League 1 unsustainable?

[daz39]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And that was absolutely shocking, it went away as soon as it came thank goodness.

I quite enjoyed it, going to places like Oldham, Featherstone, Rochdale and beating them and finishing 3rd was a great achievement considering 2 years earlier we finished about 10th bottom of the entire league system and 3rd bottom 5 years earlier.

Edited August 28, 2023 by daz39

[Derwent Parker]

2 hours ago, Phil W said:

Firstly hope Skolars can pull through whatever is going on there. 

A nine team competition isn't a solution. Don't think relegating three from The Championship would be favourable but would balance numbers.

The only new team I've heard show an interest but they're still a while off are Edinburgh. I may have missed others who might be looking at League One as an option. 

Edinburgh to Cornwall   - Now that's an away match??

[Harry Stottle]

9 minutes ago, daz39 said:

I quite enjoyed it, going to places like Oldham, Featherstone, Rochdale and beating them and finishing 3rd was a great achievement considering 2 years earlier we finished about 10th bottom of the entire league system and 3rd bottom 5 years earlier.

Each to their own daz, I just got fed up of seeing the same teams.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[daz39]

8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Each to their own daz, I just got fed up of seeing the same teams.

You won't like SLin a couple of more years then

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, daz39 said:

You won't like SLin a couple of more years then

Is that a prediction that IMG will fail, or are they going to radicalise and reduce the population of SL?

[Derwent Parker]

43 minutes ago, daz39 said:

There's plenty of community clubs who could easily fit in to the level of league 1, just promote them.

Also i remember in the old 3 division times we had an 8 team second division.

Yes we were in it - 28 games 

H & A twice - hard work and boring but better than not enough games like now

[Derwent Parker]

1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

Tail wagging the dog.

Expand SL to 14 if its the right thing to do for SL, a subject we've discussed at length elsewhere. 

But don't do it just because it makes it easier to juggle the numbers elsewhere. 

Short term solutions to fix individual problems, that then create unintended knock on problems down the line, is the rugby league way, but we've got to get out of that habit.

We need to take a view of the whole system rather than short term tinkering.

It is the right thing for SL - it cancels out the loop fixtures

But as we all know it will never happen because Central Funding dived by 12 is more than Central Funding divided by 14 

[Phil W]

The idea of a north and south League One is a good one but it needs teams. 

This would involve having a strategy to grow the game but say if the start of your south is Cornwall, London, Midlands you're then looking at growing the game in say South Wales, Gloucester All Golds, Worcester (there's a stadium there and with the mess Warriors are in there's an opportunity for someone) and then some other places.

North wise you have Edinburgh, could a Glasgow based team work? I like the idea of an Irish based side or two but that'd be for another topic!

But realistically can't see any of that happening but if it was to be a nine team league it'd be very disappointing.

[Derwent Parker]

1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

Tail wagging the dog.

Expand SL to 14 if its the right thing to do for SL, a subject we've discussed at length elsewhere. 

But don't do it just because it makes it easier to juggle the numbers elsewhere. 

Short term solutions to fix individual problems, that then create unintended knock on problems down the line, is the rugby league way, but we've got to get out of that habit.

We need to take a view of the whole system rather than short term tinkering.

Bit rich saying "We need to take a view of the whole system"

When 12 teams are given 1.5Million each and 9 are given 20K each

Its all about the SL - that's all the RFL and IMG etc are concerned about

[gingerjon]

9 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Yes we were in it - 28 games 

H & A twice - hard work and boring but better than not enough games like now

I enjoyed it but a key part of it was that four of the eight teams were leaving the division at the end of the year. It was properly brutal in that regard. I don't think you can replicate it now and it wasn't particularly popular then.

[Derwent Parker]

15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Is that a prediction that IMG will fail, or are they going to radicalise and reduce the population of SL?

The grading system is a way to pull up the drawbridge Harry

You will be there for eternity

[tonyXIII]

I just want to add a few thoughts.

