War of the Roses (Again)

[Bongo1]

29 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

WoR has come up again this weekend because it seems Wane may prefer that as preparation for next year's Ashes to the mid-season international we have had with France the last two seasons. Based on the lacklustre attempt that was made of the France game this year, there's at least an argument that he's correct - but France are the most competitive nation available that time of year.

From a 'benefit to England' point of view, the only other thing I can see (with SH teams not playing mid-season) is a Combined Nations team - which was tried for the two seasons before France (2021 & 2022).

 

Seen PNG mentioned on a couple posts as a large number of PNG players will be playing in Super league and Championship, obviously the stumbling block with that is some of the players in the Queensland Cup will need to be released 

[Damien]

14 minutes ago, Bongo1 said:

Seen PNG mentioned on a couple posts as a large number of PNG players will be playing in Super league and Championship, obviously the stumbling block with that is some of the players in the Queensland Cup will need to be released 

Realistically I can't see such a team being any stronger than France.

[JonM]

2 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

 I imagine an England team made up of overlooked players would give Wane's England a good run.

Probables v Possibles? Certainly got a bit more edge to it than Yorkshire vs 'what would have been on your birth certificate if you'd been born 30 years earlier red roses, no not the womens rugby union team, the other one."

[Bongo1]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Realistically I can't see such a team being any stronger than France.

Yeah same outcome but just changing opponents, a mid season test against the pacific bowl champs is a change and could get a few more through the gates, perhaps

[Gerrumonside ref]

3 hours ago, Damien said:

It was pretty much what I'd have  expected Shaun Wane to say based on the type of stuff he comes out with.

He also said about it can be a success if we get a top line sponsor on board, either is wishful to say the least, and the same lazy comparisons with SOO.

I think the latter sentences about commercialising Origin is outside his field of expertise, but knowing whether France or WotR is better preparation for the England players is something he would know best I would think?

[gingerjon]

20 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

 but knowing whether France or WotR is better preparation for the England players is something he would know best I would think?

Even then you're dealing with a reality - the games versus France - and an imagined alternative that doesn't exist.

[MatthewWoody]

48 minutes ago, Bongo1 said:

Yeah same outcome but just changing opponents, a mid season test against the pacific bowl champs is a change and could get a few more through the gates, perhaps

It'd be perfect. The only possibility is in the Southern Hemisphere. 

England went there under Bennett.

In Port Moresby it'd be very good. 

Or Australia is ok. 

Still better than Toulouse before a Championship game. 

Edited November 4, 2024 by MatthewWoody

[JM2010]

I think at the moment the Roses is the most competitive fixture that could be put on mid season for England players but for the long term health of international RL in the NH then trying to build up France as a credible opponent is best. 
 

Depends what the RFL want to achieve from the mid season fixture 

[Damien]

47 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I think the latter sentences about commercialising Origin is outside his field of expertise, but knowing whether France or WotR is better preparation for the England players is something he would know best I would think?

I dont think what he envisages is the case or will be the case.

[Damien]

20 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I think at the moment the Roses is the most competitive fixture that could be put on mid season for England players but for the long term health of international RL in the NH then trying to build up France as a credible opponent is best. 
 

Depends what the RFL want to achieve from the mid season fixture 

But less competitive than a top SL game which makes the whole thing rather pointless when it's not even England playing.

[Griff]

If Shaun thinks that a WotR game would help him and the RFL think that they can make a profit (or justify the loss) and that they can justify the extra game at a time when we're supposed to be limiting game time for players, I see no reason why it shouldn't be played.

[MatthewWoody]

The Knights' concept could be revived and be put faith on. 

Australia has the PM XIII...

[eal]

England v Exiles paired with England Knights v France perhaps?

Problem is the French are so unreliable. If they host the game it will be poorly organized with 50 people in the crowd. I imagine if they were playing the Knights they probably wouldn't bother fielding a full strength team either.

 

[Archie Gordon]

2 hours ago, Bongo1 said:

Yeah same outcome but just changing opponents, a mid season test against the pacific bowl champs is a change and could get a few more through the gates, perhaps

I don't really think it would draw (m)any more than France.

But it would be different and expose England players and fans to something we lack - a bit of variety.

[Henson Park Old Firm]

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/img-drop-major-war-of-the-roses-hint-as-brutal-france-admission-made

[Bongo1]

29 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I don't really think it would draw (m)any more than France.

But it would be different and expose England players and fans to something we lack - a bit of variety.

As soon as I typed and sent that I thought nah probably wouldn't attract more fans

[Bull Mania]

WoR looks intriguing on paper. But players will drop out through injury and niggles and as soon as you take a few players out of each side, it looks less appealing. 

