August Magic Venues

[Chilli Sauce]

For the avoidance of doubt… not classy establishments to watch rabbits be extracted from hats.

On my return from Newcastle this weekend I’ve been trying to think of venues that could host late summer Magic (if the rumours swirling are true)… on the proviso that precious Premiership round ball carpets are off the table during their season.

There actually aren’t that many in the U.K. & Ireland … club rugby (either code are all too small) are off the table. Only ones I can think are Hampden, Cardiff, national stadia in London and Dublin? Tottenham have their fancy two pitch set up for the NFL too.

Of course we know that the game doesn’t do damage to surfaces in the way other sports do… but I’m not sure that’d wash.

Any ideas?

First post here too… I’m not looking for trouble, just a lurker that felt the need to finally chip in.

[Man of Kent]

Welcome, Chili Sauce. 

I don’t think it’s at all clear whether Magic Weekend will continue in its current form.

We know IMG is looking at a new event and the tea leaves suggest it may be a new competition with silverware.

We also know Magic/Magic Mark II will be moved to late summer, say August Bank Holiday weekend, due to the 2024 Challenge Cup Final being played in late May/early June.

This would open it up to football grounds, including the Etihad where the RFL is based…..

[JohnM]

I can't imagine that IMG would suggest moving Magic Weekend to late August without considering where it might take place.

In any case, I think IMG may propose, but it's the clubs that dispose.

[shrewsbury roughyed]

I think it should carry on when and where it is, for the next couple of years at least. The venue is great; the city is great. The crowds were good, despite not all the matches not being crowd-pullers on paper. I would extend it by cancelling Championship and League 1 fixtures for the weekend and giving good deals to season ticket holders of those clubs. I wouldn't pay a high price to watch a solitary super league game but the Magic price for 6 games is great.  Perhaps there could even be a top Championship and even  League 1 game played at Magic. I would go earlier to watch those and it may get more fans in. There could easily be more work done in local schools, perhaps a free child with a weekend paying adult. It didn't appear that too many locals were aware of the event. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Jughead]

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

I can't imagine that IMG would suggest moving Magic Weekend to late August without considering where it might take place.

In any case, I think IMG may propose, but it's the clubs that dispose.

Rhodri Jones said that part of what was being looked as was the “ebbs and flows of the season” and that the Challenge Cup was going to be moved “earlier in the year” (though no actual date on when) and as such, they would like at where Magic fits in, if at all due to IMG wanting to replace/remove it. It seems like August bank holiday has been suggested, with no actual source behind it, as a date for Magic, as a result. Essentially, it’s all guesswork.

You have the play-off finals in May at Wembley plus the FA Cup, FA Trophy and FA Vase finals so May is pretty much full at Wembley. June you sometimes have international football plus concerts on the main pitch, so it depends on what’s planned from year to year. 

[Chilli Sauce]

I think it does attract more than just Superleague club support too… I normally support a Championship side, but will go to Magic even if we have a game on, as it’s a chance to have a weekend away with family who love the game, but are far away from any league club.

I’ve spoken to people who aren’t RL aficionados, but have gone because it’s a quality weekend away. For that the venue and host city are of real importance.

[Man of Kent]

Listening to Rhodri Jones on the BBC (5Live podcast and Super League Show), it is clear Magic doesn't make enough money and IMG/RL Commerical think they can/should do better with something else.

Things will be announced after the new TV deal is revealed this month. Suggestions are it will be multiple broadcasters, with every game streamed.

[EggFace]

4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Welcome, Chili Sauce. 

I don’t think it’s at all clear whether Magic Weekend will continue in its current form.

We know IMG is looking at a new event and the tea leaves suggest it may be a new competition with silverware.

We also know Magic/Magic Mark II will be moved to late summer, say August Bank Holiday weekend, due to the 2024 Challenge Cup Final being played in late May/early June.

This would open it up to football grounds, including the Etihad where the RFL is based…..

I hope a change of venue for the Challenge Cup then.

