Salford fan shares and financial issues.

[Wakefield Ram]

4 minutes ago, Ragingbull said:

Hang on, they are trying to raise £250k from fan investment to be able to pay players and staff? Sounds like they are in big trouble. 

I have not so fond memories of clubs asking fans for bail outs. Its the start of a downward spiral. 

I really hope they find another way out of it.

Totally agree. Capital is usually raised to fund investment, not to pay running costs. 

[RigbyLuger]

17 minutes ago, Ragingbull said:

Hang on, they are trying to raise £250k from fan investment to be able to pay players and staff? Sounds like they are in big trouble. 

I have not so fond memories of clubs asking fans for bail outs. Its the start of a downward spiral. 

I really hope they find another way out of it.

And Salford don't have a Jamie Peacock to sell off his medals for the money to be burnt. 

Looking at Hunslet's model, https://hunsletrlfc.com/memberships/ , they have recurring payments, which make more sense, but, at a base level, are clubs who don't overspend going to be inconvenienced by a club which appears to be?

[LeytherRob]

3 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

And Salford don't have a Jamie Peacock to sell off his medals for the money to be burnt. 

Looking at Hunslet's model, https://hunsletrlfc.com/memberships/ , they have recurring payments, which make more sense, but, at a base level, are clubs who don't overspend going to be inconvenienced by a club which appears to be?

Yes i think the monthly membership is the way forward for clubs to maximize revenues from their fanbase whilst also creating some consistency to avoid short term cash flow issues that tend to plague the money-up-front season ticket model, especially when some clubs can have a full month without a home game.

It's pretty well established now in retail that customers are more likely to spend and in greater amounts when something is spread monthly over an up front cost, which is why so many companies are offering interest free credit/pay in installments now.

[OnStrike]

29 minutes ago, Ragingbull said:

Hang on, they are trying to raise £250k from fan investment to be able to pay players and staff? Sounds like they are in big trouble. 

I have not so fond memories of clubs asking fans for bail outs. Its the start of a downward spiral. 

I really hope they find another way out of it.

If they are doing this to pay players and staff, you're right, they're in trouble. But reading their statement, it says part of it is to 'maintain a competitive playing squad'. Not sure they are the same things are they? That could be read a few ways I think.

They surely know that a one off cash injection of £250,000 (or thereabouts) to pay wages owed now is not going to go very far? You'd hope so anyway. It's not something that can be done again without people rejecting it.

Good luck to them, hope it works out and the Salford fans feel a bit of ownership of their club.

[OnStrike]

3 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Yes i think the monthly membership is the way forward for clubs to maximize revenues from their fanbase whilst also creating some consistency to avoid short term cash flow issues that tend to plague the money-up-front season ticket model, especially when some clubs can have a full month without a home game.

It's pretty well established now in retail that customers are more likely to spend and in greater amounts when something is spread monthly over an up front cost, which is why so many companies are offering interest free credit/pay in installments now.

Agree with that, a small-ish monthly cost can go unnoticed but people would would think twice about putting up £100 (for example) in one go. How many people have gym memberships they barely use, paying over the odds for their TV/internet etc because they don't notice the monthly outgoing

[idrewthehaggis]

25 minutes ago, Oxford said:

So, where do you draw the line between good natured banter, essential and understandable fan rivalry and wishing fellow fans and clubs nothing but harm?

It seems to me some fans would only be happy if RL was left with their own and 6-7 others so there'd be someone to play!

Except it's already been invented, it's called Subbuteo!

so has this

"wishing nothing but harm"

It's called social media.

 

Hey ho the auld RL family Oxford.

The People' Club.

Full or partial citizen ownership is significantly more democratically and morally better.

It turns a mere sporting club into a community asset. Added to the facilities becoming wholly council owned, SRD can truly claim to be RL's People's Club.

There is a spectrum of what people ownership can develop into. Everything from 50+1 German model to membership run FC United or Wimbledon. Then there is John Lewis', Nationwide, the Co-Op and Arla. Each have well publicised strengths and weaknesses. 

At this time, this proposal seems correct for Solly. Bereft of a "sugar daddy"  recruiting the fans makes economic sense. 

It additionally throws a light of the Sport's owners finances, the fiscal doping, the levels of debt masquerading as "loans" and the "curious" sources of the monies.

