9s tournament

[OnStrike]

I was listening to the FortyTwenty podcast today and they were talking about a 9s tournament to replace Magic Weekend. 

I have to say, it sounded like the worst idea I've ever heard. Mad suggestions of a try being worth 6 points for a certain player on either team and other similar nonsense. It was actually annoying me listening to it and I usually enjoy their podcast. Whatever it was they were describing, it wasn't rugby league.

I hope I'm not the only one thinking that something like that would be a complete joke. Fans know when something is Mickey Mouse and this most certainly would be Mickey Mouse.

If Magic Weekend is to go, I'm not sure what should replace it but in the name of God, don't let it be a joke of a 9s tournament as set out in the FortyTwenty podcast!

[The storm]

5 hours ago, OnStrike said:

I was listening to the FortyTwenty podcast today and they were talking about a 9s tournament to replace Magic Weekend. 

I have to say, it sounded like the worst idea I've ever heard. Mad suggestions of a try being worth 6 points for a certain player on either team and other similar nonsense. It was actually annoying me listening to it and I usually enjoy their podcast. Whatever it was they were describing, it wasn't rugby league.

I hope I'm not the only one thinking that something like that would be a complete joke. Fans know when something is Mickey Mouse and this most certainly would be Mickey Mouse.

If Magic Weekend is to go, I'm not sure what should replace it but in the name of God, don't let it be a joke of a 9s tournament as set out in the FortyTwenty podcast!

Totally insane

[OnStrike]

3 hours ago, The storm said:

Totally insane

It was absolute madness

[Damien]

I'm fairly ambivalent about 9s and I'm not sure if it has a role or not in terms of SL. The NRL's love affair with it was very short loved. I think for 9s to have any place it has to be have serious, credible games and I am sure that gimmicks, like those outlined, will do nothing but see it fail.

The Magic vibe does seem to fit the 9s concept but as I said on another thread it will take serious money as a prize together to get buy in from clubs.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Damien

[OnStrike]

20 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'm fairly ambivalent about 9s and I'm not sure if it has a role or not in terms of SL. The NRL's love affair with it was very short loved. I think for 9s to have any place it has to be have serious, credible games and I am sure that gimmicks, like those outlined, will do nothing but see it fail.

The Magic vibe does seem to fit the 9s concept but as I said on another thread it will take serious money as a prize together to get buy in from clubs.

18 minute games, bands between games, races between players between games. Twelve SL teams plus four teams whuch could include a League 1 select team, an Army team or Jamaica (or other international teams). A try between the posts is 5 points, a designated player who plays a in different colour shirt had his tries worth 6 points, power plays after tries etc. Apparently we just have to 'market' it properly and it would work. The Hearns could run it.

The whole thing screams gimmick as you say. Not sure if it could be done in a meaningful way, but if if wasn't anything like above, it would be embarrassing.

[gingerjon]

Based on the last, definitive, international calendar, we're due a World Cup 9s this autumn.

[C Hemmins]

This is just an observation but looking at cricket the shorter format of the game has been very positive getting bums on seats 

[Griff]

4 minutes ago, C Hemmins said:

This is just an observation but looking at cricket the shorter format of the game has been very positive getting bums on seats 

Their short form is still longer than our long form.

[Griff]

28 minutes ago, OnStrike said:

18 minute games, bands between games, races between players between games. Twelve SL teams plus four teams whuch could include a League 1 select team, an Army team or Jamaica (or other international teams). A try between the posts is 5 points, a designated player who plays a in different colour shirt had his tries worth 6 points, power plays after tries etc. Apparently we just have to 'market' it properly and it would work. The Hearns could run it.

The whole thing screams gimmick as you say. Not sure if it could be done in a meaningful way, but if if wasn't anything like above, it would be embarrassing.

IMG will have all this covered.

[OnStrike]

4 minutes ago, C Hemmins said:

This is just an observation but looking at cricket the shorter format of the game has been very positive getting bums on seats 

Yeah fair point, I wouldn't be the target audience for this kind of stuff so maybe some oeople would love it.

My feeling is though, that fans and players know when something is a serious competition and when it's a gimmick. 

