How can international rugby league recover its credibility after the humiliating cancellation of the 2025 World Cup in France?

[Jughead]

4 hours ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

It's not just internationals, I take quite a few people to the challenge cup final every year, including many who don't have rugby league as their first sport. I can never tell them when next year's game is

That’s not unusual though. In the very immediate aftermath of major events, how often do we know when the next NFL London game is or the next FA Cup Final is? 

 

[Dave T]

37 minutes ago, Jughead said:

That’s not unusual though. In the very immediate aftermath of major events, how often do we know when the next NFL London game is or the next FA Cup Final is? 

 

I agree with this. Whilst we do sometimes use this as an example of something to bash the RFL over, I'm not convinced the number of people buying tickets as soon as they return from an event is that high. 

As long as there is a decent lead time (which there isn't always to be fair) then it's fine. 

[eal]

Most of us know what is needed for the international game to have credibility, unfortunately the decision-makers don't really care. People talking about RL surpassing RU in the Pacific or anywhere else are kidding themselves as long as the game remains in its current state. For all the enthusiasm around Tonga, Samoa, etc they rarely play and never at home. In RU these teams have games and tournaments scheduled years in advance.

[Jughead]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree with this. Whilst we do sometimes use this as an example of something to bash the RFL over, I'm not convinced the number of people buying tickets as soon as they return from an event is that high. 

As long as there is a decent lead time (which there isn't always to be fair) then it's fine. 

I understand not knowing when England will play next and it being months, that’s fine to moan about. 

We also had quite a decent period of years where the Cup Final was every August Bank Holiday and you didn’t need to guess when the Bank Holiday was the following year. You can also make pretty decent educated guesses at when the Grand Final is based off of International Football. 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree with this. Whilst we do sometimes use this as an example of something to bash the RFL over, I'm not convinced the number of people buying tickets as soon as they return from an event is that high. 

As long as there is a decent lead time (which there isn't always to be fair) then it's fine. 

I think there is a caveat with this though in that people normally talk about this regarding events and internationals in London and outside the heartlands, when RL doesn't engage with that audience again until the next year. I don't think people generally talk about it the same with things like the Grand Final.

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

55 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree with this. Whilst we do sometimes use this as an example of something to bash the RFL over, I'm not convinced the number of people buying tickets as soon as they return from an event is that high. 

As long as there is a decent lead time (which there isn't always to be fair) then it's fine. 

Its not just about buying tickets though is it. I am currently sorting things out for May and June next year, I wouldn't book them if I knew they were going to clash with the Challenge cup final. I also book Travelodges and Premier Inns on the day they open bookings so as to get the best price. This goes for Internationals too, I've been asked about going on holiday in October next year, if I knew there was an international I'd go on holiday in September

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

59 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

Its not just about buying tickets though is it. I am currently sorting things out for May and June next year, I wouldn't book them if I knew they were going to clash with the Challenge cup final. I also book Travelodges and Premier Inns on the day they open bookings so as to get the best price. This goes for Internationals too, I've been asked about going on holiday in October next year, if I knew there was an international I'd go on holiday in September

Not sure booking a year in advance us cheaper for premier....I've just tried it across a couple I use (earliest booking for July 2024 and isn't cheaper ?? 

It's one of the advantages of following league is that the Premier inns across the vast majority of the town's are really cheap generally and don't rely sell out.....only really York and Chester I have to be careful about booking well in advance 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Bedfordshire Bronco

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

2 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Not sure booking a year in advance us cheaper for premier....I've just tried it across a couple I use (earliest booking for July 2024 and isn't cheaper 

Don't tend to use Premier In in London, but I've had the cheaper rate plenty of  times in other places, most recently Glasgow when I got  the rooms for £60/night Friday & Saturday, over £100 closer to the date. I'd guess you are trying to book a date when the rooms have already started to go

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

Its not just about buying tickets though is it. I am currently sorting things out for May and June next year, I wouldn't book them if I knew they were going to clash with the Challenge cup final. I also book Travelodges and Premier Inns on the day they open bookings so as to get the best price. This goes for Internationals too, I've been asked about going on holiday in October next year, if I knew there was an international I'd go on holiday in September

I get it but tbh, that's just life. They are just decisions that individuals need to make. But I don't think it's a huge issue. 

