The IMG Gradings Thread - Post all your IMG Gradings related questions or comments here

[Damien]

1 minute ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

The new stand doesn't count in Trinity's provisional score so will be added next year. 

That's why I said there are unknows. Until we know what Wakefield have already scored no one knows what additional points they may score on top of what they already have.

[glossop saint]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

They were in SL 3 years ago and finished bottom. Next season will replace another SL season but obviously they cant be placed any worse. They can though lose 0.25 points for their Challenge Cup win (unless they win it again obviously or win the Grand Final)

It was more the none performance side of things I was thinking of. This is where I think the system falls down and would like to see some sort of weighting to account, for example, that Fev don't get the visiting fans from Leeds yet Cas do.

[Dave T]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

The LED lights comments seem to be the most stupid to me, people post it as if it's fa funny gotcha or something. Clubs need to realise that the stadium and facilities they play out of matter in the modern game, thankfully clubs like Castleford now can't just keep bullshitting there way through it and will actually have to improve the facilities.

Agreed. If you actually write minimum standards down, they may look pedantic and smalltime, but combined they equal a decent facility. It's a rubbish way to discredit the system. 

[phiggins]

2 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Using your example.

The league position pts score is 3.259 no matter when the CC was won in the previous 3 years. If it was in year 3 you get an additional 0.25pts (3.509 total) but nothing if it was in year 1 or 2 (3.259 total)

What this exchange does show is the statement in the grading handbook is ambiguous, and needs to be clarified.

Leigh either have a 0.25 point shortfall to make up next year, or the bonus points are fairly negligable as they are baked into the score for that year, which is then averaged out over three years.

[glossop saint]

5 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

The new stand doesn't count in Trinity's provisional score so will be added next year. 

Facilities are an all or nothing score so Wakey will get the full facilities score if the stand means that they now have ticked all the boxes, otherwise it won't make a difference. This is a bugbear of mine with the scoring.

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, phiggins said:

What this exchange does show is the statement in the grading handbook is ambiguous, and needs to be clarified.

Leigh either have a 0.25 point shortfall to make up next year, or the bonus points are fairly negligable as they are baked into the score for that year, which is then averaged out over three years.

Its not that ambiguous really

Edited October 25, 2023 by Chrispmartha

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

Facilities are an all or nothing score so Wakey will get the full facilities score if the stand means that they now have ticked all the boxes, otherwise it won't make a difference. This is a bugbear of mine with the scoring.

But the recent Castleford statement on their redevelopment certainly made it sound like if was a lot more nuanced than that and not as simplistic as the publicly released handbook.

[glossop saint]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

But the recent Castleford statement on their redevelopment certainly made it sound like if was a lot more nuanced than that and not as simplistic as the publicly released handbook.

Maybe. Has their been extra info released to clubs? I didn't think so. Maybe they have misunderstood. Or are playing games?

[phiggins]

5 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Its not that ambiguous really

Ok, so where it says "These scores will be added to the respective team's final league performance scores" is that, a bonus for anything won in the current year will be added to your three year performance score? Or added to your score for that year, which is subsequently averaged out over three years?

I initially read it as the former, @MattSantos suggested it would be the latter. 

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

Maybe. Has their been extra info released to clubs? I didn't think so. Maybe they have misunderstood. Or are playing games?

Their statement was very specific and detailed on the sort of stuff needed:

“Plan A is the full redevelopment which ticks every box going and would help generate more money so then increasing the financial elements of it as well.

“We’ve got a Plan B so if there is an issue and if it drags on where we can’t start anything next season, we have £2 million in the pot from the council to do what we need to do in terms of getting that extra point (from IMG).

“Things that really count – capacity has to be 5,000 which we have ticked, you have to have 2000 seats which we haven’t got.

“You’ve got to have 200 sponsor seats which are padded and physically cordoned off in a different area which we don’t have.

“Your corporate lounge needs to hold 200 which we’ve got, directors box needs to hold 40 and be cordoned off from public are which it isn’t at the moment with direct access to and from the boardroom seats without passing through the public area or be properly stewarded so that’s what we would do.

“There needs to be a broadcast parking area which we have got, studio access for Sky which is on the gantry should be 4 by 4 metres. At the minute it is 3.1 by 3.1 metres but it is doable.

“Media facilities, we don’t have enough but it is doable and photographer facilities is doable. A very rough idea of a Plan B would depend on where we are on the stadium redevelopment by the end of the year.

