August Magic Venues

[Jughead]

2 hours ago, sam4731 said:

Personally I would rather see Magic become a 9s competition. I know it’s a controversial opinion but we could take the game to new markets whilst also providing a more digestible form of the game. I'd also place a greater effort to get this on FTA and make it a real festival vibe. An event like this could really become iconic if it was given to right person to market dare I say... Eddie Hearn ducks for cover

Unless you’re going to offer up a massive cash prize for the clubs, I think you wouldn’t have seen Tommy Makinson score four tries at the weekend and he’d have had his feet up ahead of a game against Wigan next week and I suspect that would have been the case for many clubs involved. 

1 hour ago, Chris22 said:

I think we need to be very careful about change. The venue is central to an event like this working. That can be seen by the Summer Bash's decline since leaving Blackpool. Newcastle's location is perfect for the event and Cardiff also worked well (Edinburgh, Manchester and Liverpool, less so).

There's lots of talk about 9's competitions but let's think about that. There has been almost no 9's competition in the UK so we have no idea of the appetite for it. Realistically, teams will leave out their best players so they avoid injury and are available in Super League.

We will have no idea whether any given team would play on day 1, day 2 or both. Once your team is out fans of that club would leave, meaning the final would be played in front of a near empty stadium at the end of day 2. It sounds like a nice idea but in practice, I struggle to see how it gets off the ground.

Currently, we get 60,000+ in attendance over two days, more than an average Super League round and all matches shown on TV. Unlike the Grand Final and Cup Final, crowds are not declining. It's unrealistic to suggest the the Challenge Cup would get a sudden boost and more neutrals would suddenly attend the cup final if Magic Weekend was scrapped.

There's more we can do to make Magic better but throwing a successful event in the bin or going back to the drawing board and making fundamental changes strikes me as a terrible idea. 

This. I think there’s clear issues with Magic but throwing it away when the attendance is relatively stable at Newcastle is a poor move.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

That's just a narrative like any other, largely by people that like Magic. Some great matches sure, that part usually delivers, and great weather which is always good for fans and attendances. As an actual event attendances were in the same range as always and there was nothing fundamentally different or better than what has happened for 17 years. IMG made recommendations, it is the tail wagging the dog stuff if they change because some clubs want a big day out. 

I still don't understand 

Everyone is saying how great it was either on telly or in person 

Everyone is saying they hope.it doesn't get scrapped 

The fact it's been going 17 years is irrelevant .....it's had a particularly great attendance in challenging financial times with no trains 

Most people think it's brilliant mate and most people want to keep it 

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I still don't understand 

Everyone is saying how great it was either on telly or in person 

Everyone is saying they hope.it doesn't get scrapped 

The fact it's been going 17 years is irrelevant .....it's had a particularly great attendance in challenging financial times with no trains 

Most people think it's brilliant mate and most people want to keep it 

Everyone certainly isn't saying that and no facts back any of this up. You are just completely making stuff up.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Damien

[RP London]

I love Magic and go for both days pretty much every year with a group of mates.. the one thing we said as a group this year was to bring back Derbies other thank that leave it as is on the pitch... stuff outside the ground wasn't as good as normal but loved the LDRL at half times etc. 

If it went to 9s I'd still go the first year but would take some convincing its the way to go as I didn't enjoy the 7s when i went to that at Twickenham and no not because it was Union.. just don't like the shortened formats.

[JohnM]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

Everyone certainly isn't saying that and no facts back any of this up. You are just completely making stuff up.

He's speaking about the silent majority, the many thousands who bought the tickets rather than the few on here who discuss the issue.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, JohnM said:

He's speaking about the silent majority, the many thousands who bought the tickets rather than the few on here who discuss the issue.

He isn't, he said everyone. I mean that is quite a clear statement.

Have you a link to say the 'silent majority' are in favour? If what you claim is the case then why would IMG be recommending it be scrapped? Or did this 'silent majority' not fill in the fan survey either and put their views across.

Look if Magic had been a resounding success for 17 years then this wouldn't even be up for debate and IMG wouldn't have recommended it be scrapped. Rhodri Jones wouldn't be interviewed saying that Magic doesn't make enough money and wouldn't be saying that IMG/RL Commercial think that they can do something better. If attendances were larger and it was a huge commercial success then this wouldn't even be a debate.

