Captains Call

[Dave T]

Just now, LeeF said:

The show bit or the incorrect decisions? Currently the decisions made by the VR in RL are correct in the vast majority of cases especially if you understand the protocols around the process.
 

The introduction by Sky of hearing the VR does assist even if we do have to listen to Ben Thaler clearly having a nice relaxing evening on his sofa with some Pringles and a few cans of Pepsi

The 'for show' bit. The whole thing is for show, it's sports entertainment, but I don't think their system can just be dismissed as that. I acknowledged that some decisions will be incorrect under any system. 

[LeeF]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The 'for show' bit. The whole thing is for show, it's sports entertainment, but I don't think their system can just be dismissed as that. I acknowledged that some decisions will be incorrect under any system. 

I just don’t think it adds anything and is a bit of a long winded talking shop or committee meeting 

[sentoffagain2]

2 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

I always forward wind through the cc in the NRL- theres enough stoppages in the game already - not for me

   Only one challenge each if they get it wrong.How long does it take 40 seconds.While some goalkickers take a full minute before kicking.If it can reverse a wrong decision that may have a bearing on the match result.I would have 2 each side one each half .

[phiggins]

10 minutes ago, LeeF said:

They only “agonise” because those decisions are the highly marginal ones which by definition need more viewings from a larger number of angles.

I’d happily get rid of the VR just like you suggest but wait for the first marginal try awarded or not awarded and the game would go into meltdown with some players, coaches & owners doing a “Notts Forest” style rant

I'm not sure it is the case that all VR calls that take a while are because they are marginal. I think some, less experienced VRs seem to want to have an extra look or two when the decision is already pretty clear. Compare to Ben Thaler, who more often than not is very decisive and doesn't take too long. But as refs get more experienced that will hopefully change.

Yes, there will be rants, and bitter posts. Though, ironically, the example you give on Notts Forest was them posting about decisions made by VAR!

[Dunbar]

1 minute ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   Only one challenge each if they get it wrong.How long does it take 40 seconds.While some goalkickers take a full minute before kicking.If it can reverse a wrong decision that may have a bearing on the match result.I would have 2 each side one each half .

Do you mean two challenges each half or two available challenges each half as they are different things. Tofay, if a challenge is successful then they keep it and can challenge again. So in theory, 2 successful challenges per team each half becomes 8 challenges in a match.

Obviously not very likely but I don't see the point of adding more stoppages and more VR intervention... 1 challenge each which you keep if you win works fine.

[LeeF]

4 minutes ago, phiggins said:

I'm not sure it is the case that all VR calls that take a while are because they are marginal. I think some, less experienced VRs seem to want to have an extra look or two when the decision is already pretty clear. Compare to Ben Thaler, who more often than not is very decisive and doesn't take too long. But as refs get more experienced that will hopefully change.

Yes, there will be rants, and bitter posts. Though, ironically, the example you give on Notts Forest was them posting about decisions made by VAR!

The issue this season has been the inexperience of the TV crews with incorrect or poor cameras being chosen for the replay(s) despite, in some instances, the VR requesting the correct camera.

I was aware of the Notts Forest reference being ironic but it does show how poorly some can react to a decision or decisions even when they are correct

[The Blues Ox]

I'd have the captains challenge in the game but to try and cut down on any shenanigans you could take away a substitution if it is wrong. With the number of substitutions allowed coming down I think that just about gives the captains a bit of a dillema because it could effect them tactically later in the game.

[graveyard johnny]

28 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   Only one challenge each if they get it wrong.How long does it take 40 seconds.While some goalkickers take a full minute before kicking.If it can reverse a wrong decision that may have a bearing on the match result.I would have 2 each side one each half .

i wind forward the goal kicks as well unless they're ultra important

[Dave T]

43 minutes ago, LeeF said:

I just don’t think it adds anything and is a bit of a long winded talking shop or committee meeting 

Admittedly I don't watch much Union so I've probably missed plenty of poor instances but I've never seen an issue with it tbh. I think pacing of a Union game is very different to ours, so they could easily speed it up. I would prefer the VR and the ref to work together. 

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

i wind forward the goal kicks as well unless they're ultra important

Unfortunately I have had to fast forward through this thread with the many references to Rugby Union, I don't watch it at all so I have not a scooby what they posters are on about.

If they want to make reference to it, just talk about the NRL, it works fine in that comp.

[HawkMan]

6 hours ago, LeeF said:

The issue this season has been the inexperience of the TV crews with incorrect or poor cameras being chosen for the replay(s) despite, in some instances, the VR requesting the correct camera.

I was aware of the Notts Forest reference being ironic but it does show how poorly some can react to a decision or decisions even when they are correct

Apologies for being pedantic,  but I know football fans in Nottingham are really touchy about this; it's Nottm Forest and Notts County.

Captain's call in NRL adds a bit an of extra layer of intrigue to the game, so thumbs up from me.

Edited April 24 by HawkMan

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Apologies for being pedantic,  but I know football fans in Nottingham are really touchy about this; it's Nottm Forest and Notts County.

Captain's call in NRL adds a bit an of extra layer of intrigue to the game, so thumbs up from me.

If it's intrigue we're after let's go the whole hog and have a Masked player whose identity is only revealed when voted out. 

