Championship final weekend conundrum

[Cheadle Leyther]

This could be created if say Swinton beat Whitehaven by 4 points next week. This would mean going into the final weekend with both teams on 16 league points and with points differences of minus 320 Swinton and minus 321 Haven. Add to that Keighley would also have16 points and have a P.D. of at least minus 323 if they lose to Halifax. The conundrum for the RFL is that the fixtures on the last weekend mean Whitehaven have to play on the Saturday because they are playing Toulouse, while Keighley and Swinton play on the Sunday knowing what they have to do to stay up.

So to be fair to Haven, should all these matches all be played on Saturday?

 

 

 

 

[Dovster]

9 minutes ago, Cheadle Leyther said:

This could be created if say Swinton beat Whitehaven by 4 points next week. This would mean going into the final weekend with both teams on 16 league points and with points differences of minus 320 Swinton and minus 321 Haven. Add to that Keighley would also have16 points and have a P.D. of at least minus 323 if they lose to Halifax. The conundrum for the RFL is that the fixtures on the last weekend mean Whitehaven have to play on the Saturday because they are playing Toulouse, while Keighley and Swinton play on the Sunday knowing what they have to do to stay up.

So to be fair to Haven, should all these matches all be played on Saturday?

 

 

 

 

I understand what you are saying but I'm not sure knowing what you have to do In RL is of any benefit.

In soccer you can change your team selection/tactcs depending on the circumstances. Not sure this applies to RL.

[The Phantom Horseman]

8 minutes ago, Cheadle Leyther said:

This could be created if say Swinton beat Whitehaven by 4 points next week. This would mean going into the final weekend with both teams on 16 league points and with points differences of minus 320 Swinton and minus 321 Haven. Add to that Keighley would also have16 points and have a P.D. of at least minus 323 if they lose to Halifax. The conundrum for the RFL is that the fixtures on the last weekend mean Whitehaven have to play on the Saturday because they are playing Toulouse, while Keighley and Swinton play on the Sunday knowing what they have to do to stay up.

So to be fair to Haven, should all these matches all be played on Saturday?

 

 

It's a fair point, if what you mean is (for instance) Keighley might know they have to lose by less than 12 points against London, or similar for Swinton against Halifax. If you're 6 points down with 5 minutes left in that scenario that's going to have an impact on your tactics.

I can't see the RFL intervening though, both Keighley and Swinton are away at teams that don't own their own grounds and it might be very tricky to reschedule the games at short notice, additionally the home teams involved (London and Halifax)  might ask why should they have to reschedule especially as that might then pass on an advantage in the play-off race to the likes of Bradford, Sheffield etc who are set to play on the Sunday.

[Harry Stottle]

26 minutes ago, Cheadle Leyther said:

Whitehaven have to play on the Saturday because they are playing Toulouse, while Keighley and Swinton play on the Sunday knowing what they have to do to stay up.

So to be fair to Haven, should all these matches all be played on Saturday?

The other alternative is for the French to play on Sunday, 

[Cheadle Leyther]

The same conundrum could also apply to the final weekend in Superleague, whereby St. Helens could be chasing 2nd place on points difference by beating Hull more than Catalans  beating Salford. If any of these games is chosen as the Thursday or  Friday TV match, will the other game have to be on the same night?

[bobbruce]

58 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

It's a fair point, if what you mean is (for instance) Keighley might know they have to lose by less than 12 points against London, or similar for Swinton against Halifax. If you're 6 points down with 5 minutes left in that scenario that's going to have an impact on your tactics.

I can't see the RFL intervening though, both Keighley and Swinton are away at teams that don't own their own grounds and it might be very tricky to reschedule the games at short notice, additionally the home teams involved (London and Halifax)  might ask why should they have to reschedule especially as that might then pass on an advantage in the play-off race to the likes of Bradford, Sheffield etc who are set to play on the Sunday.

You can’t shut up shop in RL like you can in football if say you new a 1-0 defeat would be enough. If you stopped attacking in RL you would likely get battered even more. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by bobbruce

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

The other alternative is for the French to play on Sunday, 

I genuinely believe a large part of the reason they usually don't play on Sundays is because it makes it much more difficult for part time English teams.

[The Phantom Horseman]

13 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

You can’t shut up shop in RL like you can in football if say you new a 1-0 defeat would be enough. If you stopped attacking in RL you would likely get battered even more. 

You might want to tell this to those coaches who like to praise their half backs for "good game management" when they drill the ball into touch when one or two scores up with a few minutes to go.

I mean, you can't park the bus in RL like you can with football, but there are plenty of ways that you might react differently depending on game situation...five drives and a kick rather than risky play, getting to your feet more slowly when in possession, taking the full allowed time for scrums/drop-outs etc.

[The Phantom Horseman]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I genuinely believe a large part of the reason they usually don't play on Sundays is because it makes it much more difficult for part time English teams.

I thought it was fairly well established that they play the away games on Saturdays because they are having to rely on scheduled flights this year?

As for home games, they're entitled to decide what game to play them on and I would have thought it was no more difficult for part-time English teams to play then than on Sundays?

[bobbruce]

5 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

You might want to tell this to those coaches who like to praise their half backs for "good game management" when they drill the ball into touch when one or two scores up with a few minutes to go.

I mean, you can't park the bus in RL like you can with football, but there are plenty of ways that you might react differently depending on game situation...five drives and a kick rather than risky play, getting to your feet more slowly when in possession, taking the full allowed time for scrums/drop-outs etc.

