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  1. 1. War of the Roses.. Yes or No

    • Bring it back.
      31
    • Leave it in the past.
      43


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Posted
Just now, gingerjon said:

The RFL can't afford to lose that kind of money.

And if it could then it should be spending it on things like internationals and the Challenge Cup.

If the argument is this may work if we spend a small fortune then there will be far more bang for your buck spending that same money to play France, or whoever else, in London and hyping that up.


Posted
5 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's not like that at all. We are to all intents and purposes inventing them and starting from scratch. To most that history is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to this concept coming back.

You are deciding it.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The RFL can't afford to lose that kind of money.

I knew you'd pop up on that point 😆

My point isn't about the concept of the Hundred, but the presentation of it, which won't be where the bulk of the costs are for that sport.

Posted
12 minutes ago, JonM said:

The last game can be seen here:

You can see how seriously the Lancashire team took it, with that well known Lancastrian Brian Carney and Geordie Yorkshireman, Chris Thorman bringing the do-or-die state of origin level of intensity.

3 competitive matches that Yorkshire lost and we kept going, one big win and Lancashire took their ball home and haven't played since, says a lot for the Lancashire mentality.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I knew you'd pop up on that point 😆

I did think about not doing but figured it would be like an unfired Chekhov's gun.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Posted
2 minutes ago, Hopie said:

3 competitive matches that Yorkshire lost and we kept going, one big win and Lancashire took their ball home and haven't played since, says a lot for the Lancashire mentality.

Matches where players routinely pulled out with last minute "injuries", zero cohesion because they had one training session together beforehand, crowds many thousands down on what regular SL games at the same venues achieved at the time. 

Manchester Originals RL vs Northern Superchargers RL would probably have more traction at this point, tbh.

 

  • Like 2
Posted
2 hours ago, Dullish Mood said:

Is there even a stadium big enough to hold this behemoth of a game?  Tickets like gold dust. 🤦

We're hoping to use your back garden, just so you can then tell us that you won't be opening your curtains to watch.

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Posted
57 minutes ago, Hopie said:

3 competitive matches that Yorkshire lost and we kept going, one big win and Lancashire took their ball home and haven't played since, says a lot for the Lancashire mentality.

A NCL game is competitive. A Championship game is competitive.

 

Posted
1 hour ago, Damien said:

A NCL game is competitive. A Championship game is competitive.

 

I'm glad you are approaching the roses concept with such an open mind that you are focusing on a single word from a post made in jest.

Posted
5 minutes ago, Hopie said:

I'm glad you are approaching the roses concept with such an open mind that you are focusing on a single word from a post made in jest.

The standard of any games is pretty key don't you think? It's the whole reason and justification for doing this. If the standard is poor but the games are close they will be pretty pointless.

Posted
3 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

We're hoping to use your back garden, just so you can then tell us that you won't be opening your curtains to watch.

Been a season ticket holder for my club for 31 years mate.  You?  I’m just sickened how a small sport seems intent on getting even smaller….

Posted
24 minutes ago, Dullish Mood said:

Been a season ticket holder for my club for 31 years mate.  You?  I’m just sickened how a small sport seems intent on getting even smaller….

Well it will get smaller if it doesn't ever play any matches. That's the problem that people here are contributing towards solving, with one idea being a Roses match.

You're not alone in disliking that option, but do you have any thoughts as to what to do instead? Because the broad consensus here seems to be that there aren't any great options, so it might come down to choosing the least bad one.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Matthew Shaw reporting it is not happening in 2025.

Good.

Sounds like nothing is happening mid season

Edited by Bongo1
Posted
1 minute ago, Bongo1 said:

Sounds like nothing is happening mid season

Have they thought about a 9s weekend?

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Posted
7 hours ago, Hopie said:

Yorkshire and Lancashire have a history in Rugby older than Rugby League itself, I firmly believe that one of the big factors in the 1895 split was that Lancashire and Yorkshire were winning every Country Championship between them and the southerners were trying to push that talent out of the game.

Yes and no, it wasn't about pushing the talent out of the game. The link you are making is strong but it was more that the "Corinthian" southern middle/upper class only saw the gap becoming larger through professionalism (they weren't wrong in their thoughts process). They didn't expect the northern oiks to be able to sustain pro sport (wouldn't be able to organise it) and they weren't sure of the mass appeal. Therefore yes push them out knowing they'd be back but be cap in hand. 

They didn't want the best to leave for good, that would have been, to be fair, short sighted. But they did see that a pro game could only benefit those players more and the northern countries would move further away. 