Join the evolution now. You know it's right. 

https://salfordreddevils.net/owntheclub/

[LeytherRob]

4 minutes ago, OnStrike said:

Agree with that, a small-ish monthly cost can go unnoticed but people would would think twice about putting up £100 (for example) in one go. How many people have gym memberships they barely use, paying over the odds for their TV/internet etc because they don't notice the monthly outgoing

Leigh switched over from up front season tickets to a monthly membership this year and it was probably the best decision the club made through the whole rebrand. It's funny because when you actually work out what you'd be paying the cheapest adult level of membership at Leigh is essentially £300 for a season ticket which is the highest it's ever been by some margin, but there was nothing but praise from the fan base and the club is at record levels of season ticket/membership. Previously there would always be comments about the affordability of season tickets that were priced in the £200-£250 range but when you see it as £25 a month it suddenly looks quite enticing.

[Pie tries]

Good luck to Salford

Im buying a share. I want a strong Salford, and a stronger rugby league. Fan model good step - especially coupled with council buying the stadium. 
 
I liked the comments about Leigh - all clubs need to do more…

[Roughyed Rats]

Sounds all too familiar. Oldham Bears did exactly this before they went bust. I've still got my shares certificate.

[BladeHearts]

2 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Totally agree. Capital is usually raised to fund investment, not to pay running costs. 

With Foundation of Hearts we have 8000 members paying a minimum of £10 per month and usually raise just under £150k per month.

It should be noted that the shares are owned by FoH not individuals and its 1 member per vote regardless of whether you pay £10 per month or £1000 per month.

The club still has a separate board of directors of which FoH has 2 members and the club mantra is "fan owned not fan run".

Edited April 25, 2023 by BladeHearts

[Griff]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

This is my only issue with it - it surely needs to be a recurring/subscription model or else they will need to do the same again very soon.

They already have a subscription model.  They call them "season tickets".

Edited April 25, 2023 by Griff

[BladeHearts]

9 minutes ago, Griff said:

They already have a subscription model.  They can them "season tickets".

The FoH model is a monthly subscription... we also have 16,000 season ticket holders

[Griff]

Just now, BladeHearts said:

The FoH model is a monthly subscription... we also have 16,000 season ticket holders

Salford don't have that many.

What do FoH members get for their subscription ?

[BladeHearts]

Just now, Griff said:

Salford don't have that many.

What do FoH members get for their subscription ?

Absolutely nothing except a vote... although it has the benefit of meaning that the money the club receives is tax-free.

It started as a vehicle to save the club when we were in administration back in 2014.

[Griff]

6 minutes ago, BladeHearts said:

Absolutely nothing except a vote... although it has the benefit of meaning that the money the club receives is tax-free.

It started as a vehicle to save the club when we were in administration back in 2014.

A vote for what ?

[BladeHearts]

3 minutes ago, Griff said:

A vote for what ?

A vote at the FoH AGM, election of office bearers, directors etc...

Any decision on ownership, selling shares, selling ground etc...  requires a 95% super-majority.

[The Daddy]

What if 250k isn't raised by June 5th, what happens then?

Seems like this is another way of saying the club is in trouble financially 

[Griff]

1 hour ago, BladeHearts said:

A vote at the FoH AGM, election of office bearers, directors etc...

Any decision on ownership, selling shares, selling ground etc...  requires a 95% super-majority.

The FoH owns the ground, then?

[LeytherRob]

53 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

What if 250k isn't raised by June 5th, what happens then?

Seems like this is another way of saying the club is in trouble financially 

According to the pdfs, the money is returned. What that does to Salfords financials, who knows but Paul Kings comments about 'running out of road' don't sound particularly comforting. It was probably a bit of a red flag when Salford let Sarginson and Lannon go and said they didn't have funds for replacements. 

[sweaty craiq]

19 hours ago, Jughead said:

It doesn’t sound good but they always seem to find a way to keep above water. 

Yea, by not paying bills

[sweaty craiq]

So bloke A has a debt of say £250k secured against his home, does the share issue provide the money to pay the debt and free his home, or does it cover the next set of losses?

[Agbrigg]

We have had a few of these schemes at Wakey over the years. The latest one was this season, wanting £500 donations. Quite a few paid up in good faith. However it's OK handing money over to the club. But if you then trust a bloke like Carter to spend it then you are just urinating it down the drain.

[Griff]

Was it not Bradford who took donations and immediately went into liquidation?

Classic money down the drain. Unless you're a creditor, obviously.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Griff said:

Was it not Bradford who took donations and immediately went into liquidation?

Classic money down the drain. Unless you're a creditor, obviously.

£500 it was iirc. 

The fact they are saying this is for day to day running costs not some major infrastructure is worrying.

[DI Keith Fowler]

I'd be quite keen to go in on this, I've always had a soft spot for Salford and lived there for a while. However, I'm concerned by the suggestion that this is to cover running costs in a last roll of the dice rather than a considered attempt to become a wholly fan owned democratic club. I'll wait and see in the next few weeks what emerges.