Fri 15th Sept: SL: Warrington Wolves v St Helens KO 20:00 (Sky)

[Chris22]

Defensively, we are an incredible side. Our scramble is outstanding when it needs to be and we are very difficult to score again. Come the play offs, that's going to give us a chance against the better sides in the competition. 

Where we don't quite look as good as Wigan right now is in attack. I suspect that if Wigan had faced that Warrington side, who started terribly, the game would have been over as a contest by half time. Instead, our ultra-conservative approach and lack of cutting edge means that we left an opening for Warrington to make the game a contest, which could have gone either way even going into the final few minutes.

That's 14 wins from our last 16 Super League matches and the kind of form you want to be taking into the play offs. Still suspect we may need a bit of improvement if we are to go all the way though, especially when we meet a very strong defensive unit.

[bobbruce]

19 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Defensively, we are an incredible side. Our scramble is outstanding when it needs to be and we are very difficult to score again. Come the play offs, that's going to give us a chance against the better sides in the competition. 

Where we don't quite look as good as Wigan right now is in attack. I suspect that if Wigan had faced that Warrington side, who started terribly, the game would have been over as a contest by half time. Instead, our ultra-conservative approach and lack of cutting edge means that we left an opening for Warrington to make the game a contest, which could have gone either way even going into the final few minutes.

That's 14 wins from our last 16 Super League matches and the kind of form you want to be taking into the play offs. Still suspect we may need a bit of improvement if we are to go all the way though, especially when we meet a very strong defensive unit.

I agree with most of what you have said but there is no improvement in this team. These lads are giving 100% there is nowhere else to go I’m genuinely amazed they will go into the final week with a chance at the league leaders. They will give it all but won’t have enough to win the GF this year but none of the players efforts can be questioned. 

[WN83]

22 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Defensively, we are an incredible side. Our scramble is outstanding when it needs to be and we are very difficult to score again. Come the play offs, that's going to give us a chance against the better sides in the competition. 

Where we don't quite look as good as Wigan right now is in attack. I suspect that if Wigan had faced that Warrington side, who started terribly, the game would have been over as a contest by half time. Instead, our ultra-conservative approach and lack of cutting edge means that we left an opening for Warrington to make the game a contest, which could have gone either way even going into the final few minutes.

That's 14 wins from our last 16 Super League matches and the kind of form you want to be taking into the play offs. Still suspect we may need a bit of improvement if we are to go all the way though, especially when we meet a very strong defensive unit.

The beauty of that style for Saints is that it’s what play off rugby is all about. We’ve been excellent this past few weeks but we won’t rack up points against a defence like Saints and it’ll be an arm wrestle (should we meet). When it comes to that type of game, our run of reasonably comfortable results might count against us. 

[yipyee]

1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

I agree with most of what you have said but there is no improvement in this team. These lads are giving 100% there is nowhere else to go I’m genuinely amazed they will go into the final week with a chance at the league leaders. They will give it all but won’t have enough to win the GF this year but none of the players efforts can be questioned. 

Hurrell is a big miss in attack, defenders can't handle him and if they try to double up on him there's the out ball to the winger.

Hurrell scored in the penrith game and didn't he force a knock on to get us in field goal territory.

We are missing the big forwards to win the ruck and where saints usually get points is in the last 10 in each half as the quality off the bench is too much for most teams. Norman is no passi and LMS wouldn't play if everyone was fit. Made a good few errors tonight and father time is catching him up.

To have walmsley, passi and Wingfield all missing was always going to effect our middle dominance

[yipyee]

1 hour ago, WN83 said:

The beauty of that style for Saints is that it’s what play off rugby is all about. We’ve been excellent this past few weeks but we won’t rack up points against a defence like Saints and it’ll be an arm wrestle (should we meet). When it comes to that type of game, our run of reasonably comfortable results might count against us. 

Agree and thought the same thing, Wigan are not being tested in the run in and it can work against you

[GeordieSaint]

Nice video circulating of the Warrington CEO showing some real class picked up live by SKY. I did see it at the time. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by GeordieSaint

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, DavidM said:

Williams would have made a big difference to 

I haven't seen this game yet, but which Williams are you talking about, the one that played in the WC and started thus season of very well, or the Williams that has been totally average for a very good number of weeks now?

[Harry Stottle]

11 hours ago, Dave T said:

Aye, that one goes without saying tbf.

See post above Dave.

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

Did Saints win it or did Warrington lose it? The jury's out.

Personally, I think the Warrington team should have won it, and would have with someone calling the shots at halfback.

But that is why Wire have been losing so many games Wolly, nobody has been calling the shots from Halfback, any Wire fans who believe otherwise are just deluding themselves.

Blind Pugh can see what is wrong with Wire, I am just a passive observer seeing what I see without having any involvement with the club, it matters nothing to me if they win or lose.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I haven't seen this game yet, but which Williams are you talking about, the one that played in the WC and started thus season of very well, or the Williams that has been totally average for a very good number of weeks now?

You've made your feelings clear about not rating Williams. I think you're wrong and he's been our best player in 80% of games he's played for us, but it's all about opinions. 

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, Dave T said:

You've made your feelings clear about not rating Williams. I think you're wrong and he's been our best player in 80% of games he's played for us, but it's all about opinions. 

Dave don't get me wrong I rate Williams very highly just not this version that I have seen a number of times in recent weeks, if he goes out leading England in the Autumn as he played last year, as I Wire fan I would be asking some questions.

