Dartsifying Rugby League

[hindle xiii]

From 2019:

(Happy to be updated if this has changed).

Quote

 

The prize fund for the Super League Grand Final is £150,000.

The winner of St Helens vs Salford Red Devils is set to take home £100,000, with the runner-up earning £50,000.

 

Just to add another point to highlight the difference.

[gazza77]

How about a more old-school approach. P&R to SL decided by a Bullseye style competition played by a Chairman/Head Coach combo. Replace the play-offs for the Championship clubs, with the winner then getting a shot at the star prize of a place in SL the following season. I can just see Fev missing out again, as Mark Campbell misses double top for promotion.

[tuutaisrambo]

When you watch darts you don't get the impression the sport has an inferiority complex and is desperate win new fans expand and bring in more money at any cost.

They don't constantly bang on about how Darts need to expand into new territories to survive.

Every darts match matters cos if you lose you are out....... lose too many and you wont come back next season.

Just a few points Rugby league could learn from Darts.

 

Edited January 5 by tuutaisrambo

[Dave T]

21 hours ago, tiffers said:

Some very facetious responses

Sometimes you need to sit back acknowledge that Darts is having it's moment in the sun and try and learn what's contributing to it and adapt it for RL.

We in RL are not in a position to be so righteous about how RL is so much more exposed than Darts 90% of the time. That superiority complex and attitude is sheer small mindedness and is not what will drive success for RL. 

 

I think you appear to be engaged in a different thread. There is no superiority complex on show here in general, and there has been plenty of decent discussion around what can be borrowed (or not).

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, tuutaisrambo said:

When you watch darts you don't get the impression the sport has an inferiority complex and is desperate win new fans expand and bring in more money at any cost.

The commentators don't moan that 99% of darts players are overweight white men........that they are all mainly British with a few Dutch.......they don't constantly bang on about how Darts need to expand into new territories to survive.

Every darts match matters cos if you lose you are out....... lose too many and you wont come back next season.

Just a few points Rugby league could learn from Darts.

 

But darts is expanding into new territories. At least attempting to.

Edited January 5 by Dave T

[tuutaisrambo]

True but they probably don't say they aren't accepting any more English or Dutch players cos they want to expand into new areas.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, tuutaisrambo said:

True but they probably don't say they aren't accepting any more English or Dutch players cos they want to expand into new areas.

No, instead they bring in teenagers and women...

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, tuutaisrambo said:

True but they probably don't say they aren't accepting any more English or Dutch players cos they want to expand into new areas.

Neither has RL. You've had a shocker tbh mate. 

[Rugbyleaguesupporter]

Two things id point out.

1. Turnover of pdc (£40m plus) is more than RFL

2. Sky tv deal on Sky (£22m) is double that of PDC darts (£11m) 

PDC can sell many more tickets- but undoubtedly do better with non tv income

[Dave T]

36 minutes ago, Rugbyleaguesupporter said:

Two things id point out.

1. Turnover of pdc (£40m plus) is more than RFL

2. Sky tv deal on Sky (£22m) is double that of PDC darts (£11m) 

PDC can sell many more tickets- but undoubtedly do better with non tv income

Im not sure you're comparing like for like. PDC drive income as they stage the events. Individual clubs stage the events in RL. 

[Rugbyleaguesupporter]

@Dave Tabsolutely- which is why RL is bigger than darts. 

And as shown by values of tv deal- thousands of people have a deep connection with RL. Lots of darts fans are casual. Hence why RL gets more. 

Add together the combined turnover of RL clubs- it's bigger than darts. 

However 

For world championship- PDC sell 3,000 tickets for 28 session- so around 90k tickets- all sell out 

Challenge cup final- rfl can shift up to 90k but can't. 

Darts other main sell- premier league- has about about 140,000 tickets on sale. This is comparable to Super league final and internationals combined. 

(Other darts events have much smaller attendances) 

So while they are different- and darts more spread- overall PDC is far better at getting casual fans interested, and wider sponsorship

 

The other way that reinforces my point is tv figures. 

Early rounds of pdc worlds and most darts on sky gets under 150k viewers, lower than RL. 

But Sky limit for RL is about 650k ish, darts is over 3 million. 