They didn't like the north thinking they could run anything so they could go and fail and come back. 

Posted
17 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

the marketable identity does not need to be overly Lancashire/Yorkshire centric. I really liked the idea presented earlier of Lancashire being Red and White and Yorkshire being White and Blue to form the red, white and blue of an England jumper.

The identity of this fixture can be more focused on the Red Rose v White Rose rather than Lanc's v Yorks' and there can be an underlying story around the two houses for those who need to know the history.

For those that just want to watch awesome RL with great skills and players smash each other with a national jersey on the line for all participants, well they get that as well.

At one point the whole of the country was the house of Lancaster vs the House of York so agree that a Roses angle might work better

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, JonM said:

The last game can be seen here:

You can see how seriously the Lancashire team took it, with that well known Lancastrian Brian Carney and Geordie Yorkshireman, Chris Thorman bringing the do-or-die state of origin level of intensity.

You've posted that to try and present one of the worst of the previous attempts ....a one sided game with a half empty Odsal Top

But do you know what stands out on this video? 

The noise/passion from the fans who are there can be heard loudly.....louder than we heard at Headingly this weekend ( and I don't mean the telly feed....I was at Leeds for it and heard)

In addition there was clear chanting all the way through the second half

Much much louder than the last few France games 

If that can be built upon and get the crowds up in a better venue then maybe that is a better mid season way for our best English players to get together and play a match between the very best SL has to offer .....surely that is better than that God awful game we had against France last year.....all that did was waste a weekend fixture and embarrass our sport with the poor crowd, one sided result and no one on the very poor tv coverage in the crowd caring or making noise.....and our players learnt nothing and aren't tested 

 

Edited by Bedfordshire Bronco
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Damien said:

And if it could then it should be spending it on things like internationals and the Challenge Cup.

If the argument is this may work if we spend a small fortune then there will be far more bang for your buck spending that same money to play France, or whoever else, in London and hyping that up.

Hyping up what exactly????

We will beat France by 20-30 points or maybe more EVERY time ....spend all you like ....it will never be worth watching either to us RL nerds or the general public 

A Roses match has at least a chance of being regularly competitive and giving the best chance of high standard mid season rep football to prepare them for the Autumn tests 

Edited by Bedfordshire Bronco
  • Like 1
Posted
1 minute ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Hyping up what exactly????

We will beat France by 20-30 points or maybe more EVERY time ....spend all you like ....it will never be worth watching either to us RL nerds or the general public 

A Roses match has at least a chance of being regularly competitive and giving the best chance of high standard mid season rep football to prepare them for the Autumn tests 

Hyping up what exactly applies to War of the Roses too. Its not high standard either, everyone who has watched these in the past knows that.

I think you miss the Daves point and the context for what you quote anyway. I obviously wasn't talking about RL nerds or playing it in the heartlands and I obviously wasn't referring to England v France that we see now.

Posted
31 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

You've posted that to try and present one of the worst of the previous attempts ....a one sided game with a half empty Odsal Top

It was just the most recent game (and as it happens, by far one of the best attended county games in the 40 years leading up to it.)

  • Like 1
Posted
2 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

Well it will get smaller if it doesn't ever play any matches. That's the problem that people here are contributing towards solving, with one idea being a Roses match.

You're not alone in disliking that option, but do you have any thoughts as to what to do instead? Because the broad consensus here seems to be that there aren't any great options, so it might come down to choosing the least bad one.

We play loads of matches, far too many CLUB matches.  Lancs v Yorks isn’t much more than a club match and will be even more poorly attended than said club matches.  It’s an embarrassment.  The definition of parochial small time.  We need England to somehow jump on the coat tails of the NRL (not IRL) driven international scene down under else we’ll continue to shrink from an already low base.

Posted
13 minutes ago, JonM said:

It was just the most recent game (and as it happens, by far one of the best attended county games in the 40 years leading up to it.)

8,258 on a Wednesday night, which wasn't as many as the 10,253 who saw the 2001 match on a Tuesday night. I can't find the numbers for 2002 but I was at the Headingley match that year and still remember how much noise the second half Yorkshire comeback drew out from the Southstand.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

At one point the whole of the country was the house of Lancaster vs the House of York so agree that a Roses angle might work better

I'll say it again, I bring it up every time it's mentioned but I do quite like it (wouldn't work mind)... Align counties to dukes and earls and where they sided... And anyone from Warwickshire changes sides every year

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