[Tommygilf]

26 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Listening to Rhodri Jones on the BBC (5Live podcast and Super League Show), it is clear Magic doesn't make enough money and IMG/RL Commerical think they can/should do better with something else.

Things will be announced after the new TV deal is revealed this month. Suggestions are it will be multiple broadcasters, with every game streamed.

I think that is a sensible approach. Magic should be used to drive revenues, cities should bid to host it as its a lucrative event for them. Broadcasters seem to like it. 

If it satisfies those criteria and grows commercially then it should stay, if not then consider its future.

[Damien]

28 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Listening to Rhodri Jones on the BBC (5Live podcast and Super League Show), it is clear Magic doesn't make enough money and IMG/RL Commerical think they can/should do better with something else.

Things will be announced after the new TV deal is revealed this month. Suggestions are it will be multiple broadcasters, with every game streamed.

Interesting and that along with fan feedback is is why IMG have proposed to scrap it.

New TV deal revealed this month? That will be interesting and pivotal to what happens going forward.

[sam4731]

Personally I would rather see Magic become a 9s competition. I know its a controversial opinion but we could take the game to new markets whilst also providing a more digestible form of the game. I'd also place a greater effort to get this on FTA and make it a real festival vibe. An event like this could really become iconic if it was given to right person to market dare I say... Eddie Hearn ducks for cover

[Chris22]

I think we need to be very careful about change. The venue is central to an event like this working. That can be seen by the Summer Bash's decline since leaving Blackpool. Newcastle's location is perfect for the event and Cardiff also worked well (Edinburgh, Manchester and Liverpool, less so).

There's lots of talk about 9's competitions but let's think about that. There has been almost no 9's competition in the UK so we have no idea of the appetite for it. Realistically, teams will leave out their best players so they avoid injury and are available in Super League.

We will have no idea whether any given team would play on day 1, day 2 or both. Once your team is out fans of that club would leave, meaning the final would be played in front of a near empty stadium at the end of day 2. It sounds like a nice idea but in practice, I struggle to see how it gets off the ground.

Currently, we get 60,000+ in attendance over two days, more than an average Super League round and all matches shown on TV. Unlike the Grand Final and Cup Final, crowds are not declining. It's unrealistic to suggest the the Challenge Cup would get a sudden boost and more neutrals would suddenly attend the cup final if Magic Weekend was scrapped.

There's more we can do to make Magic better but throwing a successful event in the bin or going back to the drawing board and making fundamental changes strikes me as a terrible idea. 

Edited June 6 by Chris22

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Interesting and that along with fan feedback is is why IMG have proposed to scrap it.

New TV deal revealed this month? That will be interesting and pivotal to what happens going forward.

Did the fan feedback say scrap magic? I can't recall that atm is all.

[Tommygilf]

45 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Personally I would rather see Magic become a 9s competition. I know its a controversial opinion but we could take the game to new markets whilst also providing a more digestible form of the game. I'd also place a greater effort to get this on FTA and make it a real festival vibe. An event like this could really become iconic if it was given to right person to market dare I say... Eddie Hearn ducks for cover

I like it as an idea if nothing else because it keeps people in the ground for most of the day. The mass exodus after games isn't seen as much and fans float in and out a bit more liberally. Equally fans of all teams would have something on both days, which is a failing in the current system and is almost certainly a contributing factor to why Sunday gets a lower attendance (along with the Monday after). 

Another trophy which rewards more attack focused teams could be a bit of a boon too to spread the positivity. 

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

I think we need to be very careful about change. The venue is central to an event like this working. That can be seen by the Summer Bash's decline since leaving Blackpool. Newcastle's location is perfect for the event and Cardiff also worked well (Edinburgh, Manchester and Liverpool, less so).

There's lots of talk about 9's competitions but let's think about that. There has been almost no 9's competition in the UK so we have no idea of the appetite for it. Realistically, teams will leave out their best players so they play avoid injury and are available in Super League.

We will have no idea whether any given team would play on day 1, day 2 or both. Once your team is out fans of that club would leave, meaning the final would be played in front of a near empty stadium at the end of day 2. It sounds like a nice idea but in practice, I struggle to see how it gets off the ground.