The problem is not how you slice and dice the leagues. It is very simple - MONEY. (Or lack of it) This is what IMG should have addressed, but have failed to do so.

A nine-team league can be successful. The Canadian Football League has nine teams and works quite well. The difference is obvious - MONEY. It also copes with some truly massive journeys.

You can whore yourself as a high-end escort and retain some control, or you can put yourself in the hands of a pimp and lose all control and dignity. We chose Sky. You can make up your own minds where I stand on the matter.

[Derwent Parker]

23 minutes ago, tonyXIII said:

I just want to add a few thoughts.

The problem is not how you slice and dice the leagues. It is very simple - MONEY. (Or lack of it) This is what IMG should have addressed, but have failed to do so.

A nine-team league can be successful. The Canadian Football League has nine teams and works quite well. The difference is obvious - MONEY. It also copes with some truly massive journeys.

You can whore yourself as a high-end escort and retain some control, or you can put yourself in the hands of a pimp and lose all control and dignity. We chose Sky. You can make up your own minds where I stand on the matter.

I Put this on a different page - Long winded but could work

See link below - but ignore SL

A future structure for Rugby League competitions – TotalRL.com | Rugby League Express | Rugby League World

League Structure modified by me

24 Teams = 4 conferences of 6 teams

For example Western, Central, Eastern and Southern - Everyone on here will have an opinion on which teams would be in which conference so to stop extra arguments i wont list them. But ideally to start with they would each have 3 of the top half of Champ and the rest from L1 [different league numbers so wont work perfectly] 

Initially there would be a team or two in wrong conference but nothings perfect after all we did have a Canadian team once?

Under this structure each team will play 22 league fixtures as follows, before play-offs to determine the Grand Finalists.

Five matches at home and five away against each of the other teams in its own Conference, giving ten matches in total.

MAINLY DERBY MATCHES

Another 12 matches as follows:

To create fixtures, in each Conference the teams will be ranked one to six in the order in which they finished the previous season.

Team 1 in each Conference will play H & A  against Teams 1, 2  in each of the other 3 Conf's.

Team 2 in each Conference will play H & A  against Teams 1, 2 in each of the other 3 Conf's.

Team 3 in each Conference will play H & A  against Teams 3,4 in each of the other 3 Conf's.

Team 4 in each Conference will play H & A  against Teams 3,4 in each of the other 3 Conf's.

Team 5 in each Conference will play H & A  against Teams 5, 6 in each of the other 3 Conf's.

Team 6 in each Conference will play H & A  against Teams 5, 6 in each of the other 3 Conf's.

This structure means that when clubs play opponents from the other Conferences, they are likely more often than not to be matched reasonably evenly.

ADD Magic/Summer Bash = 23 Matches Total

If required Loop fixtures could be added by teams 1 and 2 v 3 and 5 and 6 v 4 etc

THIS SHOULD HELP WITH STOPPING THE ONE SIDED MATCHES

Keep Challenge cup as a knockout but SL teams MUST be entered in the last 32.

Again its ok for SL teams complaining about too many games and blow out scores - but to the teams only receiving 20K CF instead of the SL 1.5 million there are quite a few teams would accept getting stuffed at Saints etc to get a good payday.

4 Championship Conf winners

Top team in each conf in playoffs for Championship Winners and SL [highly unlikely] unless gradings allow 

Therefore

1 No P&R required

2 No spending money they haven't got trying to get out of league one

3 No spending money they haven't got trying to stay in the championship

4 H & A for all teams unless Magic

5 Limited Blow out scores

6 More Trophies?

7 More Derby Matches = Better income

8 More Games for L1 = better income

9 The own Conf matches will / could mean lower teams get to play some bigger teams = Better income

 

[Mumby Magic]

3 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

Tail wagging the dog.

Expand SL to 14 if its the right thing to do for SL, a subject we've discussed at length elsewhere. 

But don't do it just because it makes it easier to juggle the numbers elsewhere. 