You can manage a game to an extent but I wouldn’t like my team to go out with a plan of only losing by 12 say. Those things like playing the ball slowly or pretending you are injured only work when the clocks with you. That’s my point try doing that from the first minute and you get battered. How many times does a player get up pretending he’s injured to play the ball slowly and the next player carrying the ball makes no yards and gets hammered taking into a set line. 

[Harry Stottle]

21 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I genuinely believe a large part of the reason they usually don't play on Sundays is because it makes it much more difficult for part time English teams.

In France or England Tommy? Considering this game Whitehaven  v Tolouse is in England and TO are full time not part time why not on Sunday? sorry but I know I will get lambasted for this, but I firmly believe that to often the French tail wags the RFL dog.

[kiggy]

45 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

In France or England Tommy? Considering this game Whitehaven  v Tolouse is in England and TO are full time not part time why not on Sunday? sorry but I know I will get lambasted for this, but I firmly believe that to often the French tail wags the RFL dog.

There are 3 games on the Saturday, not just the Haven TO match. Would they have to move those other two matches as well ? Considering both Batley and Widnes could be in the playoffs, those matches could be also construed as being a fair/unfair advantage to the other teams in the top 9 places, not just the bottom end of the league. 

IMO, I think all the games should take place at the same time. 

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, kiggy said:

IMO, I think all the games should take place at the same time. 

Couldn't agree more Kiggy, no teams should be going into any game at this stage of the season knowing what they have to do.

[The Phantom Horseman]

52 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

You can manage a game to an extent but I wouldn’t like my team to go out with a plan of only losing by 12 say.

That's a straw man argument - nobody is suggesting teams should do that. What we are debating is whether or not there might be an advantage in knowing what you have to do.

Let me give you an example. Let's imagine that going into their last game of the season Swinton were level on points with Whitehaven. With a minute to go in their final game at Halifax on the Sunday, they are drawing 18-18 and get the ball back on halfway. Surely it's not hard to see that if Whitehaven played the day before Swinton's tactics on that last set are going to depend entirely on what happened in Whitehaven's game the previous day?

[gazza77]

1 hour ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

That's a straw man argument - nobody is suggesting teams should do that. What we are debating is whether or not there might be an advantage in knowing what you have to do.

Let me give you an example. Let's imagine that going into their last game of the season Swinton were level on points with Whitehaven. With a minute to go in their final game at Halifax on the Sunday, they are drawing 18-18 and get the ball back on halfway. Surely it's not hard to see that if Whitehaven played the day before Swinton's tactics on that last set are going to depend entirely on what happened in Whitehaven's game the previous day?

As a Fev fan, I think we both know what would happen if a single point was critical, there was 5 mins to play and Fax were the opposition.

[The Blues Ox]

44 minutes ago, gazza77 said:

As a Fev fan, I think we both know what would happen if a single point was critical, there was 5 mins to play and Fax were the opposition.

Sometimes a draw can be beneficial to both teams 

[Michael Bates]

4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

The other alternative is for the French to play on Sunday, 

Inconvenience Toulouse? Surely not? I mean, they're only full time, they could play at 3am on a Tuesday morning if they needed to.

[kiggy]

5 minutes ago, Michael Bates said:

Inconvenience Toulouse? Surely not? I mean, they're only full time, they could play at 3am on a Tuesday morning if they needed to.

They would be playing amongst themselves though, as I doubt you would get another team to turn up

[sam4731]

7 minutes ago, Michael Bates said:

Inconvenience Toulouse? Surely not? I mean, they're only full time, they could play at 3am on a Tuesday morning if they needed to.

That classic rugby league full time contract clause, being on call 24/7.

[Michael Bates]

1 minute ago, kiggy said:

They would be playing amongst themselves though, as I doubt you would get another team to turn up

Indeed, it was more of a point in jest that Toulouse have to play on Saturday afternoons for some reason.

[kiggy]

21 minutes ago, Michael Bates said:

Indeed, it was more of a point in jest that Toulouse have to play on Saturday afternoons for some reason.

It is the RL organisation that should be called out on this. There doesn't seem to be any joined up thinking going on. Stupid idea spreading the last games out. I'm sure TO would have adapted to a Sunday kick off as the last away game if they had been given ample time to adjust plans. More time than they were given by Stade Toulousain anyway

[glossop saint]

Good to see the vanguard of the anti French brigade. Expecting them to turn up in full force soon. Stick Toulouse in the title of the thread and they'll appear a bit quicker.

FWIW all games should be played at the same time. Until we see any evidence otherwise that should be blamed on the RFL not the French, unless Toulouse have somehow demanded that the other Saturday games are played there. And even so this sort of stuff should be clarified well before the start of the season and a condition of clubs entry into the competition. Caveats might exist but these should be decided well in advance and be transparent.

[bobbruce]

Maybe the RFL doesn’t think there’s a problem because they don’t think the games full of cheats. Football had to bring this in when Germany and Austria played out a draw in the World Cup (I think). We’re both teams effectively didn’t leave their own half for most of the second half. With both teams Knowing that was enough to qualify. That just isn’t possible in RL. 

[sam4731]

In a perfect world, the last day games are all at the same time like in football but RL doesn't have the buying power to have 2/3 games on TV at the same time, so we have to contend with whatever sky tell us to do.

[Just Browny]

Imagine the whinging if a part-time team was sent to Toulouse for a Sunday afternoon game and players missed a day's work on the Monday.

I agree with the concern by the way; all teams should be playing their final game in synchrony.