[GUBRATS]

11 minutes ago, C Hemmins said:

This is just an observation but looking at cricket the shorter format of the game has been very positive getting bums on seats 

And even then they've had to bring in gimmick rules , just shows how bloody boring it was for a full century 

[RP London]

the shorter format seems to have been relatively popular in Cricket, which is really quite a long game, and Rugby Union which has issues around its attacking mentality and the fact when it gets turgid it gets very turgid. Other than those I am not sure how many of the "short form" games have really taken off in any way. RL doesn't have these issues, it really isnt a long game (and the shortened format ends up lasting longer because its a "festival") and its not, in the majority, a dull game to watch. 

I'm not sure the problem that 9s is trying to solve, which is why I don't overly like it nor do I see it having a place that isnt shoe horned in.

Edited June 7, 2023 by RP London

[Damien]

30 minutes ago, RP London said:

the shorter format seems to have been relatively popular in Cricket, which is really quite a long game, and Rugby Union which has issues around its attacking mentality and the fact when it gets turgid it gets very turgid. Other than those I am not sure how many of the "short form" games have really taken off in any way. RL doesn't have these issues, it really isnt a long game (and the shortened format ends up lasting longer because its a "festival") and its not, in the majority, a dull game to watch. 

I'm not sure the problem that 9s is trying to solve, which is why I don't overly like it nor do I see it having a place that isnt shoe horned in.

This is really along the same lines as I think. When people bring up nines I always think what is the end goal here. Is it to attract a new audience? Is it to make money? Is it to provide an easier way to play the game? etc. A mid week nines at Headingley does nothing. I can see how it could, and I am placing a lot of weight on that word, work as a substitute for Magic (instead of scraping it) in keeping an event at a big stadium with that festival feel for those that like a 1 or 2 day weekend and/or booze up away. If it works, gets good coverage and makes money then it may be worth doing (depending on everything else that is up in the air with IMG).

Again though what is the end game. Other than a one off at Magic though I really struggle to see a place for it in the calendar, other than in developing areas and countries that may struggle for numbers. One off events do nothing really, it works in Cricket and RU because they have gone all in and created events, competitions and dedicated circuits. That is never going to happen in RL and all we get is piecemeal efforts here and there which inevitably fail.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Damien

[gingerjon]

22 minutes ago, Damien said:

This is really along the same lines as I think. When people bring up nines I always think what is the end goal here. Is it to attract a new audience? Is it to make money? Is it to provide an easier way to play the game? etc. A mid week nines at Headingley does nothing. I can see how it could, and I am placing a lot of weight on that word, work as a substitute for Magic (instead of scraping it) in keeping an event at a big stadium with that festival feel for those that like a 1 or 2 day weekend and/or booze up away. If it works, gets good coverage and makes money then it may be worth doing (depending on everything else that is up in the air with IMG).

Again though what is the end game. Other than a one off at Magic though I really struggle to see a place for it in the calendar, other than in developing areas and countries that may struggle for numbers. One off events do nothing really, it works in Cricket and RU because they have gone all in and created events, competitions and dedicated circuits. That is never going to happen in RL and all we get is piecemeal efforts here and there which inevitably fail.

Cricket is interesting because it has a far greater failure rate in franchise cricket than you might think (which is often the shortest forms) *and* right now is putting things like World Test Championship and World Cup Qualifiers into bilateral series to give them meaning beyond being one off.

I’d also note that away from the Olympics (which I know is a big deal) that RU 7s has essentially stopped being any kind of relevance. The global tour seems to be stagnating and the grounds seem to be empty on the clips I see.

[Damien]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Cricket is interesting because it has a far greater failure rate in franchise cricket than you might think (which is often the shortest forms) *and* right now is putting things like World Test Championship and World Cup Qualifiers into bilateral series to give them meaning beyond being one off.

I’d also note that away from the Olympics (which I know is a big deal) that RU 7s has essentially stopped being any kind of relevance. The global tour seems to be stagnating and the grounds seem to be empty on the clips I see.

Good points. When I see the 7s circuit games they always seem empty too but I guess they must pay for it in sponsors. Even if its treading water its probably worth it anyway for the funding countries can get because of the Olympics angle.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

I'd rather pour raw Scotch Bonnet juice into my eyes while my nuts are constantly jolted by electrodes than watch that. 

[JM2010]

3 hours ago, C Hemmins said:

This is just an observation but looking at cricket the shorter format of the game has been very positive getting bums on seats 

Nothing wrong with 9s as long as it’s not as described above. If it is same rules as 13 a side but with less players and 9 mins per half then I think it would work 

[fighting irish]

35 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I'd rather pour raw Scotch Bonnet juice into my eyes while my nuts are constantly jolted by electrodes than watch that. 

