Fri 8th Sept: SL: St Helens v Leigh Leopards KO 20:00 (Sky)

[phiggins]

19 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

It used to be once you’d gained ground or passed the ball that used to be deemed advantage over. That seems to have changed to refs discretion maybe natural progression after getting rid of free play. 

It does feel like the only progression from free play is that teams don't just hoof it upfield and chase it in sheer hope. 

[Zilla Budgie]

19 hours ago, Dunbar said:

 

I was going to mention this the other day but it slipped my mind.  This reminded me.

I was in San Francisco the week before last for a conference.  The hotel we stayed in was a (very) short walk from Oracle Park, the home of the San Francisco baseball team.  They played a game I think every day of our 4 night stay.

We tried to get tickets for a game but couldn't so watched in a bar opposite the stadium. The stadium is picturesque, as it is next to the water, and the game day experience looked superb.

I used to be in the camp that Americans don't 'do' sports atmospheres as they weren't tribal enough but as I get older I realise they do it really well.  The fans are passionate, they just don't want to rip each other to pieces.   And the game day's allow families to enjoy themselves.  It is a good template to work from I think. 

Did you really need to tell everyone you were In San Francisco for 'a conference'? Simply just saying you were there on a trip/vacation or a holiday would be suffice.

[Dunbar]

14 minutes ago, Zilla Budgie said:

Did you really need to tell everyone you were In San Francisco for 'a conference'? Simply just saying you were there on a trip/vacation or a holiday would be suffice.

Well, I wasn't on a holiday or vacation so I couldn't really say that.

I guess I could have said 'trip'.  To be honest, I was just describing what happened so didn't think anything of it.

[LeeF]

5 hours ago, phiggins said:

It does feel like the only progression from free play is that teams don't just hoof it upfield and chase it in sheer hope. 

Both you & @bobbruce are correct. It is Referee’s discretion which it was many years ago before it became after a pass or ground was then gained. Then it became the free play or kick and hope. Now it’s vague and back to referee’s discretion.

Most of the time there isn’t a clear advantage but every so often you get the what seems like an advantage but play is brought back. 

 

[PEANUT HEAD]

On 09/09/2023 at 13:47, daz39 said:

The penalty was for offside as he was offside first, he hit the man after he was offside, Ref's cannot give 2 penalites at once, either way Leigh got a penalty.

Good to know that for the players,so if they hear the whistle blow for offside they can just run in and smash one of the opposition 

[phiggins]

2 hours ago, LeeF said:

Both you & @bobbruce are correct. It is Referee’s discretion which it was many years ago before it became after a pass or ground was then gained. Then it became the free play or kick and hope. Now it’s vague and back to referee’s discretion.

Most of the time there isn’t a clear advantage but every so often you get the what seems like an advantage but play is brought back. 

 

I think it would be better if we (tin hat on) copy what union do, where the ref signals or shouts when the advantage is over and we’re back in normal play. 
 

In isolation, I’d say that an advantage was gained then saints dropped the ball, but of course the refs need to be consistent in how they’ve been viewing it across the board. 

[GeordieSaint]

8 hours ago, Josef K said:

Knowles hasn’t done anything for years, im amazed how some Saints fans rate him so much. I was told by a Saints supporter who stands behind me that “i don’t see what he doesn’t do ”.

I also think Lees is overrated, he’ll tackle but when the club is down on props who can make the hard yards Lees is not that type of player. Mata’utia had a great game but i don’t think he is the answer for Saints, in moving him into the front row. 

Nah. Lees is a very good prop. He might not be a huge metre maker but he’s a good prop. He’s not big enough to make loads of metres but his work rate is excellent. He is still only 25 too. 

Knowles was excellent. But he’s completely gone off the rails in the last year or two. He’s still only 26 though. Plenty of time to sort himself out and get back on track.

[bobbruce]

8 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Nah. Lees is a very good prop. He might not be a huge metre maker but he’s a good prop. He’s not big enough to make loads of metres but his work rate is excellent. He is still only 25 too. 

Knowles was excellent. But he’s completely gone off the rails in the last year or two. He’s still only 26 though. Plenty of time to sort himself out and get back on track.

Lees is superb and very often gives Saints defensive line momentum. Sure he get the contact wrong now and again due to his lack of size he has to live a bit more on the edge. Unfortunately a lot of the time if props aren’t  bulldozing over people like Walmsley then people just don’t appreciate them. 

[FearTheVee]

On 09/09/2023 at 15:54, Harry Stottle said:

You must be 'kin joking, blind or just thick, if you watched it on TV you will see that it was a high shot and the ref said it was a high tackle.

No issue for Percy at the disciplinary as expected.

[phiggins]

2 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

No issue for Percy at the disciplinary as expected.

One citing was given NFA because of inconclusive camera angles, while another was NFA because the initial contact wasn’t high but the contact did rise.

