Smart Balls

[GUBRATS]

8 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I've suggested this for years. Was always told it can't be done.

Hopefully this is a step to policing forward passes more effectively and quickly.

You don't like Leeds do you ? 

[EggFace]

10 hours ago, HawkMan said:

If the balls in Union get too smart they'll think, " stuff this" and next time they get booted into the crowd they won't come back.

Thats lush I'm howling my head off

[sam4731]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I agree with the sentiment, but I would have been a little more diplomatic about it and have said “who cares if on the spot, the referee calls the odd pass which travels a few mm forward as ok!”

And what about that few mm forward pass determines the result of a grand final? This is what bugs me about the anti technology gang. Sport is intrinsically a game of inches so these things do matter.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, sam4731 said:

And what about that few mm forward pass determines the result of a grand final? This is what bugs me about the anti technology gang. Sport is intrinsically a game of inches so these things do matter.

As I said, I am comfortable when a referee calls a line ball decision one way or the other. Depending on the circumstances, I can even forgive a howler. I prefer my sport to have the human element.

Next, people be asking for robot police officers.

[Madrileño]

4 hours ago, EggFace said:

Thats lush I'm howling my head off

Really? 

[GUBRATS]

6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

As I said, I am comfortable when a referee calls a line ball decision one way or the other. Depending on the circumstances, I can even forgive a howler. I prefer my sport to have the human element.

Next, people be asking for robot police officers.

What is a ' line ball ' ? 

I assume it's Aussie speak for a forward pass ? 

[Sports Prophet]

11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

What is a ' line ball ' ? 

I assume it's Aussie speak for a forward pass ? 

Line ball is a 50/50 decision.

In relation to the topic at hand, a pass that could’ve been called forward on another day but I understand why it wasn’t tonight kind of thing.

[sam4731]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

As I said, I am comfortable when a referee calls a line ball decision one way or the other. Depending on the circumstances, I can even forgive a howler. I prefer my sport to have the human element.

Next, people be asking for robot police officers.

No you're right. I'm sure you go to the person in the bank to withdraw money, enjoy talking to call centre agents and never use self service checkouts. Technology does not have to be a dirty word.

[phiggins]

On 18/05/2023 at 09:18, OriginalMrC said:

Wish sports would stop continuously looking at technology that completely ruins the flow of the game. Who cares if a pass is a few mm forward. Far worse things to worry about in both codes 

Given we already have a video referee, who can at times look at a replay half a dozen times to see if the tip of a ball has touched a line or not, I would've thought new technology might be better for the flow of the game.

There's been no new technology introduced to the video ref in the 20 odd years we've had it. In the meantime, cricket have used hawkeye, hot spot and ultraedge to improve their systems. Football has goal line technology to give an instant decision. We have slow motion replays, and that's it. 

[Dunbar]

My view on these things is that we will add each change as a sensible increment to what we already have... I.e. we already have the video ref so why not use technology to determine the legality of passes.

Then with each change rolled up we will look at the game one day and realise we have created something awful. 

[DavidM]

Just now, Dunbar said:

My view on these things is that we will add each change as a sensible increment to what we already have... I.e. we already have the video ref so why not use technology to determine the legality of passes.

Then with each change rolled up we will look at the game one day and realise we have created something awful. 

I was sitting watching Howard Webb on Sky dissecting VAR incidents , and looking at the process they went through with lines on the pitch , crosshairs , going to the monitor , all kinds of voices appearing on audio , endless acronyms and top level conversations …. And about half way through I just had to remind myself , this is sport . Players are standing around , fans are sitting there . I mean where have we got to and where do we want to end up ? This endless search for perfection is not only lacking any empathy with the game , it’s impossible anyway 

[GUBRATS]

9 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Given we already have a video referee, who can at times look at a replay half a dozen times to see if the tip of a ball has touched a line or not, I would've thought new technology might be better for the flow of the game.

There's been no new technology introduced to the video ref in the 20 odd years we've had it. In the meantime, cricket have used hawkeye, hot spot and ultraedge to improve their systems. Football has goal line technology to give an instant decision. We have slow motion replays, and that's it. 

Cricket it a simpler game , and has simpler solutions , we can't use tiny microphones to tell us if a ball touched somebody's hand , do we really need heat camera's to do the same ? 

Much simpler putting sensors between the posts in football , and quite simply that the ball is round , it wouldn't work with an oval ball , and football is still a complete mess , requiring just some simple rule changes to get rid of loads of acts of cheating and deliberate advantage gains , they don't do it because they like the ' drama ' , it gives those highly paid pundits fuel to criticise others for what they are incapable of 

We just need a few rules simplifying  

[GUBRATS]

7 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I was sitting watching Howard Webb on Sky dissecting VAR incidents , and looking at the process they went through with lines on the pitch , crosshairs , going to the monitor , all kinds of voices appearing on audio , endless acronyms and top level conversations …. And about half way through I just had to remind myself , this is sport . Players are standing around , fans are sitting there . I mean where have we got to and where do we want to end up ? This endless search for perfection is not only lacking any empathy with the game , it’s impossible anyway 

Correct 

[OriginalMrC]

1 hour ago, phiggins said:

Given we already have a video referee, who can at times look at a replay half a dozen times to see if the tip of a ball has touched a line or not, I would've thought new technology might be better for the flow of the game.

There's been no new technology introduced to the video ref in the 20 odd years we've had it. In the meantime, cricket have used hawkeye, hot spot and ultraedge to improve their systems. Football has goal line technology to give an instant decision. We have slow motion replays, and that's it. 