“Potentially, if the stadium looks like it does now going into next year when we need to get the IMG points, we will start work with the council money.”

The Castleford director then revealed what that council money would provide.

“What we would do then – this is the first draft in my mind – you would refurbish the main stand, you would put the corporate seats in at the top corner and that would be cordoned off.

“We would then move the directors box a couple of rows back to be cordoned off. At the bottom left, it would be more accessible for wheelchair users with a lift where they can watch the game from a height rather than at ground level.

“That would tick a few boxes for corporate and accessibility as a part of minimum standards. We would make media benches bigger, a TV monitor in there with a decent wifi in there.

“The seating capacity would go down even further so what we could do then – I’m not saying this will happen – is take the yellow plastic seats and put them down the front of the Princess Street stand for a hybrid seating and standing which would give the tick for seating capacity.

“We know because they will redo the capacities that we need more barriers in the Wheldon Road end. So take the barriers from the Princess Street to the Wheldon Road stand. Then, we’ve ticked all the boxes to get 1.5 points.

Castleford Tigers managing director on Super League stadium redevelopment with two plans now in place – Total Rugby League (totalrl.com)

[Guest]

Maybe SSN could lead with Broncos relegated from Super League? 

[Chrispmartha]

6 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Ok, so where it says "These scores will be added to the respective team's final league performance scores" is that, a bonus for anything won in the current year will be added to your three year performance score? Or added to your score for that year, which is subsequently averaged out over three years?

I initially read it as the former, @MattSantos suggested it would be the latter. 

https://www.rugby-league.com/uploads/docs/Grading Handbook (Final Version).pdf

 

It's added to the League Rankings score which has a a maximum of 4 points, so the league ranking score + the Performance bonus points have a maximum of 5 points.

The league ranking score is averaged over the 3 years then the bonus points are added to that, it makes sense as the league ranking represent consistency and the bonus points recognise a good previous year.

 

see pages 7 & 8 on the above link.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Chrispmartha

[Spidey]

34 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Good on him. He now knows exactly whats required to improve all aspects of his club, and will try and work hard to achieve that. The system is working as intended. Respect!

Did he run this past you, apparently you know everything?

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

7 minutes ago, phiggins said:

What this exchange does show is the statement in the grading handbook is ambiguous, and needs to be clarified.

Leigh either have a 0.25 point shortfall to make up next year, or the bonus points are fairly negligable as they are baked into the score for that year, which is then averaged out over three years.

It's not ambiguous at all, winning a trophy gets you bonus points over and above those for the 3 year average finishing position that apply only to the current season as quite clearly stated in the handbook - yes Leigh will lose that 0.25 next season (unless they win the CC again).

[LeytherRob]

12 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

The LED lights comments seem to be the most stupid to me, people post it as if it's fa funny gotcha or something. Clubs need to realise that the stadium and facilities they play out of matter in the modern game, thankfully clubs like Castleford now can't just keep bullshitting there way through it and will actually have to improve the facilities.

I'd be interested to see who was actually awarded the points for the LED lights as the wording in the handbook makes it clear that 3 sides of the ground need to be covered, however several clubs i've seen only have one side of the ground covered(Salford I believe only had one and I'm pretty sure Warrington only have one side too)

An additional bonus score of 0.125 is awarded if a club has LED advertising boards across a minimum of the TV arc (three sides with a content management system):

• 100m length (save for where main dug outs are opposite the TV cameras).

• Full length behind goals.

• 900mm high.

 

 

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

It's not ambiguous at all, winning a trophy gets you bonus points over and above those for the 3 year average finishing position that apply only to the current season as quite clearly stated in the handbook - yes Leigh will lose that 0.25 next season (unless they win the CC again).

I'm sure quite a few people moaning about it haven't read the actual grading handbook.

[phiggins]

Just now, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

It's not ambiguous at all, winning a trophy gets you bonus points over and above those for the 3 year average finishing position that apply only to the current season as quite clearly stated in the handbook - yes Leigh will lose that 0.25 next season (unless they win the CC again).

Thank you. That was what I thought. Others have read it differently, hence me suggesting it is ambiguous. 

[glossop saint]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

Their statement was very specific and detailed on the sort of stuff needed:

“Plan A is the full redevelopment which ticks every box going and would help generate more money so then increasing the financial elements of it as well.