The fact is Magic is still gets questioned because it is none of these things. Yes it provides a great day out, particularly when the weather is great and some love it because it is a 1 or 2 day boozeathon. And yes it very often produces some outstanding Rugby League games, which we get at other times anyway. However it is only right that its value and place in the calendar is questioned if the sport can do things better. That is the whole point of IMG being brought on board with a 12 year strategic plan.

[Chilli Sauce]

I think as well the Magic Weekend offers something different, hence why some dislike but for others it offers something of value.

if folk are just of a follow their club home and away persuasion I can understand how it can be seen as unneeded hassle. But for others it’s a big weekend that they really look forward to that is a festival of the sport and a real RL binge.

I can’t see how an enhanced Challenge Cup or 9s  will have the same draw for the latter group… but would be overjoyed to be proven wrong.
 

Have been to the CC semi double headers in places like Bolton and it simply doesn’t have the same appeal or vibe to it. That seems to be more a go to game, go home type event, rather than the festival atmosphere of a full weekender.

[Man of Kent]

It wouldn't be impossible to hold a Super League one-day tournament (9s or reduced-time 13s).

For example, 20 min. games, three rounds of seeded pool games (four in each pool, six games per round), taking three hours per round. 11am start. Each game starts on the hour or at half-past.

Pool completes at around 7.50pm. Semi-finals (4x pool winners) at 8pm. Final at 9pm to decide the 'Super League One-Day Champions'. 

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

It wouldn't be impossible to hold a Super League one-day tournament (9s or reduced-time 13s).

For example, 20 min. games, three rounds of seeded pool games (four in each pool, six games per round), taking three hours per round. 11am start. Each game starts on the hour or at half-past.

Pool completes at around 7.50pm. Semi-finals (4x pool winners) at 8pm. Final at 9pm to decide the 'Super League One-Day Champions'. 

why 1 day? surely the idea is its a weekend... start at 2pm and push that over 2 days.. 

[Man of Kent]

6 minutes ago, RP London said:

why 1 day? surely the idea is its a weekend... start at 2pm and push that over 2 days.. 

Why one day? To be an unmissable orgy of rugby league for all fans of Super League, with no half-empty stadium!

[RP London]

17 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Why one day? To be an unmissable orgy of rugby league for all fans of Super League, with no half-empty stadium!

I'd say all that in 1 day would be too much. Plus it loses the weekend away feel that IMHO makes Magic something that cities may want to host and makes it something a bit different. 

[Chris Taylor]

Can it off and the neutrals will go to the Challenge Cup Final instead.

[Man of Kent]

12 minutes ago, RP London said:

I'd say all that in 1 day would be too much. Plus it loses the weekend away feel that IMHO makes Magic something that cities may want to host and makes it something a bit different. 

I hear that, although nobody is stopping people staying on the night/previous night of the tournament. 

I'm generally supportive of a short-form tournament with a climactic final. Done well, it could be awesome. 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Man of Kent

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I hear that, although nobody is stopping people staying on the night/previous night of the tournament. 

I'm generally supportive of a short-form tournament with a climatic final. Done well, it could be awesome. 

but you could say that about any match (the stay over the night before or after etc).. IMHO its the 2 days of Rugby bit that makes it a unique occasion and is the bit to be kept.. 

[Chilli Sauce]

4 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

Can it off and the neutrals will go to the Challenge Cup Final instead.

Thing is, I’m not sure they will (on the proviso it’s the single game in London). I think neutrals or non heartlands RL fans may be more likely to just try to stay over somewhere where they can weekend it in northern England to see a game Friday and Saturday.

As I mentioned, I went to magic this year even though my own club had a home game that conflicted with it, because it was a massive draw for family, who live in RL wilderness. We wouldn’t have bothered for the hassle and faff of going to Wembley for one match, in what is now our second tier competition.

For clarity, I love the prestige and history of the Cup, but it isn’t anything other than second fiddle to Superleague by some distance.

That’s the draw of Magic Weekend… it’s an occasion and something unique, it’s value in giving multiple games in a short time in one place really hooks people, potentially newcomers to the sport.