The France game is a dud. Fed up of people saying "only way France get better is player them etc " last year was an utter embarrassment and England got no benefit and neither did France. We've played the French for a number years and they're no better than they were 15 years ago. Only way they'll get better is having a bigger pool of players playing in SL(which is why the comparison to Italy in union isn't like for like as they have a lot more fully professional domestic players) 

I think it's important the England players have a decent test before the Ashes as its the biggest opportunity for the sport in this country for a long time. The exiles is the best of the 3 options IMO

A team of Field/Armstrong/May/Lafai/Mcdonald/French/Lam/Amone/Ibappe/Vaughan/Sironen/Martin/Asiata - Mbye/Sue/Sims/Fitzgibbon will give England a far bigger test than smashing France by 50 points. 

And before anyone gets upset on my made up exiles team, I've just made it up on the spot, I've not gone through all the available players! 

[JM2010]

6 minutes ago, Bull Mania said:

WoR looks intriguing on paper. But players will drop out through injury and niggles and as soon as you take a few players out of each side, it looks less appealing. 

The France game is a dud. Fed up of people saying "only way France get better is player them etc " last year was an utter embarrassment and England got no benefit and neither did France. We've played the French for a number years and they're no better than they were 15 years ago. Only way they'll get better is having a bigger pool of players playing in SL(which is why the comparison to Italy in union isn't like for like as they have a lot more fully professional domestic players) 

I think it's important the England players have a decent test before the Ashes as its the biggest opportunity for the sport in this country for a long time. The exiles is the best of the 3 options IMO

A team of Field/Armstrong/May/Lafai/Mcdonald/French/Lam/Amone/Ibappe/Vaughan/Sironen/Martin/Asiata - Mbye/Sue/Sims/Fitzgibbon will give England a far bigger test than smashing France by 50 points. 

And before anyone gets upset on my made up exiles team, I've just made it up on the spot, I've not gone through all the available players! 

To be fair that’s a pretty strong team. It could work as an event but SL commercial/the RFL need to find a way of building it up and marketing it so that fans get behind it.

I wouldn’t call it Exiles and I wouldn’t include players that are eligible for England but didn’t make the squad. I’d keep it to players who aren’t eligible for England

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/img-drop-major-war-of-the-roses-hint-as-brutal-france-admission-made

Way to kill off the future of international rugby league in Europe. Absolutely dreadful decision can’t believe how these people have a job.

[17 stone giant]

5 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

Way to kill off the future of international rugby league in Europe. Absolutely dreadful decision can’t believe how these people have a job.

What if you made it a four team tournament - Yorkshire, Lancashire, France and Wales? Everyone plays each other once, and you could even have a final like the Tri-Nations.

If you did that, France and Wales would have three games each, so that wouldn't be killing off international rugby league in Europe - it would be giving those countries more than they have now. And hopefully at a level where they would be more competitive, rather than getting smashed by the full England side.

[Bongo1]

29 minutes ago, Bull Mania said:

WoR looks intriguing on paper. But players will drop out through injury and niggles and as soon as you take a few players out of each side, it looks less appealing. 

The France game is a dud. Fed up of people saying "only way France get better is player them etc " last year was an utter embarrassment and England got no benefit and neither did France. We've played the French for a number years and they're no better than they were 15 years ago. Only way they'll get better is having a bigger pool of players playing in SL(which is why the comparison to Italy in union isn't like for like as they have a lot more fully professional domestic players) 

I think it's important the England players have a decent test before the Ashes as its the biggest opportunity for the sport in this country for a long time. The exiles is the best of the 3 options IMO

A team of Field/Armstrong/May/Lafai/Mcdonald/French/Lam/Amone/Ibappe/Vaughan/Sironen/Martin/Asiata - Mbye/Sue/Sims/Fitzgibbon will give England a far bigger test than smashing France by 50 points. 

And before anyone gets upset on my made up exiles team, I've just made it up on the spot, I've not gone through all the available players! 

I would try and squeeze a game against France in as well on a Wednesday or something, we can't completeley abandon france but we also need a decent test

[sam4731]

I honestly believe that the only way that we get a competitive French team is a full time professional comp in France. I know it would take a lot of money but it's something that I'm surprised isn't brought up more often.

[Bongo1]

22 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

To be fair that’s a pretty strong team. It could work as an event but SL commercial/the RFL need to find a way of building it up and marketing it so that fans get behind it.

I wouldn’t call it Exiles and I wouldn’t include players that are eligible for England but didn’t make the squad. I’d keep it to players who aren’t eligible for England

Pacific All Stars

[MatthewWoody]

Do people outside this forum understand how the test v France will save the game? 

[NRLandSL]

25 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

What if you made it a four team tournament - Yorkshire, Lancashire, France and Wales? Everyone plays each other once, and you could even have a final like the Tri-Nations.

If you did that, France and Wales would have three games each, so that wouldn't be killing off international rugby league in Europe - it would be giving those countries more than they have now. And hopefully at a level where they would be more competitive, rather than getting smashed by the full England side.

That is a great idea. Lets they introduce something like that. Leaving France without any proper competition would be a horrible decision for not only the future of French rugby league but English rugby league too.