[Anita Bath]

2 hours ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

Its not just about buying tickets though is it. I am currently sorting things out for May and June next year, I wouldn't book them if I knew they were going to clash with the Challenge cup final. I also book Travelodges and Premier Inns on the day they open bookings so as to get the best price. This goes for Internationals too, I've been asked about going on holiday in October next year, if I knew there was an international I'd go on holiday in September

May and June next year?……down under NRL have yet to announce where the grand final will be played….in 12 weeks time! Vlandys never gives up on trying to extract a few million more taxpayer dollars out of gullible state governments. 

[17 stone giant]

As someone who has fond memories of the 1990 and 1994 Ashes, part of me would love to have that back again. My worry is that Australia might be far superior nowadays and each game would be a blow out (especially Down Under). You guys on here will know better than me if that's the case or not. If it is, then I'm more inclined to go with a Four Nations, with the likes of Eng, Aus, NZ and one other (France etc.). That way you're giving the home crowd in England at least the chance of seeing some victories.

[Llangennech]

52 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

As someone who has fond memories of the 1990 and 1994 Ashes, part of me would love to have that back again. My worry is that Australia might be far superior nowadays and each game would be a blow out (especially Down Under). You guys on here will know better than me if that's the case or not. If it is, then I'm more inclined to go with a Four Nations, with the likes of Eng, Aus, NZ and one other (France etc.). That way you're giving the home crowd in England at least the chance of seeing some victories.

England would have a chance with their first team out. 

[RP London]

15 hours ago, Jughead said:

That’s not unusual though. In the very immediate aftermath of major events, how often do we know when the next NFL London game is or the next FA Cup Final is? 

 

Those are fair points. I suppose the bigger problem is that if you go to many sports internationals you know when the next one will be and who it will be against becuase they are relatively regular. Because we don't have this regularity (which would be good to have just the next in midseaon already arranged for example) and becuase we are looking at trying to keep momentum with a group of people that may lose contact with the game outside of internationals (especially initially in their "interest cycle") it is made starker that if they enjoy the experience they have no idea how or when to get their next hit. This is also a reason I think mid season internationals are so important rather than end of season, becuase you can then point them (at worst) to the telebox and super league. 

[Pulga]

11 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

As someone who has fond memories of the 1990 and 1994 Ashes, part of me would love to have that back again. My worry is that Australia might be far superior nowadays and each game would be a blow out (especially Down Under). You guys on here will know better than me if that's the case or not. If it is, then I'm more inclined to go with a Four Nations, with the likes of Eng, Aus, NZ and one other (France etc.). That way you're giving the home crowd in England at least the chance of seeing some victories.

Australia need to be left out if they want to mess around.

England, NZ, Tonga, Samoa for me.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Pulga

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Pulga said:

Australia need to be left out if they want to mess around.

England, NZ, Tonga, Samoa for me.

We've spent far too long "waiting" for Australia to decide what to do.. just get on without them. There are some great teams to play just get things organised with them.

[gingerjon]

19 hours ago, Dave T said:

I agree with this. Whilst we do sometimes use this as an example of something to bash the RFL over, I'm not convinced the number of people buying tickets as soon as they return from an event is that high. 

As long as there is a decent lead time (which there isn't always to be fair) then it's fine. 

You might not book it right then but having a 'see you next year' at an event is a positive to have. Especially when you may not have too many other hooks to market to people after that.

England women's cricket have put in place their fixture for next season already - based, it seems, on the fact that they are having their highest crowds ever in this country and want to get as many people to have it on their radar for next year.

[Dave T]

33 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You might not book it right then but having a 'see you next year' at an event is a positive to have. Especially when you may not have too many other hooks to market to people after that.

England women's cricket have put in place their fixture for next season already - based, it seems, on the fact that they are having their highest crowds ever in this country and want to get as many people to have it on their radar for next year.