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

but you could say that about any match (the stay over the night before or after etc).. IMHO its the 2 days of Rugby bit that makes it a unique occasion and is the bit to be kept.. 

Is the two-day bit unique or it is the festival vibe with large tribes of Super League clubs' fans gathering in one stadium unique? 

[Derwent]

Premier League usually kicks off the second weekend of August. I can’t see any of the PL teams allowing their pitch to be used for Magic during the season. So if it’s moved to August it rules out all of the best football stadiums.

[yipyee]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

Unless you’re going to offer up a massive cash prize for the clubs, I think you wouldn’t have seen Tommy Makinson score four tries at the weekend and he’d have had his feet up ahead of a game against Wigan next week and I suspect that would have been the case for many clubs involved. 

This. I think there’s clear issues with Magic but throwing it away when the attendance is relatively stable at Newcastle is a poor move.

Massive cash prize is easily sorted, new competition,  new sponsorship, seperate TV deal,  winner takes all half a mil,

80-160k ticket prices, small venue, 25-30k tickets averaging 100 is 2.5 -3 mil in gate receipts alone 

[yipyee]

Just now, Derwent said:

Premier League usually kicks off the second weekend of August. I can’t see any of the PL teams allowing their pitch to be used for Magic during the season. So if it’s moved to August it rules out all of the best football stadiums.

PNE ?

[Chilli Sauce]

6 minutes ago, Derwent said:

Premier League usually kicks off the second weekend of August. I can’t see any of the PL teams allowing their pitch to be used for Magic during the season. So if it’s moved to August it rules out all of the best football stadiums.

Yep, this is the problem I can see. Infrequently used national stadia seem to be the only fallback? Think someone mentioned the Eithad earlier in this thread as a possibility? But if their surface is seen as at risk (with Champions League football permanently on the agenda there) I don’t know how keen they’d be. I can’t get around the absolute meltdowns that football clubs have about a real or imagined divot being created in their bowling greens.

Aside from weather, isn’t that why all stadium gigs seem to be this time of year?

Look how sound the surface still was at the end of Sunday, it’s no an issue, but that doesn’t stop people seeing it as a problem.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Chilli Sauce

[RP London]

8 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Is the two-day bit unique or it is the festival vibe with large tribes of Super League clubs' fans gathering in one stadium unique? 

fair point.. both i'd say.. though you get a mix at the challenge cup and grandfinal just not in as much of a mix or relaxed atmosphere. 

1 day just seems like something that would drag towards the end where as spread over the weekend seems something that an area/city would want to have around more. 

[gingerjon]

11 minutes ago, Derwent said:

Premier League usually kicks off the second weekend of August. I can’t see any of the PL teams allowing their pitch to be used for Magic during the season. So if it’s moved to August it rules out all of the best football stadiums.

Pretty much what the Rhodri guy says. Moving the date of the Challenge Cup Final means you need to move Magic but the limited window when you can guarantee stadium availability may not fit with the new calendar. Therefore, given that it doesn't make (any/enough?) money, it may just go because logistics say it can't be held.

[GUBRATS]

31 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

Can it off and the neutrals will go to the Challenge Cup Final instead.

A few will , but most won't 

[GUBRATS]

16 minutes ago, Chilli Sauce said:

Yep, this is the problem I can see. Infrequently used national stadia seem to be the only fallback? Think someone mentioned the Eithad earlier in this thread as a possibility? But if their surface is seen as at risk (with Champions League football permanently on the agenda there) I don’t know how keen they’d be. I can’t get around the absolute meltdowns that football clubs have about a real or imagined divot being created in their bowling greens.

Aside from weather, isn’t that why all stadium gigs seem to be this time of year?

Look how sound the surface still was at the end of Sunday, it’s no an issue, but that doesn’t stop people seeing it as a problem.

It didn't rain 

[David Shepherd]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Everyone certainly isn't saying that and no facts back any of this up. You are just completely making stuff up.

You cited social media as your source for the negativity.

The people that comment on social media are not representative of wider society.  Very unwise to only use one source (and one that is inherently negative by nature - 95% of social media posts I read are moans, whines or negative for the sake of being negative).