Report: 2025 World Cup on verge of collapse

[Gomersall]

12 minutes ago, The Partisan said:

Aren't Australia in the semi finals ?

Represented by an immigration lawyer! Yikes! I digress.

[Damien]

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

 I think I have given a very good description of what at the time was the NRL’s priority for public funding, which explains a hesitancy to jump in for 2025.

If you disagree that the RLWC should have been of a higher priority than stadium upgrades, then that’s fine.

Yeah because it all comes from the same pot. Any funding for a RL World Cup is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. Geez the last World Cup in Australia didn't even get NSW government funding, hence just 2 games in Sydney.

They are not mutually exclusive. This is just a lame path you are trying to go down. These upgrades are benefitting all sports and their world events.

[Damien]

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

If it was decided years ago to alternate hemispheres like you suggest, why was 2025 scheduled for USA? Why did France lobby the French government for funding when USA fell over?

Because the USA came forward and Australia again were all too quick to let them take it on. France didn't, Australia pushed the France bid for 2025 when France bidding for 2029 would have been much more practical.

Look this really isn't difficult to understand. The World Cup since 2000 has alternated between England and Australia and will do in the absence of other bids. If USA, South Africa or France come forward then they'll be looked at and slotted in. This isn't rocket science.

[Damien]

9 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

France threw their hat in the ring with the backing of millions from their national government. Are you now suggesting the NRL are poor guardians of the sport for not bidding against France. Ridiculous.

As I have clearly stated before, if France falls over, I do expect the WC to be hosted in Aus. I said this for the very same reason you suggest, because Australia can host an event at short notice with minimal external funding. So what are you actually arguing with me for?

Talk about musrepresenting posts. That's woeful strawman stuff.

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Gomersall said:

Except you denied Tonga chose to tour England because the proposed 4 Nations tournament in Australia wasn’t confirmed.

This from Woolf is as clear as it gets:

“These talks have been going on since the World Cup ended. There was no proposal for another opportunity. It came to a point where we had to make a decision on what was in front of us and in the end there was only one opportunity.”

I am certain that if the NRL had put a proposal to Tonga for a 4 Nations that we wouldn't be seeing Tonga tour. I'm really glad they didn't though and that we will see Tonga on these shores this autumn. Fair play to Tonga too for grasping that opportunity. 

[Sports Prophet]

42 minutes ago, Damien said:

Because the USA came forward and Australia again were all too quick to let them take it on. France didn't, Australia pushed the France bid for 2025 when France bidding for 2029 would have been much more practical.

The NRL were all to quick to let USA take it on???? What on earth man?

IIRC Moore Sports wanted to host 2021 in USA and were pipped in the bidding by the RFL but the IRL gave MS the 2025 hosting rights. What has that got to do with Australia or the NRL? You say they were all too quick to let them take it on, what do you suggest, that they should have bid for 2025 against USA? I think most were excited by the prospect of a USA WC. Imagine the NRL haters throwing all their handbags at the NRL if they bid against the USA.

Then when that fell over, the NRL pushed France into hosting 2025 you say???? I suppose they twisted the arm of the French government to “commit” €60m of public funding as well. 

At the risk of repeating myself… I think most were excited by the prospect of a French WC. Imagine the NRL haters throwing all their handbags at the NRL if they bid against the French. Not that I have seen anything to back up your claims that France were pushed into hosting 2025 anyway. 

Here we have France on the brink of falling over and somehow you want to spin this into another demonising NRL situation.

[Jughead]

John Davidson reporting postponement till 2026, a scaled down tournament or it being moved to Australia the most likely avenues. 

I don’t want a scaled down tournament. The womens, PDRL and wheelchair tournaments made the World Cup so scaling it down in size isn’t an option, for me. Scaling down the men’s tournament is a no as well. I didn’t like the format of the 2021 tournament but I don’t think the smaller nations should be losing places in the tournament altogether.

Push it back a year and give it to Australia and New Zealand. 

[John Rhino]

On 11/05/2023 at 13:20, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

You don't agree to host the tournament unless the funding is 100% secure. Just yet another "hold your breath, hopefully it'll work out somehow" failure of governance within back-of-a-fag-packet rugby league. Amateur hour time after time. 

No it's not. A change in ministerial responsibility according to the Indy this morning. 

I think we all know what that means... 

[Sports Prophet]

15 hours ago, HawkMan said:

Here's an idea   a bit left field,  but unique.

