I mean, Salford have had a relatively small audience and commercial base for years, so in the absence of a wealthy benefactor (like many of us luckily have) what are they supposed to do? Seems to me like they've a supportive local authority, fans as Directors who have the clubs interests at heart, and a possible pathway to a more sustainable future if they can survive through the cashflow trough.

At least Paul King is being honest so people know where they stand, and the community strategy aligns with the needs of their most important partner (the council) so they're playing the only card they have. Some of the messaging in that Tribune article might feel a bit off to the average observer used to people selling the dream, but it's not 'off' when you realise who the audience for it really is.

Hope it works. It might not but you won't find me celebrating or criticizing them. The sins of the former owner aren't their fault.  

[DI Keith Fowler]

7 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Some of the messaging in that Tribune article might feel a bit off to the average observer used to people selling the dream, but it's not 'off' when you realise who the audience for it really is.

Becoming a fan owned rugby league club and publishing it in Tribune, it all feels a bit @ me to be honest.

[RigbyLuger]

If a business can't afford to run at the level it is at, what is the end game?

This is not just aimed at Salford, but all clubs.

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, Pete Grady said:

Hey, I've not heard anything about giving a bucket?

Have you not? I was told it was so Burgess could catch the ball!

 

15 minutes ago, JohnM said:

The last thing anyone would want is someone coming in, buying all the shares and running the club their way.

Why are you thinking of making a bid?

There is no doubt that some on here would be like pigs in muck if some clubs ceased to exist. Their theories and rumour around all this are the dog's cojones for mine. It's like joining an episode of Married At first Sight; You understand why everyone's there searching for love but then going the wrong way about finding it.

 

 

 

 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

11 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Becoming a fan owned rugby league club and publishing it in Tribune, it all feels a bit @ me to be honest.

They're pitching for the council to keep supporting them, likely plan B is more council loans until the stadium financial model restructure. It's the right publication for that. 

I'd imagine they'll sell Brodie Croft in the off season for a bit more bridge finance if needs be. Again, I saw that 8 year contract as clever business by good people fighting the battle where it is not where they'd prefer it to be.  

[Oxford]

Of course it could just be this is a way for the club to move forward and they're working with the council on getting things on a more even keel. But it's not half so exciting a storyline that though, is it?

As for placing the story in Tribune, what a great piece of strategy for quite a few reasons. It's not as if any of the Tory/London centric rags were likely to publish it any time soon, and if it had appeared in the erm ... "lefty" Mirror or Guardian it would have almost certainly been run as another RL disaster story, much the same as it appears on here in fact.

I know that the council taking up a more hands on municipal role annoys alot of people but that has more to do with how divided we are, how angry we are, how much we like like to jump on the band wagon and how convinced we are that if monies are involved we must be losing out in some way or other.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Oxford

[LeytherRob]

40 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Of course it could just be this is a way for the club to move forward and they're working with the council on getting things on a more even keel. But it's not half so exciting a storyline that though, is it?

As for placing the story in Tribune, what a great piece of strategy for quite a few reasons. It's not as if any of the Tory/London centric rags were likely to publish it any time soon, and if it had appeared in the erm ... "lefty" Mirror or Guardian it would have almost certainly been run as another RL disaster story, much the same as it appears on here in fact.

I know that the council taking up a more hands on municipal role annoys alot of people but that has more to do with how divided we are, how angry we are, how much we like like to jump on the band wagon and how convinced we are that if monies are involved we must be losing out in some way or other.

 

 

 

 

[Oxford]

46 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Nice one, Leyther Bob !

Saves discussion, doesn't it?

 

[JonM]

6 hours ago, Oxford said:

I've searched all the coverage of this, been on every forum and site I can find and I know there'll be another downside to this that no one's thought of. 

Widnes carried on being a members club right until the SL era. We got an annual vote for a committee. There was a certain amount of overlap at various times between making a name for yourself on the club committee becoming a prominent local councillor, and I wonder how much that contributed in the past to the close links between the club and council.  The downside to that structure was that the committee members were personally liable for the club's debts, which both made it difficult to borrow money (e.g. for stadium improvements) and increasingly made people unwilling to serve as committee members. Both of those things meant that when the RFL/SLE required clubs to become limited companies with shareholders, there wasn't any opposition. I guess a number of clubs have voluntary subscription schemes where fans commit to pay a certain amount per month to fund players wages etc. e.g LISA at Leigh.

I hope Salford are able to make a go of this. I think it's a model that could work really well for RL clubs.

[Oxford]

I was about to put a couple of positive points on here ........

but instead

I hope that a few clubs get financial help from different sources, primarily not the better off ones so that the whole of RL can move forward in this IMG era. If not I really do wish you well with what's left of the sport.

I do wonder if there is a number of clubs the sport can afford to lose before it feels happy and able to progress and obviously the price for all this will only and can only be seen at the end.