Given the weight you’re putting into the MRP decisions, I assume you disagree with Wellens and a number of Saints fans on here about the Asiata tackles in the semi final? 

[phiggins]

48 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Nah. Lees is a very good prop. He might not be a huge metre maker but he’s a good prop. He’s not big enough to make loads of metres but his work rate is excellent. He is still only 25 too. 

Knowles was excellent. But he’s completely gone off the rails in the last year or two. He’s still only 26 though. Plenty of time to sort himself out and get back on track.

Do you think Knowles might stay at prop longer term, with Bell at loose forward?

It certainly didn’t look like a pack in need of changing on Friday 

[FearTheVee]

1 minute ago, phiggins said:

One citing was given NFA because of inconclusive camera angles, while another was NFA because the initial contact wasn’t high but the contact did rise.

Given the weight you’re putting into the MRP decisions, I assume you disagree with Wellens and a number of Saints fans on here about the Asiata tackles in the semi final? 

I’m just saying it wasn’t a bad tackle and the Leigh reaction was silly, seems I’m not alone.

I don’t put much faith in the MRP but I couldn’t see any way he was going to grab a ban for basically tackling hard whilst being offside.

Edited September 11, 2023 by FearTheVee

[phiggins]

1 minute ago, FearTheVee said:

I’m just saying it wasn’t a bad tackle and the Leigh reaction was silly, seems I’m not alone.

Didn’t really answer my question. 

[GeordieSaint]

15 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Do you think Knowles might stay at prop longer term, with Bell at loose forward?

It certainly didn’t look like a pack in need of changing on Friday 

Not sure. Bell is much more effective at 13 than in the SR though and playing very well currently. Not sure we have the luxury of both Knowles and Lees as two out of four props moving forward. I suspect Knowles will end up back at 13 in the future. 

[FearTheVee]

18 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Didn’t really answer my question. 

Because “Percival didn’t get a ban therefore you must disagree with wellens” is a pointless straw man.

[phiggins]

11 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

Because “Percival didn’t get a ban therefore you must disagree with wellens” is a pointless straw man.

As is, “the MRP agree with me, so we both must be right” which appears to have been your argument (or should I say “straw man”) When it suits, that is. 

[bobbruce]

38 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Do you think Knowles might stay at prop longer term, with Bell at loose forward?

It certainly didn’t look like a pack in need of changing on Friday 

I’m not sure there is any choice. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

20 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

Because “Percival didn’t get a ban therefore you must disagree with wellens” is a pointless straw man.

It’s really not. It’s a fair question - you are saying there was no issue because the MRP concluded that. Which is fine, but it is then pertinent to ask whether that happy reliance on the MRP applies when you disagree with their decision. 
 

It’s perfectly acceptable to say that you agree with every decision in your favour and disagree with all of them against you. That is one of the WDL’s 7 pillars of wisdom. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Exiled Wiganer

[Damien]

 

 

[dkw]

Can we have a separate thread for Leigh fans and their conspiracies, preferably wrapped in tin foil.

[dkw]

6 hours ago, Damien said:

 

 

Well if mister Krytpton factor says its tough, then no on e can argue.

Edited September 12, 2023 by dkw

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, dkw said:

Can we have a separate thread for Leigh fans and their conspiracies, preferably wrapped in tin foil.

There’s a perfectly good thread on the Politics forum for that

[FearTheVee]

10 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

It’s really not. It’s a fair question - you are saying there was no issue because the MRP concluded that. Which is fine, but it is then pertinent to ask whether that happy reliance on the MRP applies when you disagree with their decision. 
 

It’s perfectly acceptable to say that you agree with every decision in your favour and disagree with all of them against you. That is one of the WDL’s 7 pillars of wisdom. 

Nope. I appreciate it is maybe too nuanced for some, but I said I didn’t think there was an issue and I’d be astounded if the MRP saw it differently.

You think that’s me saying the MRP is always right and I should think everything they do is right or wrong, but that’s overly simplistic. The reality is that I was saying despite how trigger happy the MRP can be, I still would have been astounded if they saw anything untoward with the Percival tackle.

Feel free to extrapolate that to wherever you like, but they will be your words not mine.

As for the saints fans constantly questioning the MRP approach to Saints, a cursory look at redvee will show you iI’m amongst the few pointing out that it’s all echo chamber conspiracy nonsense. They get some right and some wrong, my point was that I could not fathom how anyone could decide Percival hit him high because it’s on video and he didn’t.

Edited September 12, 2023 by FearTheVee

[phiggins]

34 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

I could not fathom how anyone could decide Percival hit him high because it’s on video and he didn’t.

There is a video on YouTube of the whole game. Just seen it back for the first time. And you must be watching a different video, it is clearly high. Might not be worth a card, fine or ban, but it is a high tackle, which would still have been penalised if he wasn't 5 yards offside.

 

 

[koli]

In the run up to Saints first try Lomax was hit very late after passing but haven’t seen/heard any comment on that.