That costs a lot of money up in London. 

[Mumby Magic]

To me it should be a celebration of the game. Every club side represented. Army, Navy etc too. Have sprint challenge, Ladies final, Conference finals. 

[fighting irish]

1 minute ago, Mumby Magic said:

To me it should be a celebration of the game. Every club side represented. Army, Navy etc too. Have sprint challenge, Ladies final, Conference finals. 

Hear hear!

[whatmichaelsays]

I think Nines could have a place but the caveat I'd put on that is the same as what I put on Magic Weekend, which is "what are we trying to achieve with it?". 

Magic is a great concept and a great opportunity, but it does feel like SL just packages, promotes and sells it to the same people that buy the other 26 rounds of the season, only with a bit more beer with the added hassle of a train journey to Newcastle. If there is a strategy to use the event as a way to engage new audiences and to sell SL/RL in a different way, it either isn't working or doesn't seem particularly obvious. I think this also why the Bash was such a bust in the past two years - it's the same product we always sell and, once you take out the "day at the seaside" element by moving from Blackpool, what else are you selling that you couldn't have sold with these fixtures as regular home games in Widnes, Featherstone, Keighley and Halifax? 

The same principle applies with Nines. I can get on board with the idea of it - RL for people who don't necessarily want the "full fat" version and in this era of digital content, I can see how Nines could really help to create those viral "Instagrammable" moments that help the sport increase its reach. But if we are still just going to try and sell it to the same people we try and sell Magic to, why are we actually doing it? 

[JM2010]

18 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I think Nines could have a place but the caveat I'd put on that is the same as what I put on Magic Weekend, which is "what are we trying to achieve with it?". 

Magic is a great concept and a great opportunity, but it does feel like SL just packages, promotes and sells it to the same people that buy the other 26 rounds of the season, only with a bit more beer with the added hassle of a train journey to Newcastle. If there is a strategy to use the event as a way to engage new audiences and to sell SL/RL in a different way, it either isn't working or doesn't seem particularly obvious. I think this also why the Bash was such a bust in the past two years - it's the same product we always sell and, once you take out the "day at the seaside" element by moving from Blackpool, what else are you selling that you couldn't have sold with these fixtures as regular home games in Widnes, Featherstone, Keighley and Halifax? 

The same principle applies with Nines. I can get on board with the idea of it - RL for people who don't necessarily want the "full fat" version and in this era of digital content, I can see how Nines could really help to create those viral "Instagrammable" moments that help the sport increase its reach. But if we are still just going to try and sell it to the same people we try and sell Magic to, why are we actually doing it? 

I think it will attract regular supporters but I think it should be marketed at younger non regular fans also. Could be successful if marketed properly. 

[Tommygilf]

I think we often think about 9s incorrectly.

It isn't a short form, its a full day version of an RL event. 1 9s game is obviously shorter, but nobody ever plays 1 nines game exclusively.

A 9s festival would be a way to get a full day, or two day, event into RL, where fans from all clubs have their teams playing for the majority of the time.

At Magic Weekend currently if your team plays first on saturday is over for you and your direct interest by 4ish on saturday. That isn't the case in a 9s festival.

So no 9s isn't trying to make the game shorter, its trying to make RL suitable for an all day event.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, JM2010 said:

I think it will attract regular supporters but I think it should be marketed at younger non regular fans also. Could be successful if marketed properly. 

I think it attracts a decent amount of non regulars tbh. Considering it as a big away day, I would suspect for a significant number that is one of the only away from home games they go to, indeed perhaps for some amongst the only games they go to at all.

The digital engagement seems to be poor with Magic, as is the case for RL in general. Sell it and improve it.

[JM2010]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think we often think about 9s incorrectly.

It isn't a short form, its a full day version of an RL event. 1 9s game is obviously shorter, but nobody ever plays 1 nines game exclusively.

A 9s festival would be a way to get a full day, or two day, event into RL, where fans from all clubs have their teams playing for the majority of the time.

At Magic Weekend currently if your team plays first on saturday is over for you and your direct interest by 4ish on saturday. That isn't the case in a 9s festival.

So no 9s isn't trying to make the game shorter, its trying to make RL suitable for an all day event.

Thats a good point. Fans could be engaged for longer as their club’s games would be spread out over the day/weekend