People do seem intent on the demise of some of our clubs which I find illogical and counter productive. Their posts might not show this, and some may not even intend for that to be the case; however, if that's the case they've an odd way of showing it and communicating it.

It was also very clear that any kind of positivity would be lost on here. One of the reasons that TGG ended up as essentially an M62 product is that when we've lost clubs, and there have been far too many, nobody cared and they were seen as acceptable damage.

19 minutes ago, JonM said:

I hope Salford are able to make a go of this. I think it's a model that could work really well for RL clubs.

Good post and argument Jon

Please don't take this the wrong way but did you get lost on your way to somewhere better when you ended up here?

I think you may be right and it could be just the model that may move them on, though my natural cynicism always presents me with more questions than answers. This may sound odd given my posts on here but I do feel that negativity rules on the forum and there is a rush to form a queue for the darkness when things like this take place.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Oxford

[dboy]

12 minutes ago, Oxford said:

People do seem intent on the demise of some of our clubs which I find illogical and counter productive. Their posts might not show this, and some may not even intend for that to be the case; however, if that's the case they've an odd way of showing it and communicating it.

It was also very clear that any kind of positivity would be lost on here.

No-one, from what I've read, wants to see SRD go bust.

What they want is SRD (indeed all clubs), to be run on a fair and sustainable basis i.e. paying their bills, not relying on hand-outs and paying for a squad they can actually afford. This would avoid them going bust.

You are blind to the fact that the SRD business model is in no way "any kind of positivity".

Of course, if you are suggesting this new scheme means SRD will finally pay their full rent, I'm sure all on here will rejoice. I know I will.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

15 minutes ago, dboy said:

No-one, from what I've read, wants to see SRD go bust.

What they want is SRD (indeed all clubs), to be run on a fair and sustainable basis i.e. paying their bills, not relying on hand-outs and paying for a squad they can actually afford. This would avoid them going bust.

You are blind to the fact that the SRD business model is in no way "any kind of positivity".

Of course, if you are suggesting this new scheme means SRD will finally pay their full rent, I'm sure all on here will rejoice. I know I will.

I'm not sure Oxford's defensiveness on here is earned

I've stuck up for Salford's plans, but believe me those of us who saw our clubs relegated whilst Koukash ran a squad he didn't actually pay for, in a stadium he didn't pay for either, have plenty of reason to be angry about the way that club has run its business in recent years.

But it's not the fans fault, or the current Directors, so I can let it slide and hope this works. But we could probably do without the martyrdom posturing from some on here at the same time. 

[Gavin Harrison]

5 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Reading the business plan there's no pretence that this money isn't primarily to solve a cashflow issue which is refreshingly honest in a sense.

However, what is also important to note is that this was always the long term intention, albeit circumstances have dictated it's very much now or never. The thrust of it seems to be that they need this liquidity to survive but once they survive they have a robust plan to grow revenue through a re-negotiated stadium agreement amongst other things. But that can't happen if they go bump in two months time so they need this now.

Another aspect to this is the favour of the council. Salford being a basketcase owned by a string of wealthy/not so wealthy businessmen with no purpose other than to put a team on the pitch doesn't enamour the council. But a thriving community asset with a strong co-operative base is another feather in the cap of the council and their socialism on a local level aspirations. It's no coincidence that they ran a story in Tribune they're courting this audience. 

I doubt if this plan wasn't in the offing whether they'd be so keen to buy the remainder of the stadium and save Salford from being forced out by richer cuckoo clubs.

It isn't difficult to write a long termbplan.

Financing it is the issue.

Salford clearly operate at a significant deficit which is not underwritten & continues to grow the liability column.

Providing the £250k is met, this share issue is nothing more thqn a sticking plaster.

I just cannot see how revenues will ever reach break even & be sufficient to service debts.

A great shame, but it really isn't looking good. Time to rationalise & accept the inevitable.

 

 

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, dboy said:

No-one, from what I've read, wants to see SRD go bust.

I think that semantics and interpretation not only allow me to disagree but not actually saying something is not the same as saying that it isn't what's being inferred, suggested and even hoped for.

As an example so not as to pick out people on here It's all a bit like the Tories congratulating the UK on being a welcoming country and society whilst explaining their reasoning behind telling people they're not wanted.

Exhibit A though "Time to rationalise & accept the inevitable."

Other than that I think I promised not to bother you again, so sorry.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Oxford

[dboy]

2 minutes ago, Oxford said:

I think that semantics and interpretation not only allow me to disagree but not actually saying something is not the same as saying that it isn't what's being inferred, suggested and even hoped for.

Other than taht i think I promised not to bother you again so sorry.

So we can all agree it's in your head.

Happy days indeed.

[Oxford]

16 minutes ago, dboy said:

So we can all agree it's in your head.

Happy days indeed.

That's certainly one interpretation and you won't get lonely on here by saying so.

[dboy]

Just now, Oxford said:

That's certainly one interpretation and you won't get lonely on here by saying so.

Yeah, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean we're not out to get ya!