The decline of international RL

[Tex Evans Thigh]

Watching some old internationals and it really was the peak of our game. We had it in our hands, proper international games where the home commentators are so biased because it means so much. 
 

The damage has been done by NRL bosses and poor development by the game over here but I never realized how much the Australians thought they were being cheated as it was happening.

It’s shocking that we gave this away.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Tex Evans Thigh

[Pulga]

Blaming the NRL for any of it is a bit of a joke.

The international game has had poor leadership for as long as it's been around. The buck stops there.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

18 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Blaming the NRL for any of it is a bit of a joke.

The international game has had poor leadership for as long as it's been around. The buck stops there.

But the leadership of the international game comes from the NRL and the RFL - the IRL has no power over these organisations. We might as well blame my mother-in-law.

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

But the leadership of the international game comes from the NRL and the RFL - the IRL has no power over these organisations. We might as well blame my mother-in-law.

What exactly has she done to spread international RL. 

[sam4731]

22 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Blaming the NRL for any of it is a bit of a joke.

The international game has had poor leadership for as long as it's been around. The buck stops there.

Recognition is only derived from the support for that recognition. A £20 note is only worth £20 because both me and you accept that it is otherwise it's worth the value of the paper. The IRL will only have power because both the NRL and SL recognise that power, until such a point, it can only act as a meaningless figurehead.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

But the leadership of the international game comes from the NRL and the RFL - the IRL has no power over these organisations. We might as well blame my mother-in-law.

Exactly. For the vast majority of the games history there has either been no IRL or it has been a toothless governing body. When it comes to Australia, NZ and England the IRL certainly have no say, every statement from Grant and his predecessors confirms this.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

17 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

What exactly has she done to spread international RL. 

Don't get me started - she's stealing a wage...

[Ragingbull]

7 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Watching some old internationals and it really was the peak of our game. We had it in our hands, proper international games where the home commentators are so biased because it means so much. 
 

The damage has been done by NRL bosses and poor development by the game over here but I never realized how much the Australians thought they were being cheated as it was happening.

It’s shocking that we gave this away.

Dont think weve had a thread like this before, really glad you brought this up!

[sam4731]

1 minute ago, Ragingbull said:

Dont think weve had a thread like this before, really glad you brought this up!

Right that's it. No more threads on international rugby league. In fact we've had plenty on the domestic game as well, we can pack them in too. Players, coaches, referees, fans..threads on them too, banned from now on. 

[17 stone giant]

8 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Watching some old internationals and it really was the peak of our game.

I'm not sure about that, but I definitely agree that RL hasn't made the best out of the international game.

I don't know on what planet you allow The Ashes to disappear.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

4 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I don't know on what planet you allow The Ashes to disappear.

Agreed. I think it's insane. It'd be like golf ditching the Ryder Cup

[Havenlad80]

8 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Watching some old internationals and it really was the peak of our game. We had it in our hands, proper international games where the home commentators are so biased because it means so much. 
 

The damage has been done by NRL bosses and poor development by the game over here but I never realized how much the Australians thought they were being cheated as it was happening.

It’s shocking that we gave this away.

I like to watch the old tests between Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain from the late 80’s and early to mid 90’s on YouTube.

the loss of the ashes tours and lack of internationals played in New Zealand is criminally shocking.

[Whippet13]

It depends on what perspective we look at International RL.

In the UK we have lost the 4 nations and the bi-annual Ashes, both of which I absolutely loved. That's due to the multitude of reasons we all know about.

If you are from elsewhere it's more positive - Australia, Tonga, Samoa and NZ are powerful internationally and about to hold a very exciting looking pan-pacific tournament. Below tier 1 there are lots of internationals being played - back in the 90's I would never have dreamed that Czech Republic would play Serbia, as happened yesterday, or that Greece will play Ukraine, which is scheduled for in October.

As for the Ashes, well they are back in 2026, and I'm already excited about it. In the mean time we have a cracking looking series v Tonga this autumn which is a window of opportunity. Lets all buy tickets, go to the games and make them a big financial success - that will get the likes of Samoa here next year and start to build a brighter international future.  

[sam4731]

56 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

It depends on what perspective we look at International RL.

In the UK we have lost the 4 nations and the bi-annual Ashes, both of which I absolutely loved. That's due to the multitude of reasons we all know about.

If you are from elsewhere it's more positive - Australia, Tonga, Samoa and NZ are powerful internationally and about to hold a very exciting looking pan-pacific tournament. Below tier 1 there are lots of internationals being played - back in the 90's I would never have dreamed that Czech Republic would play Serbia, as happened yesterday, or that Greece will play Ukraine, which is scheduled for in October.

As for the Ashes, well they are back in 2026, and I'm already excited about it. In the mean time we have a cracking looking series v Tonga this autumn which is a window of opportunity. Lets all buy tickets, go to the games and make them a big financial success - that will get the likes of Samoa here next year and start to build a brighter international future.  

Peel back that layer of optimism though and you see the international landscape for what it really is. The SH nations are thriving because their are enough high quality NRL based players to populate the pacific nations that they qualify for. The internationals that are being played below tier 1 in Europe are for the most part stagnant, with no real outside support they are destined to just go round and round playing matches against each other with no real progress. And the reason that we are playing a 3 match series against Tonga is that no-one better wanted to play us. I mean it's arguably 4th vs 5th in terms on world standings. 

Sorry to be a negative nelly but I'm calling it like I see it.

[EggFace]

3 hours ago, Damien said:

Exactly. For the vast majority of the games history there has either been no IRL or it has been a toothless governing body. When it comes to Australia, NZ and England the IRL certainly have no say, every statement from Grant and his predecessors confirms this.