It depends what you want from sport. In my opinion video technology is ruining sports. Sport should be about passion, commitment and excitement. It shouldn't boil down to microscopic decisions. Let's stop finding ways to disallow tries and let the game flow. 

[Sports Prophet]

4 hours ago, sam4731 said:

No you're right. I'm sure you go to the person in the bank to withdraw money, enjoy talking to call centre agents and never use self service checkouts. Technology does not have to be a dirty word.

Yeah, I’m not denouncing technology. I do enjoy watching the game on a tv for example. Live too.

When I’m at the game, I prefer the auto ticket gates rather than the old walk through steel cages. Great technology too.

As for on the pitch, nah, I’m ok. Ned thought will be asking for robot players too.

[sam4731]

16 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Yeah, I’m not denouncing technology. I do enjoy watching the game on a tv for example. Live too.

When I’m at the game, I prefer the auto ticket gates rather than the old walk through steel cages. Great technology too.

As for on the pitch, nah, I’m ok. Ned thought will be asking for robot players too.

To be fair, the way esports is going, it won't be long before we have robot sports. People will bet on anything after all.

[EggFace]

11 hours ago, Madrileño said:

Really? 

Yes.....I was...You Okay Hun ?

[phiggins]

2 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

It depends what you want from sport. In my opinion video technology is ruining sports. Sport should be about passion, commitment and excitement. It shouldn't boil down to microscopic decisions. Let's stop finding ways to disallow tries and let the game flow. 

Actually agree with that. I'd sooner do away with the video ref altogether. But if we are going to use technology, we should actually use it. Not just another ref watching more replays.

[David Shepherd]

4 hours ago, phiggins said:

Given we already have a video referee, who can at times look at a replay half a dozen times to see if the tip of a ball has touched a line or not, I would've thought new technology might be better for the flow of the game.

There's been no new technology introduced to the video ref in the 20 odd years we've had it. In the meantime, cricket have used hawkeye, hot spot and ultraedge to improve their systems. Football has goal line technology to give an instant decision. We have slow motion replays, and that's it. 

I actually think we've got the balance between tech and human decisions absolutely spot on.

Football's VAR is a total mess.  Cricket is a slow paced game that can afford the stoppages for Third Umpire decisions.  The nature of cricket is such that it lends itself to close scrutiny of decisions with ultra edge and hawkeye etc.

RL is different, it's fast and furious and the odd howler has little material effect on the outcome of a game.

Just look at how the TMO has decimated what was left of Kick and Clap's entertainment value.

Nothing broken about our system, no need to fix it.

[gingerjon]

27 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

I actually think we've got the balance between tech and human decisions absolutely spot on.

Football's VAR is a total mess.  Cricket is a slow paced game that can afford the stoppages for Third Umpire decisions.  The nature of cricket is such that it lends itself to close scrutiny of decisions with ultra edge and hawkeye etc.

RL is different, it's fast and furious and the odd howler has little material effect on the outcome of a game.

Just look at how the TMO has decimated what was left of Kick and Clap's entertainment value.

Nothing broken about our system, no need to fix it.

If it's fast as soccer's goal line check then I'm fine with it. If it's as slow as cricket's DRS then ... nah.

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Line ball is a 50/50 decision.

In relation to the topic at hand, a pass that could’ve been called forward on another day but I understand why it wasn’t tonight kind of thing.

So as I said , a forward pass

[Sports Prophet]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

So as I said , a forward pass

Not as mandatory, I wouldn’t say so. I think a flat pass or barely backwards would also fit the description if I was using it on the spot.

I may be using it incorrectly of course.

 

[Padge]

On 18/05/2023 at 08:27, Harry Stottle said:

Just reading this Smart Balls with gizmos in them going to be trialled at the Rugby U 20's World cup in South Africa, thoughts please:-

In South Africa, the technology will be used by replay officials to identify forward passes, whether the ball crossed the tryline, where it crossed the touchline, when it was touched in flight and if a throw-in was straight.

"A direct feed will be made available to the Television Match Official (TMO), who will be able to use the information to provide feedback to the referee," said the statement.

The technology will not be used at the 2023 World Cup in France in September and October, World Rugby said.

"A fast game is a good game, and it is right that we explore technology that has the potential to help aid the flow of the game, reduce stoppage time and speed up match official decision-making," said World Rugby director of rugby Phil Davies.

The only way it can be used to judge a forward pass is to give access to the players GPS data, you can't judge a forward pass by comparing its travel to the lines on the pitch.

A phone's GPS is accurate to about 5m, and can be distorted by buildings etc.nThe highest accuracy is within a few centre metres using dual transmission to compensate for atmospheric  and structural distortions.

Stadiums may have blind spots or confusing reflected signals due to the nature of the buildings.

Obviously from one end of the scale to the other is low cost to high cost.

I am sceptical about the reliability of the technology and I can't see the RFL paying for high precision dual transmission to overcome echoes and blind spots in stadia.

[Padge]

On 19/05/2023 at 06:55, Sports Prophet said:

Line ball is a 50/50 decision.

In relation to the topic at hand, a pass that could’ve been called forward on another day but I understand why it wasn’t tonight kind of thing.

No it isn't, it's a ball passed in a straight line between two players, neither forward or backwards, which is legal. The law is the ball must not be passed forward, not that it must be passed back so an along the line pass is legal.

[Padge]

On 19/05/2023 at 14:30, gingerjon said:

If it's fast as soccer's goal line check then I'm fine with it. 

Comparing a ball's position to a fixed line is easier and doesn't even need GPS. Comparing it's travel to two moving players is a totally different, erm, ball game.