Yes, I should have clarified really that my point was more around the big finals etc. 

I 100% agree that we should always know when England are next playing, even if dates and venues aren't locked down. I've always banged on about needing two international windows, one in June and one in November, so we always know there will be fixtures 

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Pulga said:

Australia need to be left out if they want to mess around.

England, NZ, Tonga, Samoa for me.

There is certainly a strong argument to circumvent Australia completely and for the other nations to go ahead and do their own thing. Get those players on board and behind it. Player power is the single biggest weapon the international game has in getting matches on and growing.

Do that and make it something worthwhile and you will soon see Australia's attitude to the international game change.

[Sports Prophet]

3 hours ago, Pulga said:

Australia need to be left out if they want to mess around.

England, NZ, Tonga, Samoa for me.

It’s a fair shout. But if the RLPA are challenging the NRL to equal pay for all international players, then I am sure they would want to hold the RFL equally accountable, otherwise it would be a double standard of the highest order. 

So with that in mind, do you think the RFL could at least break even by hosting and suitably remunerating three pacific nations over a 4-5 week period?

If not, a bid to lock down Samoa to tour England next year should be a high and urgent priority.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Sports Prophet

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

It’s a fair shout. But if the RLPA are challenging the NRL to equal pay for all international players, then I am sure they would want to hold the RFL equally accountable, otherwise it would be a double standard of the highest order. 

So with that in mind, do you think the RFL could at least break even by hosting and suitably remunerating three pacific nations over a 4-5 week period?

If not, a bid to lock down Samoa to tour England next year should be a high and urgent priority.

i liked the old tri and 4 nations and still feel frustrated is was canned but I wouldnt worry about starting another one up just yet. 3 test series against Tonga and then Samoa, world cup, New Zealand could tie in the next 4 years and then take the temperature again (probably around the world cup) for the aussies or PNG or 4/tri nation or just go back to Tonga again.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

It’s a fair shout. But if the RLPA are challenging the NRL to equal pay for all international players, then I am sure they would want to hold the RFL equally accountable, otherwise it would be a double standard of the highest order. 

So with that in mind, do you think the RFL could at least break even by hosting and suitably remunerating three pacific nations over a 4-5 week period?

If not, a bid to lock down Samoa to tour England next year should be a high and urgent priority.

I must admit, I don't really understand the set up of all this. I find it frankly bizarre that the NRL are involved in a conversation about what Tonga players should be paid. 

 

[south yorkshire]

a two year five nations involving Australia , England , New Zealand , Samoa and Tonga. England play two home games one year say Australia and Samoa . The year later go sown under to play New Zealand and Samoa . Top two team qualify for final. Bottom team goes into play off against second tier nation winner. 

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, Dave T said:

I must admit, I don't really understand the set up of all this. I find it frankly bizarre that the NRL are involved in a conversation about what Tonga players should be paid. 

 

It’s simple really, the RLPA have a revenue sharing model with the  NRL and for NRL organised international series, they want equal pay for all genders and players of all pacific nations competing.

[Barley Mow]

9 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

It’s simple really, the RLPA have a revenue sharing model with the  NRL and for NRL organised international series, they want equal pay for all genders and players of all pacific nations competing.

I think the follow up question then is, why are the NRL organising international matches?

The NRL is a competition for clubs. They aren't the national governing body for Australian RL, never mind for the other SH nations.

Surely that situation is akin to Super League organising NH internationals rather than the RFL and the other nations' governing bodies.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Barley Mow

[Barley Mow]

26 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

It’s simple really, the RLPA have a revenue sharing model with the  NRL and for NRL organised international series, they want equal pay for all genders and players of all pacific nations competing.

Just thinking on this some more, the implication is that if the SH national governing bodies were to arrange their own internationals (outside of the auspices of the NRL), then they wouldn't be bound by the provisions of the collective bargaining agreement.

I assume this is why Tonga were able to arrange to come to England later this year.

New Zealand could take a lead here and set something in motion. Indeed if the ARLC were sufficiently free of NRL influence themselves, they could choose that route.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Barley Mow