“We’ve got a Plan B so if there is an issue and if it drags on where we can’t start anything next season, we have £2 million in the pot from the council to do what we need to do in terms of getting that extra point (from IMG).

“Things that really count – capacity has to be 5,000 which we have ticked, you have to have 2000 seats which we haven’t got.

“You’ve got to have 200 sponsor seats which are padded and physically cordoned off in a different area which we don’t have.

“Your corporate lounge needs to hold 200 which we’ve got, directors box needs to hold 40 and be cordoned off from public are which it isn’t at the moment with direct access to and from the boardroom seats without passing through the public area or be properly stewarded so that’s what we would do.

“There needs to be a broadcast parking area which we have got, studio access for Sky which is on the gantry should be 4 by 4 metres. At the minute it is 3.1 by 3.1 metres but it is doable.

“Media facilities, we don’t have enough but it is doable and photographer facilities is doable. A very rough idea of a Plan B would depend on where we are on the stadium redevelopment by the end of the year.

“Potentially, if the stadium looks like it does now going into next year when we need to get the IMG points, we will start work with the council money.”

The Castleford director then revealed what that council money would provide.

“What we would do then – this is the first draft in my mind – you would refurbish the main stand, you would put the corporate seats in at the top corner and that would be cordoned off.

“We would then move the directors box a couple of rows back to be cordoned off. At the bottom left, it would be more accessible for wheelchair users with a lift where they can watch the game from a height rather than at ground level.

“That would tick a few boxes for corporate and accessibility as a part of minimum standards. We would make media benches bigger, a TV monitor in there with a decent wifi in there.

“The seating capacity would go down even further so what we could do then – I’m not saying this will happen – is take the yellow plastic seats and put them down the front of the Princess Street stand for a hybrid seating and standing which would give the tick for seating capacity.

“We know because they will redo the capacities that we need more barriers in the Wheldon Road end. So take the barriers from the Princess Street to the Wheldon Road stand. Then, we’ve ticked all the boxes to get 1.5 points.

Castleford Tigers managing director on Super League stadium redevelopment with two plans now in place – Total Rugby League (totalrl.com)

From the IMG document - 'in order to score 1.5 the clubs stadium facilities must meet SL minimum standards, if these standards are not met the club will score 0.5.'

As I say, different document or game playing? I don't know. It would be helpful if IMG/the clubs revealed the breakdown.

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, glossop saint said:

From the IMG document - 'in order to score 1.5 the clubs stadium facilities must meet SL minimum standards, if these standards are not met the club will score 0.5.'

As I say, different document or game playing? I don't know. It would be helpful if IMG/the clubs revealed the breakdown.

IMG have quite rightly left it up to the clubs as to whether they reveal the grading breakdown.

[glossop saint]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

IMG have quite rightly left it up to the clubs as to whether they reveal the grading breakdown.

I know. I think that is wrong personally. I think it would make the process more transparent and there might be marginally less complaints.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

8 minutes ago, Damien said:

Their statement was very specific and detailed on the sort of stuff needed:

“Plan A is the full redevelopment which ticks every box going and would help generate more money so then increasing the financial elements of it as well.

“We’ve got a Plan B so if there is an issue and if it drags on where we can’t start anything next season, we have £2 million in the pot from the council to do what we need to do in terms of getting that extra point (from IMG).

“Things that really count – capacity has to be 5,000 which we have ticked, you have to have 2000 seats which we haven’t got.

“You’ve got to have 200 sponsor seats which are padded and physically cordoned off in a different area which we don’t have.

“Your corporate lounge needs to hold 200 which we’ve got, directors box needs to hold 40 and be cordoned off from public are which it isn’t at the moment with direct access to and from the boardroom seats without passing through the public area or be properly stewarded so that’s what we would do.

“There needs to be a broadcast parking area which we have got, studio access for Sky which is on the gantry should be 4 by 4 metres. At the minute it is 3.1 by 3.1 metres but it is doable.

“Media facilities, we don’t have enough but it is doable and photographer facilities is doable. A very rough idea of a Plan B would depend on where we are on the stadium redevelopment by the end of the year.

“Potentially, if the stadium looks like it does now going into next year when we need to get the IMG points, we will start work with the council money.”

The Castleford director then revealed what that council money would provide.

“What we would do then – this is the first draft in my mind – you would refurbish the main stand, you would put the corporate seats in at the top corner and that would be cordoned off.

