England vs Samoa Series

[Eddie]

1 minute ago, crashmon said:

I think PNG mght be interested, but they probably would want England to tour them, rather than them coming over here

Why? 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

The last WC had 7 European teams - England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Greece, Italy and France. Stick Lebanon in there as well, and you've got 2 groups of 4 that could play WC qualifiers. You could string them out over a 2-year period if need be (i.e. 2 lots of 3 games in the Autumn international window over 2 consecutive years, playing each team either home or away in the 1st year and then reversing for the 2nd year). It wouldn't be the most exciting option, but at least it offers all of these teams some meaningful games in between world cups. England playing WC qualifiers against the likes of Ireland, Greece and Wales would be far more attractive than some back-of-fag-packet ad hoc fixtures IMO. I'm struggling to see many other options of creating meaningful games for England. The other bonus is that the tier 2 nations all get some activity as well.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

15 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

You're probably not far off with that estimation IMO, but we're talking 10% of a relatively small population.

For me the key question is how do we increase the total number of rugby league fans in this country, and unfortunately the club game just isn't going to engage many new supporters. It's the international game that captures the wider public's imagination. So either we become creative with our limited international options, or we give up on the international game, focus on the club game, but accept that we will gradually become less and less relevant to the rest of the country.

It's going to need a major case of ###### polishing, but I think England competing in world cup qualifiers would at least give us some meaningful games (albeit probably mostly one-sided). But these games would need to be marketed to the wider audience and not just aimed at the hardcore RL audience that is over-saturated with top level RL for 9 months a year.

Yes.....I suspect the people we get watching Internationals are worthwhile getting in terms of the general awareness of the game 

I think getting SL (including French input) to the next level will financially more viable .....include London of course 

[Eddie]

12 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Every feasible option for England is likely to be a financial loss maker. Thought needs to be given to the non-monetary costs of England not playing games. And the RFL needs to be far more creative when staging games, and who they target their marketing at. If you played Lebanon, it would make sense to try and appeal to the circa 10k Lebanese ex-pats in London and staging a game down there.

If there are 10,000 Lebanese ex-pats in London you’d be very lucky to get 500 of them to watch some Australians play a sport they don’t know anything about. I admire your optimism but I just don’t think a test series against Lebanon makes any sense whatsoever. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

Just now, Eddie said:

If there are 10,000 Lebanese ex-pats in London you’d be very lucky to get 500 of them to watch some Australians play a sport they don’t know anything about.

Yes probably. But that would be 500 more Lebanese than you'd get at Warrington.

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

I just don’t think a test series against Lebanon makes any sense whatsoever. 

Nor do I

[crashmon]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Why? 

Playing vs Fiji and Cook Islands in Fiji or playing v England at home (in PNG).

I know which I'd prefer if I was a PNG fan.

 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

4 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Playing vs Fiji and Cook Islands in Fiji or playing v England at home (in PNG).

I know which I'd prefer if I was a PNG fan.

 

I doubt England could afford to tour unfortunately.

[crashmon]

I do agree though that if I was PNG its far more likely I would prefer travel to Fiji rather than small club stadiums in the M62 in October.

[BristolDevonCharlie]

2 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

France have to do what's best for them, but I think they should be in the World Cup without qualifying.

Hopefully they'll beat whoever they have to to secure their spot and then are free for an England series post-season in 2024.

What is best for them is qualifying for the World Cup. 

That will be in the format of a regional qualifying tournament against the other six European full member nations. This has essentially already been announced.

That will take four weeks minimum, which will be done post-season. Therefore a one-off mid-season test v England is the only likely fixture between the two in 2024, or even in 2025 (when England go to Australia post-season)

[Barley Mow]

22 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

The last WC had 7 European teams - England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Greece, Italy and France. Stick Lebanon in there as well, and you've got 2 groups of 4 that could play WC qualifiers. You could string them out over a 2-year period if need be (i.e. 2 lots of 3 games in the Autumn international window over 2 consecutive years, playing each team either home or away in the 1st year and then reversing for the 2nd year). It wouldn't be the most exciting option, but at least it offers all of these teams some meaningful games in between world cups. England playing WC qualifiers against the likes of Ireland, Greece and Wales would be far more attractive than some back-of-fag-packet ad hoc fixtures IMO. I'm struggling to see many other options of creating meaningful games for England. The other bonus is that the tier 2 nations all get some activity as well.

Greece aren't full IRL members so don't get to enter WC qualification (unless they obtain full membership before April).

Serbia, Ukraine and Russia are full members though so have to be able to enter qualification (Russia's membership is potentially suspended at the moment).

In the second year of your scheme, the European winners need to enter the World Series for one of two qualifying places at the WC.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Barley Mow

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Greece aren't full IRL members so don't get to enter WC qualification (unless they obtain full membership before April).

Serbia, Ukraine and Russia are full members though so have to be able to enter qualification (Russia's membership is potentially suspended at the moment).