[HawkMan]

11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If it's intrigue we're after let's go the whole hog and have a Masked player whose identity is only revealed when voted out. 

Hmm...yeah, tactical nuance is a better term than intrigue.

[gingerjon]

33 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

I know football fans in Nottingham are really touchy about this; it's Nottm Forest and Notts County.

This is entirely why you should refer to them as Notts Forest and Nottm County.

Precious snowflakes.

[Snowys Backside]

Should only be used for small infringements resulting in a turnover or a penalty. 
 

Refs seem to have bottled it this year in regards to ball stealing and rip outs, instead stating it’s the ball carriers responsibility. That can be easily turned over. 
 

Saturday we saw the most blatant knock on at the ptb resulting in loss of game. Mistakes are made but these infringements are easily challenged and rectified as mistakes do happen. 
 

It also adds spice to the game and keeps ref on their toes in regards to their integrity as we all know what coloured shirts the likes of Kendal and Moore wear (Joking !) 

[Dave T]

4 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

 

Saturday we saw the most blatant knock on at the ptb resulting in loss of game. Mistakes are made but these infringements are easily challenged and rectified as mistakes do happen. 
 

The knock on didn't result in the loss of the game. 

My understanding is that Captain's Challenge wouldn't have done anything about that. 

[Snowys Backside]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The knock on didn't result in the loss of the game. 

My understanding is that Captain's Challenge wouldn't have done anything about that. 

All depends if a Leigh player had made the ref aware as it was an 'on field' incident. To be honest, i don't think any Leigh player did make the ref aware but if they did, he should have gone to the VR Captains Challenge or not. One thing it shouldn't have been is 'play on'. He either knocked it on or it was a Penalty to Wire for a strip in a 2 man tackle.

Yes, it didn't result in loss of game, but from that resulting play the ball came 4 points. The rest is History.

Ball strips are beginning to get on my nerves now as most are not given. Bring it in and bin the 6 again. Just penalize them !!!

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

All depends if a Leigh player had made the ref aware as it was an 'on field' incident. To be honest, i don't think any Leigh player did make the ref aware but if they did, he should have gone to the VR Captains Challenge or not. One thing it shouldn't have been is 'play on'. He either knocked it on or it was a Penalty to Wire for a strip in a 2 man tackle.

Yes, it didn't result in loss of game, but from that resulting play the ball came 4 points. The rest is History.

Ball strips are beginning to get on my nerves now as most are not given. Bring it in and bin the 6 again. Just penalize them !!!

He couldn't go to the VR is my understanding. It was in the previous tackle. 

[Dunbar]

2 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

All depends if a Leigh player had made the ref aware as it was an 'on field' incident. To be honest, i don't think any Leigh player did make the ref aware but if they did, he should have gone to the VR Captains Challenge or not. One thing it shouldn't have been is 'play on'. He either knocked it on or it was a Penalty to Wire for a strip in a 2 man tackle.

That's not how the challenge works.  You can't just make a challenge and stop the game.  There was no decision given and the game continued so there was no opportunity to challenge.

And a player cannot make the ref aware after the try as the video ref can only go back to the execution of the last play the ball and so a knock on in the ruck would not have been pulled back (and the 10 second limit on a challenge was well over).

That try would not have been effected by the existence of the captains challenge.

Sometimes mistakes happen.

[Snowys Backside]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

He couldn't go to the VR is my understanding. It was in the previous tackle. 

It was at the play the ball trying to get up as far as im concerned. The tackle was complete with the Leigh players rolling off.

I understand nothing could be done and as I have stated, I feel it was only picked up afterwards but if it was a clear knock on, Captains challenge or not, I would have bellowed knock on at the PTB and get the ref to look at the whole tackle.

The ref no doubt still would have given try only for it to be chalked off.

Anyway, onto this weekend is another set of fixtures and i am sure the refs are briefed about making errors but it happens.

I though would welcome it though as the game is getting a little grubby and untidy again.

[Dave T]

47 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

It was at the play the ball trying to get up as far as im concerned. The tackle was complete with the Leigh players rolling off.

I understand nothing could be done and as I have stated, I feel it was only picked up afterwards but if it was a clear knock on, Captains challenge or not, I would have bellowed knock on at the PTB and get the ref to look at the whole tackle.

The ref no doubt still would have given try only for it to be chalked off.

Anyway, onto this weekend is another set of fixtures and i am sure the refs are briefed about making errors but it happens.

I though would welcome it though as the game is getting a little grubby and untidy again.

My understanding is that they can only look bac to the actual PTB. Any knock on was prior to the PTB, it was in the previous tackle.

[JohnM]

"I would have bellowed knock on at the PTB and get the ref to look at the whole tackle."

Since when have the players been allowed to act as match officials?

[Harry Stottle]

9 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Since when have the players been allowed to act as match officials?

Isn't that the whole point of the Captains Challenge, questioning the refs decision?

[Dunbar]

Edit

Edited April 25 by Dunbar

[Dunbar]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Isn't that the whole point of the Captains Challenge, questioning the refs decision?

Not in this instance.

The time allowed for a challenge would have elapsed and the VR can't go back to before the last play the ball was executed when checking on a try.