“We would then move the directors box a couple of rows back to be cordoned off. At the bottom left, it would be more accessible for wheelchair users with a lift where they can watch the game from a height rather than at ground level.

“That would tick a few boxes for corporate and accessibility as a part of minimum standards. We would make media benches bigger, a TV monitor in there with a decent wifi in there.

“The seating capacity would go down even further so what we could do then – I’m not saying this will happen – is take the yellow plastic seats and put them down the front of the Princess Street stand for a hybrid seating and standing which would give the tick for seating capacity.

“We know because they will redo the capacities that we need more barriers in the Wheldon Road end. So take the barriers from the Princess Street to the Wheldon Road stand. Then, we’ve ticked all the boxes to get 1.5 points.

Castleford Tigers managing director on Super League stadium redevelopment with two plans now in place – Total Rugby League (totalrl.com)

That's because they've simply copied and pasted from the grading handbook. There's no nuance just basically a yes/no as you get 1.5pts for meeting all 9 criteria but only 0.5 if you meet any number between none and 8.

[Northern Eel]

4 hours ago, bigbaldnmad said:

Player development can only improve if all clubs that wish to run an academy are allowed to do so... otherwise the RFL pick who it wants to give points to. 

A bit like Eurovision

I am certainly with you on that.

[paul hicks]

19 minutes ago, Damien said:

But the recent Castleford statement on their redevelopment certainly made it sound like if was a lot more nuanced than that and not as simplistic as the publicly released handbook.

if Castleford got a point for every announcement on the ground, they would be 20 points in front of the rest. announcements are worth nothing it getting the job done that gets the points. so if there so called redevelopment is not complete and open by the time the next review is carried out then they should and will get nothing for it .

[paul hicks]

16 minutes ago, Damien said:

Their statement was very specific and detailed on the sort of stuff needed:

“Plan A is the full redevelopment which ticks every box going and would help generate more money so then increasing the financial elements of it as well.

“We’ve got a Plan B so if there is an issue and if it drags on where we can’t start anything next season, we have £2 million in the pot from the council to do what we need to do in terms of getting that extra point (from IMG).

“Things that really count – capacity has to be 5,000 which we have ticked, you have to have 2000 seats which we haven’t got.

“You’ve got to have 200 sponsor seats which are padded and physically cordoned off in a different area which we don’t have.

“Your corporate lounge needs to hold 200 which we’ve got, directors box needs to hold 40 and be cordoned off from public are which it isn’t at the moment with direct access to and from the boardroom seats without passing through the public area or be properly stewarded so that’s what we would do.

“There needs to be a broadcast parking area which we have got, studio access for Sky which is on the gantry should be 4 by 4 metres. At the minute it is 3.1 by 3.1 metres but it is doable.

“Media facilities, we don’t have enough but it is doable and photographer facilities is doable. A very rough idea of a Plan B would depend on where we are on the stadium redevelopment by the end of the year.

“Potentially, if the stadium looks like it does now going into next year when we need to get the IMG points, we will start work with the council money.”

The Castleford director then revealed what that council money would provide.

“What we would do then – this is the first draft in my mind – you would refurbish the main stand, you would put the corporate seats in at the top corner and that would be cordoned off.

“We would then move the directors box a couple of rows back to be cordoned off. At the bottom left, it would be more accessible for wheelchair users with a lift where they can watch the game from a height rather than at ground level.

“That would tick a few boxes for corporate and accessibility as a part of minimum standards. We would make media benches bigger, a TV monitor in there with a decent wifi in there.

“The seating capacity would go down even further so what we could do then – I’m not saying this will happen – is take the yellow plastic seats and put them down the front of the Princess Street stand for a hybrid seating and standing which would give the tick for seating capacity.

“We know because they will redo the capacities that we need more barriers in the Wheldon Road end. So take the barriers from the Princess Street to the Wheldon Road stand. Then, we’ve ticked all the boxes to get 1.5 points.

Castleford Tigers managing director on Super League stadium redevelopment with two plans now in place – Total Rugby League (totalrl.com)

so part of the redevelopment is to take old barriers from the princess street stand that's already a sorry state and put them into the Weldon Road and whoopee that's a part of the job done.  not looking good when you put it that way. 

by the time they get to spend the £2milloin what's it actually going to get with inflation biting into it every month.

[PREPOSTEROUS]

So if Trinity currently score 0.5 for Belle Vue than we could be up an extra point for next season on the provisional grading, albeit we lose on others.