Short term solutions to fix individual problems, that then create unintended knock on problems down the line, is the rugby league way, but we've got to get out of that habit.

We need to take a view of the whole system rather than short term tinkering.

Exactly we have a history of short term tinkering. Remember looking at a feature in RLW probably 5 years or so ago about structure etc. I tallied up and there were 23 changes, no matter how small, to the structure or P&R, in 30 years. How on earth can a sport progress with this "planning". We allow clubs into our structure without hardly any assistance and expect them to swim.

Back on topic and fir a man who doesn't like to tinker. 12 in the Championship and 11 in League 1 makes sense. Why was the Championship increased to 14 in the first place.

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, daz39 said:

There's plenty of community clubs who could easily fit in to the level of league 1, just promote them.

Also i remember in the old 3 division times we had an 8 team second division.

I think the top community clubs are happy in the competition(s) they are in

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Derwent Parker said:

The grading system is a way to pull up the drawbridge Harry

You will be there for eternity

Then I will most probably never buy a season ticket again, I will break a habit that is to long to remember.

They can keep the games that have no consequence DP, I would sooner play in games that could mean my team gets relegated at least I know it would be an honest contest.

[JT RL]

14 teams, home & away, in the top division dilutes the quality too much, adds meaningless games to overload player wear n tear; both of which reduce the potential to be competitive against Australia … which has to be one of the key drivers in creating a sustainable model.

 

[Derwent Parker]

4 minutes ago, JT RL said:

14 teams, home & away, in the top division dilutes the quality too much, adds meaningless games to overload player wear n tear; both of which reduce the potential to be competitive against Australia … which has to be one of the key drivers in creating a sustainable model.

 

Most of the games will become meaningless once P & R is stopped.

[Derwent Parker]

6 minutes ago, JT RL said:

14 teams, home & away, in the top division dilutes the quality too much, adds meaningless games to overload player wear n tear; both of which reduce the potential to be competitive against Australia … which has to be one of the key drivers in creating a sustainable model.

 

It does not add games it replaces loops, but that's not what SL teams are bothered about - its all about having to share the money!!!!

[Griff]

6 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

It does not add games it replaces loops, but that's not what SL teams are bothered about - its all about having to share the money!!!!

It won't get passed then.

It's not just about coming up with a plan, you need to get folk to vote for it.

[Derwent Parker]

2 minutes ago, Griff said:

It won't get passed then.

It's not just about coming up with a plan, you need to get folk to vote for it.

exactly its all about self interest not the good of the game - AKA Greed

[Griff]

5 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

exactly its all about self interest not the good of the game - AKA Greed

That'd make sense if the club backers were taking money out instead of putting it in.

It's not an attractive plan in any shape or form.  Attendances would plummet.

[Derwent Parker]

2 minutes ago, Griff said:

That'd make sense if the club backers were taking money out instead of putting it in.

It's not an attractive plan in any shape or form.  Attendances would plummet.

So loops are good then - better than other teams??

Better than having Fev and Toulouse in then [for example]

Or is it as I said just about keeping all the money??

[tim2]

College Football in the US has 6 regular season matches yet they rake in millions and millions in merch and ticket sales in massive stadiums bigger than the Premier League. And their national finalists get picked by some kind of secret committee. Not helpful, but it shows what money and marketing can do.

And that is the opposite of RL. No money and the marketing skills of a drunk donkey.

I still find it odd that 25 years on from RU going pro, and building a full pyramid overnight, in RL we still have an artificial divide between "amateur" and "pro". Utterly bizarre if you don't understand the nuances and egos.

If Skolars can hang in, a 10 team League One is still viable.

 

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, tim2 said:

College Football in the US has 6 regular season matches yet they rake in millions and millions in merch and ticket sales in massive stadiums bigger than the Premier League. And their national finalists get picked by some kind of secret committee. Not helpful, but it shows what money and marketing can do.

 

It is all magnificently corrupt too.

That helps.