A WC in four different countries,  as Euro 2020( 2021) was played in different cities, we have a RL WC , four groups of four, one group each played in Australia,  New Zealand,  France and England.

No sport has ever tried that,  so it would grab headlines for that reason alone. A true " World" Cup.

Matches down under kicking off normal times, so between 8 and 11 am in England, then the France group about 5pm local,  and the England group game at 8pm local.

One match a day from each group,  all TGG supporters feel part of it, all get matches to see locally.  It would be cost effective too,  less teams traversing the globe, low carbon footprint as well.

I think there is a future for events like this. Are you suggesting an Atlantic pair of groups and a Pacific pair of groups? That would guarantee at least four Atlantic nations into the Quarter finals (if we can call Lebanon Atlantic). That would mean two of Australia, Tonga, Samoa, NZ, Fiji and PNG all missing out on a Q Final spot, but I’m ok with that.

The positive outcome is that we see two more Atlantic squads join England and Lebanon in the quarters. What is difficult though is the Quarters, or Semis where you fly everyone from one side to join the others remaining. That is a huge advantage for the teams that don’t travel. I think this model struggles for Women’s and Wheelchair versions, but that’s ok too.

[Damien]

41 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

The NRL were all to quick to let USA take it on???? What on earth man?

IIRC Moore Sports wanted to host 2021 in USA and were pipped in the bidding by the RFL but the IRL gave MS the 2025 hosting rights. What has that got to do with Australia or the NRL? You say they were all too quick to let them take it on, what do you suggest, that they should have bid for 2025 against USA? I think most were excited by the prospect of a USA WC. Imagine the NRL haters throwing all their handbags at the NRL if they bid against the USA.

Then when that fell over, the NRL pushed France into hosting 2025 you say???? I suppose they twisted the arm of the French government to “commit” €60m of public funding as well. 

At the risk of repeating myself… I think most were excited by the prospect of a French WC. Imagine the NRL haters throwing all their handbags at the NRL if they bid against the French. Not that I have seen anything to back up your claims that France were pushed into hosting 2025 anyway. 

Here we have France on the brink of falling over and somehow you want to spin this into another demonising NRL situation.

Strawman stuff again. Absolutely no one had said the NRL should bid against the French. No one. Please stop with the shifting sands approach, selecting quoting and taking replies in isolation. You are better than that.

[Damien]

42 minutes ago, Jughead said:

John Davidson reporting postponement till 2026, a scaled down tournament or it being moved to Australia the most likely avenues. 

I don’t want a scaled down tournament. The womens, PDRL and wheelchair tournaments made the World Cup so scaling it down in size isn’t an option, for me. Scaling down the men’s tournament is a no as well. I didn’t like the format of the 2021 tournament but I don’t think the smaller nations should be losing places in the tournament altogether.

Push it back a year and give it to Australia and New Zealand. 

I don't like the tournament being put back, the 4 year cycle we are on was so we don't clash with other sports World Cup cycles. Scaling back doesn't appeal to me either.

I personally don't see why all the World Cups need to be lumped into one. We have had great World Cups without that and doing this makes it much more difficult and costly for a country to host. I can see the appeal of both approaches but I certainly think there are benefits to the women's, wheelchair and PDRL being events in their own right.

[Damien]

16 hours ago, Dave T said:

You reap what you sow. 

The lack of groundwork has meant the whole international game has no real foundations. 

To think we can just stage four huge world cups combined when we don't even stage proper credible internationals in the country most years is just stupid. 

Our arrogance and burying our head in the sand last year led to some real average off field performance in rlwc21 and it's hard to see how France 25 could do well. 

I desperate hope something can be resolved, because I'd have loved to have gone over there for plenty of games. 

But tbh, I'm not far off done with international RL. 

I meant to reply to this earlier as I thought you were correct Dave and I absolutely know how you feel. The game at international level should be going great guns by now but since the 2013 World Cup it been a decade wasted. Everything good that has happened since then, whether the semi-final at Wembley, the final, the rise of Tonga and subsequently PNG and Samoa, England getting to the 2017 final etc, has not been capitalised upon.

In RL I am sick of hearing about the slowly, slowly approach. Its nonsense and is often just a convenient excuse to do nothing or just doing the minimal amount. By now we should have been having 3 mid season international weekends, as previous NRL administrations were working towards, and regular end of season tournaments for all teams. Instead if anything the game has gone backwards at a time when we have more strong international nations than ever before.