Bung Serbia in instead then. It's more about the principle of having some meaningful games. I suspect to the wider public, a WC qualifier may be an easier sell than a 4 Nations or test series. 

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Greece aren't full IRL members so don't get to enter WC qualification (unless they obtain full membership before April).

Serbia, Ukraine and Russia are full members though so have to be able to enter qualification (Russia's membership is potentially suspended at the moment).

In the second year of your scheme, the European winners need to enter the World Series for one of two qualifying places at the WC.

Greece not having full membership but the likes of Scotland and Ireland doing so just highlights the absurdity of it all. 

[BristolDevonCharlie]

1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I suspect it's just '2024' at this point. Maybe not even that...

https://www.intrl.sport/news/irl-board-update-details-confirmed-for-world-series-world-cups/

https://www.nrl.com/news/2022/06/29/international-window-to-capitalise-on-games-x-factor-abdo/

Basically, we know it will be 2024 (in order for a World Series in 2025) and we know the NRL are driving for the 'October window'. This means in future, I would suspect all RLWC qualifiers to be played in October / early November to allow NRL players to be free.  

[BristolDevonCharlie]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

Greece not having full membership but the likes of Scotland and Ireland doing so just highlights the absurdity of it all. 

Quite.

Greece have until 31st March 2024 to make their case.

Additionally, hidden amongst all the palaver, I read that full member nations that do not meet the criteria have two years to sort their out before being demoted down a level. Sounds sensible. 

[Eddie]

31 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Playing vs Fiji and Cook Islands in Fiji or playing v England at home (in PNG).

I know which I'd prefer if I was a PNG fan.

 

What about playing England away? 

[Eddie]

17 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Greece aren't full IRL members so don't get to enter WC qualification (unless they obtain full membership before April).

Serbia, Ukraine and Russia are full members though so have to be able to enter qualification (Russia's membership is potentially suspended at the moment).

In the second year of your scheme, the European winners need to enter the World Series for one of two qualifying places at the WC.

Greece with their thriving domestic league and national team aren’t full members but Russia are - that’s incredible. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 minutes ago, BristolDevonCharlie said:

Quite.

Greece have until 31st March 2024 to make their case.

Additionally, hidden amongst all the palaver, I read that full member nations that do not meet the criteria have two years to sort their out before being demoted down a level. Sounds sensible. 

Out of curiosity, I just popped on to the IRL website to see which nations have full member status. This is what came up:

If you didn't laugh, you'd cry...

[welshmagpie]

4 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Out of curiosity, I just popped on to the IRL website to see which nations have full member status. This is what came up:

If you didn't laugh, you'd cry...

Being fully reviewed ahead of March 31st 2024, isn’t it. No excuse however.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_International_Rugby_League_members

[BristolDevonCharlie]

7 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Out of curiosity, I just popped on to the IRL website to see which nations have full member status. This is what came up:

If you didn't laugh, you'd cry...

Yes, they did this a few weeks ago after announcing the deadline of 31st March.

I assume it is for people to stop speculating.

Before it was removed from the website it stated that the Full Member Nations were:

Russia are suspended.

And interestingly no Tonga!

[Lowdesert]

24 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Greece with their thriving domestic league and national team aren’t full members but Russia are - that’s incredible. 

Thriving?

[Archie Gordon]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Got all the talk here 

The absolute key question is 

What % of rugby league fans in this country care about internationals? 

Based on attendance I'd guess about 10% of those that care about club RL 

...

I can't see how you've calculated that unless your base is RL fans who support clubs. These aren't the sum total of RL fans in this country and they're definitely not the sum total of potential attendees at an England international - that's just how the RFL thinks.

[gingerjon]

From memory, the CC Final viewing figure was down this year which would make the final test v Tonga the most watched RL match of the year.

[Damien]

20 minutes ago, BristolDevonCharlie said:

Yes, they did this a few weeks ago after announcing the deadline of 31st March.

I assume it is for people to stop speculating.

Before it was removed from the website it stated that the Full Member Nations were:

Russia are suspended.

And interestingly no Tonga!

If we want any kind of meaningful criteria to incentivise nations to improve their foundations and build proper roots then approximately a third of those teams should be demoted and have no chance of being in the World Cup. It's a joke that some of those countries are there. Obviously nations who are doing the hard yards should be promoted to full members.

[londonrlfan]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

If there are 10,000 Lebanese ex-pats in London you’d be very lucky to get 500 of them to watch some Australians play a sport they don’t know anything about. I admire your optimism but I just don’t think a test series against Lebanon makes any sense whatsoever. 

As opposed to what though? The All Stars? Yorkshire v Lancashire (God forbid)? The latter really would send the sport back to the dark ages

[crashmon]

58 minutes ago, Eddie said:

What about playing England away? 

I think you missed my reply here

1 hour ago, crashmon said:

I do agree though that if I was PNG its far more likely I would prefer travel to Fiji rather than small club stadiums in the M62 in October.