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

But that is why Wire have been losing so many games Wolly, nobody has been calling the shots from Halfback, any Wire fans who believe otherwise are just deluding themselves.

Blind Pugh can see what is wrong with Wire, I am just a passive observer seeing what I see without having any involvement with the club, it matters nothing to me if they win or lose.

It is important to deal in facts Harry. Our halves have suffered the same issues as many other players in the team, and it's a fair shout that we only have one half that offers real attacking threat, but our halves are some way down the list of things that need fixing. 

Its important to look at the spell when Wire collapsed, our halfback spots were often filled with Walker, Dufty, Matautia, Dean - so if these are the problem halves you refer to, I agree! 

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You've made your feelings clear about not rating Williams. I think you're wrong and he's been our best player in 80% of games he's played for us, but it's all about opinions. 

Really, is that since the bad run started? before then yes he was very instrumental in all that was good about your early season form.

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Dave don't get me wrong I rate Williams very highly just not this version that I have seen a number of times in recent weeks, if he goes out leading England in the Autumn as he played last year, as I Wire fan I would be asking some questions.

Can I ask which games you refer to? We were lacking against Salford but a team with 18 handling errors inevitably means the halves don't even get a chance to show what they can do. 

Getting battered to Catalans and Wakefield are just not outcomes of having poorly performing halves. 

[Josef K]

Great game and a fantastic atmosphere last night but i still can’t see Saints winning the GF. Our defence is like a stonewall but our discipline is shocking and we seem to have a real problem finishing sides off.

A mate told me last night leaving the ground that Saints have scored six points or less nineteen times this season either in the 1st or 2nd half or both. Therein lies our Achilles heel, as we have little idea on how to create anything near the opponents line and finish off teams, along with a dreadful kicking game. 
Welsby has some real big howlers in him but he has also moments of class, like the try saving tackle on Dufty. 

[Chrispmartha]

Just a general point on Warrington, why don’t they just drop ‘the wolves’ moniker, the fans don’t refer to the team as that, they don’t sing any songs about it, their actual badge has ‘the wire’ on it, I’ve always though Warrington have a bit of an identity crisis, why don’t they just go all out with the name The Wire, they could use the industrial heritage as part of the branding and have s bit of a re set.

[Dave T]

26 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Just a general point on Warrington, why don’t they just drop ‘the wolves’ moniker, the fans don’t refer to the team as that, they don’t sing any songs about it, their actual badge has ‘the wire’ on it, I’ve always though Warrington have a bit of an identity crisis, why don’t they just go all out with the name The Wire, they could use the industrial heritage as part of the branding and have s bit of a re set.

I think it's fine. We're Warrington Wolves and have plenty of branding on theme, we have a nickname of The Wire. I don't think it's an issue. 

[Phil]

12 hours ago, RSN said:

 Sky heed to have a clear out of their commentary team. 

They do, in an 80 minute game they mentioned that Darryl Clarke will be at Saints next year 21 times 

[Chrispmartha]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think it's fine. We're Warrington Wolves and have plenty of branding on theme, we have a nickname of The Wire. I don't think it's an issue. 

Im not saying it’s an issue per se, I just find the club’s identity is confused, Id think the same if The Rhinos had ‘loiners’ in their badge and thats what the fans sang at games.

[ELBOWSEYE]

38 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Im not saying it’s an issue per se, I just find the club’s identity is confused, Id think the same if The Rhinos had ‘loiners’ in their badge and thats what the fans sang at games.

It's not an issue in Warrington and that's what counts.

[Dave T]

48 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Im not saying it’s an issue per se, I just find the club’s identity is confused, Id think the same if The Rhinos had ‘loiners’ in their badge and thats what the fans sang at games.

I think it caters nicely for the old and the new (although the logo ain't amazing). One of the challenges is that very many of the songs traditionally sung about Warrington contained Wire, and that ain't just gonna shift, so playing into the Wire name slightly makes sense. 

But the Warrington Wolves name and general branding has been received well and embraced. 

[Dunbar]

What a strange place this forum is sometimes.  A team tries incredibly hard but gets beat 3 tries to 1 due to a lack of creativity and execution.  Someone suggests that having their key playmaker (with the most try assists for the year) would have made a difference and it becomes an argument! 

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

What a strange place this forum is sometimes.  A team tries incredibly hard but gets beat 3 tries to 1 due to a lack of creativity and execution.  Someone suggests that having their key playmaker (with the most try assists for the year) would have made a difference and it becomes an argument! 

I find it really interesting the assessment of Wire's weaknesses. 

We have some that think the halves are the problem. 

Some think the forwards. 

Some the outside backs.

A couple of Saints fans and Sky think Dufty is the problem. 

Some say we have a soft underbelly.

Some question the culture. 

Some blame coaching. 

Some blame all of the above!

[Dunbar]

9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I find it really interesting the assessment of Wire's weaknesses. 

We have some that think the halves are the problem. 

Some think the forwards. 

Some the outside backs.

A couple of Saints fans and Sky think Dufty is the problem. 

Some say we have a soft underbelly.

Some question the culture. 

Some blame coaching. 

Some blame all of the above!

Indeed.  I have my own assessment of course, but then we all do.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Indeed.  I have my own assessment of course, but then we all do.

Absolutely, my thoughts are a couple of things listed in that list, but I do chuckle when everyone is so certain that it is so obvious what is wrong. 

I am pleased to see the club have focused on centres with the squad so far for next year.