Key is how RL builds a strong sustainable base (on balance takes preference) but if RL got a slice of casual sports fan- that would greatly help 

Edited January 6 by Rugbyleaguesupporter

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

50 minutes ago, Rugbyleaguesupporter said:

Key is how RL builds a strong sustainable base (on balance takes preference) but if RL got a slice of casual sports fan- that would greatly help 

I think the PDC has been pretty smart with the schedule as well - i.e. the world champs have finished but the Premier League starts next month. So it's almost a case of "if you enjoyed watching this, then we've got this coming up next". Rugby League doesn't have that right at the moment in my opinion. When I started watching RL, there were internationals in the autumn that initially got me hooked, then when they finished it was straight in to the Regal Trophy, then when that finished it was Challenge Cup (I didn't have Sky so couldn't watch the league). There was one relatively condensed competition that led straight into another, then another. Currently, we have a Challenge Cup that has typically been spread out across 7-8 months (although it will be shorter this year) and it loses momentum and doesn't build interest. Plus the internationals are in the Autumn, with nothing scheduled after them for several months. Much like the way that the 'event' feel of live games has gradually been lost over time, I feel the structure of the season has accidentally become less engaging over time. Part of me thinks it would be better to get the Challenge Cup done and dusted and then start the Super League season, but in terms of feasibility that would probably mean Champions League style group fixtures instead of straight knockout, which isn't universally popular.

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I think the PDC has been pretty smart with the schedule as well - i.e. the world champs have finished but the Premier League starts next month. So it's almost a case of "if you enjoyed watching this, then we've got this coming up next". Rugby League doesn't have that right at the moment in my opinion. When I started watching RL, there were internationals in the autumn that initially got me hooked, then when they finished it was straight in to the Regal Trophy, then when that finished it was Challenge Cup (I didn't have Sky so couldn't watch the league). There was one relatively condensed competition that led straight into another, then another. Currently, we have a Challenge Cup that has typically been spread out across 7-8 months (although it will be shorter this year) and it loses momentum and doesn't build interest. Plus the internationals are in the Autumn, with nothing scheduled after them for several months. Much like the way that the 'event' feel of live games has gradually been lost over time, I feel the structure of the season has accidentally become less engaging over time. Part of me thinks it would be better to get the Challenge Cup done and dusted and then start the Super League season, but in terms of feasibility that would probably mean Champions League style group fixtures instead of straight knockout, which isn't universally popular.

I agree with the gist of this but certainly not with the Challenge Cup being a pre-season competition. That does nothing but undermine and devalue it, as we have seen to some extent previously.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

Just now, Damien said:

I agree with the gist of this but certainly not with the Challenge Cup being a pre-season competition. That does nothing but undermine and devalue it, as we have seen to some extent previously.

Yeah I completely understand people's reservations about that. When I look at other sports - with the exception of football, which is a global behemoth - the major events that seem to capture the public's imagination seem to be fairly condensed, short-format type things such as the IPL, The Hundred, 6 Nations, Olympics etc. We don't really have anything like that, other than perhaps our internationals, but they happen at the end of the season and we don't have any other comps to help maintain interest and strike while the iron is hot. I was just wondering whether the Challenge Cup could tick that box for us and generate interest ahead of the SL season. 

[Mumby Magic]

There's a story to publish almost every game if not every day at the big events and it makes the big sports headlines. How many do we create a year? 

Marketability of the players. Some are standard lads and dare I say boring. Each has a nickname and adopts it, market's it and dare I say becomes it. Now I'm not saying everyplace should have a nickname now to market the sport but 1. How many a nickname at all in SL? 2. Before I get slated 3 if most marketable players and recognised nationally from the 90s/SL Ellery Hanley, Martin Offiah and Jason Robinson all had nicknames. Plus didn't Offiah do a marketing campaign with a worldwide sports company? Just saying.

[Chris22]

The international game is the form of the sport that attracts the most television viewers, most media coverage and publicity and is the most attractive to non-heartland viewers. 

It's not as straightforward as simply prioritising and growing the international game. I'm sorry to say that no matter how much you push our players, Super League etc, a lot of our clubs simply do not have an appeal to the majority of the country. England (or GB, if you would rather) is an entity that everyone can invest in.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

38 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

There's a story to publish almost every game if not every day at the big events and it makes the big sports headlines. How many do we create a year? 

Marketability of the players. Some are standard lads and dare I say boring. Each has a nickname and adopts it, market's it and dare I say becomes it. Now I'm not saying everyplace should have a nickname now to market the sport but 1. How many a nickname at all in SL? 2. Before I get slated 3 if most marketable players and recognised nationally from the 90s/SL Ellery Hanley, Martin Offiah and Jason Robinson all had nicknames. Plus didn't Offiah do a marketing campaign with a worldwide sports company? Just saying.

I saw the Chas and Dave Snooker Loopy video from the 80s the other day, and was reminded how the Matchroom Mob made 'characters' out of the likes of Terry Griffiths, who must've been one of the most boring players going. What was interesting, is that whilst the methods may have changed in the last 40 years, the principle is still the same - i.e. market the players and create some stars. I don't know why RL has such a reluctance to do this. Maybe clubs are keen to keep players in their 'box', so that they don't start demanding bigger salaries?