Currently, we get 60,000+ in attendance over two days, more than an average Super League round and all matches shown on TV. Unlike the Grand Final and Cup Final, crowds are not declining. It's unrealistic to suggest the the Challenge Cup would get a sudden boost and more neutrals would suddenly attend the cup final if Magic Weekend was scrapped.

There's more we can do to make Magic better but throwing a successful event in the bin or going back to the drawing board and making fundamental changes strikes me as a terrible idea. 

I agree with the sentiment of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but we should also be open to ideas.

[yipyee]

If you want to keep fans in the stadium then it should be a seperate cup, league stage day 1, knock out stage day 2.

Obvs that means the teams would need to stay over so would increase costs.

I think the approach to selling tickets is very amateurish with no package tickets with partner hotels and travel companies.

Looking at the NFL London games ticket only options are sold last.

Also why are we discounting ST holders 50% off, surely the discounts should go to community clubs in the target area, so this year North East Community clubs 50% off group booked tickets etc..

For me I would take Magic to a smaller stadium and increase ticket prices, 80-160 price range. 30k seater max. 

 

[sam4731]

6 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

I think we need to be very careful about change. The venue is central to an event like this working. That can be seen by the Summer Bash's decline since leaving Blackpool. Newcastle's location is perfect for the event and Cardiff also worked well (Edinburgh, Manchester and Liverpool, less so).

There's lots of talk about 9's competitions but let's think about that. There has been almost no 9's competition in the UK so we have no idea of the appetite for it. Realistically, teams will leave out their best players so they play avoid injury and are available in Super League.

We will have no idea whether any given team would play on day 1, day 2 or both. Once your team is out fans of that club would leave, meaning the final would be played in front of a near empty stadium at the end of day 2. It sounds like a nice idea but in practice, I struggle to see how it gets off the ground.

Currently, we get 60,000+ in attendance over two days, more than an average Super League round and all matches shown on TV. Unlike the Grand Final and Cup Final, crowds are not declining. It's unrealistic to suggest the the Challenge Cup would get a sudden boost and more neutrals would suddenly attend the cup final if Magic Weekend was scrapped.

There's more we can do to make Magic better but throwing a successful event in the bin or going back to the drawing board and making fundamental changes strikes me as a terrible idea. 

Limiting this sort of event to 1 or 2 venues is counterintuitive. If we want to use it to expand the game to new markets and not expand it to new markets its a pointless non starter. Summer Bash is a bad example, there just isn't much interest in the championship which is declining anyway.

We don't know what the appetite is for 9s because there is no competition, thus would be the way of discovering what the appetite is.

It would work as 2 groups of 6 with each group being over a day with a standalone final at the end of day 2.

The whole point of attendances being above average and tv audiences being above average is exactly the problem. Its too safe, we're not striving to make a big splash to really drive people to the 13 person game.

 

[EggFace]

1 hour ago, sam4731 said:

Personally I would rather see Magic become a 9s competition. I know its a controversial opinion but we could take the game to new markets whilst also providing a more digestible form of the game. I'd also place a greater effort to get this on FTA and make it a real festival vibe. An event like this could really become iconic if it was given to right person to market dare I say... Eddie Hearn ducks for cover

And included the Championship teams and League 1.

[LeytherRob]

It was my first time attending Magic this year(Sunday only) and our group came away in agreement we'd do the full weekend next year so I'd be disappointed to see it scrapped - I think a 9's tournament could work but i would hope they stick with St James Park. I've done a few RL related events at Football stadia(Anfield, Old Trafford, Bolton) and St James Park has been by far the most comfortable in terms of leg room, amenities and car parking etc.

It would be about par for the course with RL to scrap an event after one of it's biggest attendances for a few years though.

[Damien]

36 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Did the fan feedback say scrap magic? I can't recall that atm is all.

IMG made recommendations on the back of the fan survey. One of them was to scrap Magic. As far as I can tell the vast majority on social media are against Magic. That is enough circumstantial evidence for me to show that the fan survey results around Magic were not positive. Attendances are stagnant, and have been for 17 years, and no better than a normal round.