So why doe's the IRL exist ?

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, EggFace said:

So why doe's the IRL exist ?

To administer the game internationally. There's more to international RL than just those 3.

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, sam4731 said:

 And the reason that we are playing a 3 match series against Tonga is that no-one better wanted to play us. I mean it's arguably 4th vs 5th in terms on world standings. .

In sports that respect international competition a fixture between the 4th and 5th ranked teams would be a big draw. In amongst the recrimination towards NRL, would be a good idea to look at our own attitudes. 

Support for the Tonga series might be make or break for future tours to England from SH nations.

The Toa Samoa games this year could be huge events, particularly the one at Eden Park. They and the Tongans will want more pieces of that action. Why would Samoa and Tonga come here if English fans don't value them? Kiwis will probably feel the same. If we continue to want Australia or nothing, we'll likely get nothing.

[sam4731]

5 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

In sports that respect international competition a fixture between the 4th and 5th ranked teams would be a big draw. In amongst the recrimination towards NRL, would be a good idea to look at our own attitudes. 

Support for the Tonga series might be make or break for future tours to England from SH nations.

The Toa Samoa games this year could be huge events, particularly the one at Eden Park. They and the Tongans will want more pieces of that action. Why would Samoa and Tonga come here if English fans don't value them? Kiwis will probably feel the same. If we continue to want Australia or nothing, we'll likely get nothing.

Of course in most sports 4th vs 5th would be a big draw but most sports don't have 5 teams with a realistic chance of winning the world cup.

I agree that support for the Tonga series might help future tours but that help will get us back to the point we were at 5 years ago. That's how far we've fallen behind.

It's not Australia or nothing but it also shouldn't be 20+ years between Ashes series.

[N2022]

1 hour ago, sam4731 said:

Of course in most sports 4th vs 5th would be a big draw but most sports don't have 5 teams with a realistic chance of winning the world cup.

I agree that support for the Tonga series might help future tours but that help will get us back to the point we were at 5 years ago. That's how far we've fallen behind.

It's not Australia or nothing but it also shouldn't be 20+ years between Ashes series.

I wonder whether taking one of these Tonga games elsewhere - probably the Huddersfield one - might have been good exposure. Not sure where in the country I'd suggest but Huddersfield is within easy reach of Leeds and not that far from the West of the Pennines one either, so it hosting is not making the series geographically accessible to any more fans. It just feels like a missed opportunity.

[N2022]

6 minutes ago, N2022 said:

I wonder whether taking one of these Tonga games elsewhere - probably the Huddersfield one - might have been good exposure. Not sure where in the country I'd suggest but Huddersfield is within easy reach of Leeds and not that far from the West of the Pennines one either, so it hosting is not making the series geographically accessible to any more fans. It just feels like a missed opportunity.

And I wish these 3 games sellout success, but with £25 for standing terrace in November I am not sure there won't be spaces.

[langpark]

The comparison between Pacific ans European nations is not at all a fair one. 

1. The rugby codes are already by far and away the top sports of the Pacific islands. They all grow up playing it and are perfectly built for it too. 

2. Most these days are born in Aus, identified by scouts froma young age and going through the NRL systems their whole lives. 

Now compare that to say Czech Republic. Where now there are approx 200 registered RL players. None of them existed or knew even what the sport was 20 years ago. 

So in terms of progress and actual development, I would argue that a place like Czech is actually achieving more than say, Tonga. 

[Havenlad80]

1 minute ago, langpark said:

The comparison between Pacific ans European nations is not at all a fair one. 

1. The rugby codes are already by far and away the top sports of the Pacific islands. They all grow up playing it and are perfectly built for it too. 

2. Most these days are born in Aus, identified by scouts froma young age and going through the NRL systems their whole lives. 

Now compare that to say Czech Republic. Where now there are approx 200 registered RL players. None of them existed or knew even what the sport was 20 years ago. 

So in terms of progress and actual development, I would argue that a place like Czech is actually achieving more than say, Tonga. 

100% in agreement with this.

how much of an impact and footprint has RL actually got on the ground in Tonga and Samoa?

[gingerjon]

20 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Agreed. I think it's insane. It'd be like golf ditching the Ryder Cup

Golf did ditch the Ryder Cup.

Between 1927 and 1977, the USA played Great Britain (& Ireland, sometimes) for it. The USA won 18 of 22 contests, and one of the remaining four was a tie. The contest was dead.

What made the Ryder Cup an event was adding Europe to the competition and, the most important bit, Europe being competitive.

[sam4731]

1 hour ago, langpark said:

The comparison between Pacific ans European nations is not at all a fair one. 

1. The rugby codes are already by far and away the top sports of the Pacific islands. They all grow up playing it and are perfectly built for it too. 

2. Most these days are born in Aus, identified by scouts froma young age and going through the NRL systems their whole lives. 

Now compare that to say Czech Republic. Where now there are approx 200 registered RL players. None of them existed or knew even what the sport was 20 years ago. 

So in terms of progress and actual development, I would argue that a place like Czech is actually achieving more than say, Tonga. 

This is all well and good but when can we expect decent returns from these second tier European nations? 20, 30 years? The problem with that is by that point the NRL will have left everyone behind by a long way. Don't get me wrong, if we could get the NRL to invest in the game as a whole, we could afford to wait it out but the NRL only has their own self interests in mind. They won't wait.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

23 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

We might as well blame my mother-in-law.

Wasn't she the one who brought in the six again rule? Outrageous