[Mumby Magic]

2 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I saw the Chas and Dave Snooker Loopy video from the 80s the other day, and was reminded how the Matchroom Mob made 'characters' out of the likes of Terry Griffiths, who must've been one of the most boring players going. What was interesting, is that whilst the methods may have changed in the last 40 years, the principle is still the same - i.e. market the players and create some stars. I don't know why RL has such a reluctance to do this. Maybe clubs are keen to keep players in their 'box', so that they don't start demanding bigger salaries?

.....And Steve Davis.

[Damien]

11 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I saw the Chas and Dave Snooker Loopy video from the 80s the other day, and was reminded how the Matchroom Mob made 'characters' out of the likes of Terry Griffiths, who must've been one of the most boring players going. What was interesting, is that whilst the methods may have changed in the last 40 years, the principle is still the same - i.e. market the players and create some stars. I don't know why RL has such a reluctance to do this. Maybe clubs are keen to keep players in their 'box', so that they don't start demanding bigger salaries?

Ah, just had to google that and watch it again when you mentioned it:

One key difference that should not be overlooked is between an individual and team sport. It's always going to be much easier to create personalities when all eyes are on the individual and they are the focus. Just watching the darts the difference is very obvious.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

15 minutes ago, Damien said:

Ah, just had to google that and watch it again when you mentioned it:

One key difference that should not be overlooked is between an individual and team sport. It's always going to be much easier to create personalities when all eyes are on the individual and they are the focus. Just watching the darts the difference is very obvious.

Good point. Although it should be possible for the governing body to pick at least a couple of stars from each team. I think Bradford used to have a theme tune for each player when they ran on and after they scored a try. It just takes a bit of effort and somebody with a bit of marketing nous. I'm not saying the Hearns would be good for RL, but they do seem to know what they're doing with these individual sports.

It's funny watching that video back now, because it looks so old hat, but it was really big at the time and definitely boosted the profile.

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Good point. Although it should be possible for the governing body to pick at least a couple of stars from each team. I think Bradford used to have a theme tune for each player when they ran on and after they scored a try. It just takes a bit of effort and somebody with a bit of marketing nous. I'm not saying the Hearns would be good for RL, but they do seem to know what they're doing with these individual sports.

It's funny watching that video back now, because it looks so old hat, but it was really big at the time and definitely boosted the profile.

From what I remember the profile was already huge and the video was on the back of that. It obviously provided a further boost but the profile was already there.

[Mumby Magic]

I suggested for Bulls to bring it back on a fans page but got poo pooed. Robbie Hotstepper Paul stuck plus obviously there's the Volcano too.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

From what I remember the profile was already huge and the video was on the back of that. It obviously provided a further boost but the profile was already there.

Agreed. I think it was after the Davis v Taylor final which had a massive tv audience.

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Agreed. I think it was after the Davis v Taylor final which had a massive tv audience.

Yeah massive.

Sorry I should have added to my previous post that you were spot on about clubs doing more to create personalities. Obviously not everyone wants to be one, or is cut out for it, but if every club helped push their most marketable players and that also fed into the RFL and SL doing so then it can only benefit the game.

As you say Bradford did that well but in the last decade or so I can only really think of a strong push around Sam Tomkins, by both the RFL and Sky, and that was to keep him in the game as much as anything. I know the game is doing more and more players are being used as pundits etc but we need far more being promoted as Tomkins was. The flair players too as they are the ones that inspire youngsters. Even now the whole lineup is full of retired old forwards whose outlook isn't really the most positive or inspiring, and that's being polite.

[RigbyLuger]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

Yeah massive.

Sorry I should have added to my previous post that you were spot on about clubs doing more to create personalities. Obviously not everyone wants to be one, or is cut out for it, but if every club helped push their most marketable players and that also fed into the RFL and SL doing so then it can only benefit the game.

As you say Bradford did that well but in the last decade or so I can only really think of a strong push around Sam Tomkins, by both the RFL and Sky, and that was to keep him in the game as much as anything. I know the game is doing more and more players are being used as pundits etc but we need far more being promoted as Tomkins was. The flair players too as they are the ones that inspire youngsters. Even now the whole lineup is full of retired old forwards whose outlook isn't really the most positive or inspiring, and that's being polite.

Even though he was a halfback, less Robbie Paul's and more Ashton Golding's etc. With the increased awareness of women's RL and wheelchair RL there's even more potential personalities around who still play, not the same tired old faces and voices.