You can draw your own conclusions from that, if yours are different that's fine but for me it is quite obvious that Magic is no where as near as popular as you would like it to be. And evidently not as popular as IMG, RFL Commercial and chairmen like Ian Lenegan, who has said it is a waste of time, would like it to be either.

Edited June 6 by Damien

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

IMG made recommendations on the back of the fan survey. One of them was to scrap Magic. As far as I can tell the vast majority on social media are against Magic. Attendances are stagnant, and have been for 17 years, and no better than a normal round. Draw your own conclusions from that, if yours are different that's fine but for me it is quite obvious that Magic is no where as near as popular as you would like it to be. And evidently not as popular as IMG, RFL Commercial and chairmen like Ian Lenegan, who has said it is a waste of time, would like it to be either.

I'm not doubting any of that, I'm merely questioning whether that view came out of the fan survey specifically. 

I had a rather long google and the best I could find to suggest such was a quote from Dwyer from IMG saying:

“There’s some evidence and a perception that we’re potentially cannibalising ourselves with our events.

“Our focus is to revive the Challenge Cup. As a concept, we’re not negative to Magic Weekend. It’s something we’d like to see how we can work in going forward.

“But it’s not part of the short to medium term. We need to bring a degree of scarcity to our key match ups.”

To me, that just covers the rest of the views you list, rather than as a direct outcome of the fan survey they conducted?

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

14 hours ago, Chilli Sauce said:

For the avoidance of doubt… not classy establishments to watch rabbits be extracted from hats.

On my return from Newcastle this weekend I’ve been trying to think of venues that could host late summer Magic (if the rumours swirling are true)… on the proviso that precious Premiership round ball carpets are off the table during their season.

There actually aren’t that many in the U.K. & Ireland … club rugby (either code are all too small) are off the table. Only ones I can think are Hampden, Cardiff, national stadia in London and Dublin? Tottenham have their fancy two pitch set up for the NFL too.

Of course we know that the game doesn’t do damage to surfaces in the way other sports do… but I’m not sure that’d wash.

Any ideas?

First post here too… I’m not looking for trouble, just a lurker that felt the need to finally chip in.

Milton Keynes...a superb stadium and has hotel rooms as part of the complex.....next to loads of restaurants ....not.many bars though only a short ride to the decent nightlife of the city 

It will never happen but i would be ecstatic if it did!!

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

7 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Welcome, Chili Sauce. 

I don’t think it’s at all clear whether Magic Weekend will continue in its current form.

We know IMG is looking at a new event and the tea leaves suggest it may be a new competition with silverware.

We also know Magic/Magic Mark II will be moved to late summer, say August Bank Holiday weekend, due to the 2024 Challenge Cup Final being played in late May/early June.

This would open it up to football grounds, including the Etihad where the RFL is based…..

New silverware??

Can only be a weekend nines tournament? 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

31 minutes ago, Damien said:

IMG made recommendations on the back of the fan survey. One of them was to scrap Magic. As far as I can tell the vast majority on social media are against Magic. That is enough circumstantial evidence for me to show that the fan survey results around Magic were not positive. Attendances are stagnant, and have been for 17 years, and no better than a normal round.

You can draw your own conclusions from that, if yours are different that's fine but for me it is quite obvious that Magic is no where as near as popular as you would like it to be. And evidently not as popular as IMG, RFL Commercial and chairmen like Ian Lenegan, who has said it is a waste of time, would like it to be either.

People have been raving about how great this year's Magic was Damien.....not sure where your source of negativity is coming from !

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

People have been raving about how great this year's Magic was Damien.....not sure where your source of negativity is coming from !

That's just a narrative like any other, largely by people that like Magic. Some great matches sure, that part usually delivers, and great weather which is always good for fans and attendances. As an actual event attendances were in the same range as always and there was nothing fundamentally different or better than what has happened for 17 years. IMG made recommendations, it is the tail wagging the dog stuff if they change because some clubs want a big day out.