[Sports Prophet]

26 minutes ago, Damien said:

Strawman stuff again. Absolutely no one had said the NRL should bid against the French. No one. Please stop with the shifting sands approach, selecting quoting and taking replies in isolation. You are better than that.

You said the NRL pushed France and were all too quick to let USA host the 2025 WC.

You said it was agreed by the governors to swap hemispheres each iteration.

So if you are not suggesting the NRL should have bid against them with that statement, then what on earth are you talking about? Please.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Sports Prophet

[Sports Prophet]

I too would like to see more international footy, but, it is entirely reasonable that the NRL, RFL and their competing clubs are hesitant to support a whole host of mid season international fixtures that have the potential to majorly disrupt momentum and present potential season changing injuries.

There is no fair reason why there is not an established end of season cycle.

I would like to see a two year World Series immediately after the WC year, with the Quarter Finalists all competing and playing each other in that cycle, played in Europe one year and the Pacific the other, home fixtures where possible. That would give 12 tests a year and leave year three for nations to sort out tours or not the year before the next WC.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Sports Prophet

[HawkMan]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think there is a future for events like this. Are you suggesting an Atlantic pair of groups and a Pacific pair of groups? That would guarantee at least four Atlantic nations into the Quarter finals (if we can call Lebanon Atlantic). That would mean two of Australia, Tonga, Samoa, NZ, Fiji and PNG all missing out on a Q Final spot, but I’m ok with that.

The positive outcome is that we see two more Atlantic squads join England and Lebanon in the quarters. What is difficult though is the Quarters, or Semis where you fly everyone from one side to join the others remaining. That is a huge advantage for the teams that don’t travel. I think this model struggles for Women’s and Wheelchair versions, but that’s ok too.

No I'm not suggesting the England and France groups are made up of just northern hemisphere teams, or Oz and NZ are southern hemisphere teams only. They'd be some Northern travelling south and vice versa. The draw would not exactly be fixed but tailored to get a good competitive mix and taking into account factors like the Italy and Lebanon teams are made up of Aussies and should play in the Oz or NZ group.

Something like;

A England,  Tonga,  Scotland,  Jamaica ( played in England) 8pm local time / breakfast viewing in OZ/NZ

B France,  Samoa,  Fiji,  Greece ( played in France) 6pm local time. 6am approx viewing in OZ/NZ

C Australia, Lebanon,  Cook Islands, Wales( played in Australia) normal NRL KO times.

Morning viewing in England 

D New Zealand,  PNG, Ireland, Italy ( played in NZ) normal NRL KO times. Morning viewing in England 

QFINALS- Winners and Runners Up from groups A +B play in England and France 

Winners and Runners Up from groups C+D play in Australia and NZ 

SF- matches in QF played midweek then 10 day gap until SF in Australia. 

Winners from Northern hemisphere QF's given time to readjust before playing in Oz. 

QF Winners from Northern matches paired with Southern hemisphere Winners, thus avoiding an inevitable Australia vs NZ semi.

Then final following weekend.

K.O Rounds something like this;

QF England v Fiji ( in England)

     Samoa v Tonga ( in France)

     Australia v PNG ( in Australia)

    New Zealand v Lebanon ( in NZ)

SEMIS AND FINAL IN Australia 

England v NZ 

Australia v Samoa 

This is just a run down of how format would work.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by HawkMan

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

You said the NRL pushed France and were all too quick to let USA host the 2025 WC.

You said it was agreed by the governors to swap hemispheres each iteration.

So if you are not suggesting the NRL should have bid against them with that statement, then what on earth are you talking about? Please.

 

If you stopped with the strawman arguments and selective quoting you may know what you are talking about.

This started because you got upset that I said it would be Australia's turn to host it in 2025. You disagree, that's fine. The rest is just nonsense because you are misrepresenting posts and selectively quoting just to keep arguing. Frankly I've better things to do than to continue this. You don't think its Australia's turn, that fine. Let's leave it at that.

[Henson Park Old Firm]

Does anyone have concrete news on what's happening with this WC? Or is this just a Oprah Winfrey gabfest????

[welshmagpie]

If it gets moved to 2026, the IRL would be wise to say we repeat this year’s schedule again in 2025.

2025 European Championship

2025 Americas Cup

2025 MEA Cup (this time Lebanon have no choice but to partake)

2025 Pacific whatever they’re doing…

2025 Pacific Tour of England 

[Copa]

The US hosting is just some weird fever dream. The sport is unknown in the country.

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Strawman stuff again. Absolutely no one had said the NRL should bid against the French. No one. Please stop with the shifting sands approach, selecting quoting and taking replies in isolation. You are better than that.

Are you quite sure about that?

[Big Picture]

3 hours ago, Damien said:

I don't like the tournament being put back, the 4 year cycle we are on was so we don't clash with other sports World Cup cycles. Scaling back doesn't appeal to me either.

I personally don't see why all the World Cups need to be lumped into one. We have had great World Cups without that and doing this makes it much more difficult and costly for a country to host. I can see the appeal of both approaches but I certainly think there are benefits to the women's, wheelchair and PDRL being events in their own right.

This won't be a popular view with some here, but does the game really need those other three events?  They surely make hosting a World Cup most expensive but probably don't add much value (if any at all) to TV rights or sponsorship and so they're more or less just additional cost.

There could be legitimate reasons to have a Women's World Cup as many other sports have those too, but either have it as a standalone event like they do or don't bother.

[Sports Prophet]

22 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

And guess what… should France withdraw from hosting 2025 (which I don’t think will happen), which country will be responsible for picking up the late tab to ensure it happens anywhere in 2025?

Go on, have a guess. 

I’ll give you a hint, it won’t be England.

 

21 hours ago, Damien said:

Yes because it would be Australia's turn. That is why they were so quick to dump it on France in the first place.

 

7 hours ago, Damien said:

Because the USA came forward and Australia again were all too quick to let them take it on. France didn't, Australia pushed the France bid for 2025 when France bidding for 2029 would have been much more practical.

Look this really isn't difficult to understand. The World Cup since 2000 has alternated between England and Australia and will do in the absence of other bids. If USA, South Africa or France come forward then they'll be looked at and slotted in. This isn't rocket science.

Go back and read my posts in the thread for heavens sake @Damien. Before you even butted in with your piece I had said that I expect Australia to be the nation that steps up if it all turns to poop in France.

Then look at your immediate antagonistic response to mine, you still decided to come in and start an argument with me.

Then you start talking nonsense about Australia “dumping” the tournament on France and being “all to quick” to let USA host. All you have done is find a way to argue against me, despite you agreeing with me.

And don’t worry, I am not upset. I don’t let a difference of opinion on a discussion board upset me.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Before you even butted in with your piece

Sorry if replying to one of your posts is butting in. Maybe discussion isn't for you and a blog where you can post your views, without the temerity of people butting in, is more your thing. As I said let's leave it, its boring for everyone. If you don't want to that's fine but I won't be replying to you on this.

[Sports Prophet]

4 hours ago, HawkMan said:

Something like;

A England,  Tonga,  Scotland,  Jamaica ( played in England) 8pm local time / breakfast viewing in OZ/NZ

B France,  Samoa,  Fiji,  Greece ( played in France) 6pm local time. 6am approx viewing in OZ/NZ

C Australia, Lebanon,  Cook Islands, Wales( played in Australia) normal NRL KO times.

Morning viewing in England 

D New Zealand,  PNG, Ireland, Italy ( played in NZ) normal NRL KO times. Morning viewing in England 

QFINALS- Winners and Runners Up from groups A +B play in England and France 

Winners and Runners Up from groups C+D play in Australia and NZ 

SEMIS AND FINAL IN Australia 

England v NZ 

Australia v Samoa 

This is just a run down of how format would work.

 

It has great merits.

4 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I would like to see a two year World Series immediately after the WC year, with the Quarter Finalists all competing and playing each other in that cycle, played in Europe one year and the Pacific the other, home fixtures where possible. That would give 12 tests a year and leave year three for nations to sort out tours or not the year before the next WC.

I have previously raised my opinions at the lack of competitive fixtures in a WC and have presented a 20 team format that allows more nations to compete, with the final 6 nations playing each other over a period of six weeks including a final.

My theory above is that this two year cycle will see all the quarter finalists of a WC play each other once again over a two year period in a round robin.

Example Yr 1 after WC in Europe

Eng, Aus, Ton, Fij all play each other

NZ, Sam, PNG, Leb all play each other

Yr 2 in Pacific

Eng, Aus, Ton and Fij all play PNG, NZ, Sam and Leb 

It would be so good to see those nations play each other. Imagine the value that would add to the small Pacific Islands and Lebanon. Or it would be great to see France qualify and/or Ireland. More Euro teams the better.

[eal]

4 hours ago, Copa said:

The US hosting is just some weird fever dream. The sport is unknown in the country.

The sport is basically unknown in France also. A RLWC in France is at least as far-fetched as the USA hosting.