Welcome to rugby league in France

[barnyia]

The tv coverage is the best we have, if not its just games on YouTube. A couple of years ago we didn't even have this, people speak of pro rugby league in France! Crowds are disappearing except for the Catalans, playing numbers are dropping, no one is interested on our little regional sport. 

The federation are trying to get life back into the game but it's too far gone, sorry to be negative. but for us in france it's great to have rl on tv(regional internet channel) and a few thousands at the ground. People outside of France really don't understand how much the game is struggling and how hard the small number of passionate treizistes  work to keep it  alive. 

[Click]

2 minutes ago, barnyia said:

The tv coverage is the best we have, if not its just games on YouTube. A couple of years ago we didn't even have this, people speak of pro rugby league in France! Crowds are disappearing except for the Catalans, playing numbers are dropping, no one is interested on our little regional sport. 

The federation are trying to get life back into the game but it's too far gone, sorry to be negative. but for us in france it's great to have rl on tv(regional internet channel) and a few thousands at the ground. People outside of France really don't understand how much the game is struggling and how hard the small number of passionate treizistes  work to keep it  alive. 

What are they doing to try and get life back into the game? 

You would think this would be their big/only money making fixture of the year yet what did they even do to promote the game? 

[Hopie]

I think people project what they want France to be ahead of what France actually is, that they expect us to have competitive fixtures based on the infrastructure available is just laughable, but like them I hope France can grow from here.

The world cup might have been a good launch point, but then again it could have been a 2000 style bankrupting event too, so lets hope the alternative route works out.

[langpark]

1 hour ago, barnyia said:

The tv coverage is the best we have, if not its just games on YouTube. A couple of years ago we didn't even have this, people speak of pro rugby league in France! Crowds are disappearing except for the Catalans, playing numbers are dropping, no one is interested on our little regional sport. 

The federation are trying to get life back into the game but it's too far gone, sorry to be negative. but for us in france it's great to have rl on tv(regional internet channel) and a few thousands at the ground. People outside of France really don't understand how much the game is struggling and how hard the small number of passionate treizistes  work to keep it  alive. 

I trust your assessment is accurate, however I refuse to believe it is "too far gone".  Nothing is ever too far gone, there is always hope, but yes, I do understand it is a big uphill climb.  Hopefully Toulouse can return to Super League and then stay there long-term, for starters.  I think the results today, both men's and women's were very encouraging.  Could one of the factors in today's small crowd have been the timing?  The fact it is now off-season in France, could it be that people are just in "summer-mode" and not really following RL like they do during the winter?

I heard the crowd was approx 4k, which is really sad, an event like this surely deserved 10k+

[Damien]

Toulouse really need to get into Super League to have any hope of France improving and getting stronger. The domestic game is just a world away from what's needed and seems to get no stronger.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, barnyia said:

The tv coverage is the best we have, if not its just games on YouTube. A couple of years ago we didn't even have this, people speak of pro rugby league in France! Crowds are disappearing except for the Catalans, playing numbers are dropping, no one is interested on our little regional sport. 

The federation are trying to get life back into the game but it's too far gone, sorry to be negative. but for us in france it's great to have rl on tv(regional internet channel) and a few thousands at the ground. People outside of France really don't understand how much the game is struggling and how hard the small number of passionate treizistes  work to keep it  alive. 

As I've said before, our chat on here where you got me to compare the number of registered rugby league players in France with the number of registered handball players in England was an eye-opening one.

The difficulty about days like today is how many controllable elements that do not depend on vast expenditure were allowed to not work - and this on both the FFRXIII as hosts and on the RFL for how they treat the international set-up.

 

[Pulga]

The worst thing is France is shackled to England who are probably just as hopeless but starting from a bigger base.

[eal]

6 hours ago, gingerjon said:

As I've said before, our chat on here where you got me to compare the number of registered rugby league players in France with the number of registered handball players in England was an eye-opening one.

The difficulty about days like today is how many controllable elements that do not depend on vast expenditure were allowed to not work - and this on both the FFRXIII as hosts and on the RFL for how they treat the international set-up.

 

Handball in England has recently attracted some pretty healthy crowds. Rugby League needs to hire whoever is marketing GB Handball.

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, Damien said:

Toulouse really need to get into Super League to have any hope of France improving and getting stronger. The domestic game is just a world away from what's needed and seems to get no stronger.

So if as it seems we will be staying at a 12 club SL and it looks very strongly like Wakefield will replace London,  so for Toulouse to get into SL they will have to replace one of the incumbents, do you think there would be a preference from the SL community as to which club that would be? In the not to distant past we had many fans expressing their view that Wakefield were a basket case and needed removing from SL but that reasoning has spectacularly turned around in less than half a season to Wakefield must be in SL, so who do you think will be the flavour of the season this time around for the drop, that is of course if Toulouse are wanted in SL.

Edited June 30 by Harry Stottle

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

So if as it seems we will be staying at a 12 club SL and it looks very strongly like Wakefield will replace London,  so for Toulouse to get into SL they will have to replace one of the incumbents, do you think there would be a preference from the SL community as to which club that would be? In the not to distant past we had many fans expressing their view that Wakefield were a basket case and needed removing from SL but that reasoning has spectacularly turned around in less than half a season to Wakefield must be in SL, so who do you think will be the flavour of the season this time around for the drop, that is of course if Toulouse are wanted in SL.

That's a completely different discussion and not for this thread, which is about Rugby League in France 

[LeytherRob]

15 hours ago, Damien said:

Toulouse really need to get into Super League to have any hope of France improving and getting stronger. The domestic game is just a world away from what's needed and seems to get no stronger.

Personally I don’t think France will start to really improve until there are more French players playing within English and NRL systems so the majority of the squad isn’t just pulled from cats and Toulouse. New Zealand/ Samoa/ Tongas rise to be routinely competing and beating Oz is less down to the warriors and more down to having 4/5 quality options at every club in the NRL.

As for how you get to that, I think the only way to get things done in SL is appeal to SL clubs greed. I know it’s been reported they are looking for more exemptions they can add to the cap so I’d look to add one for targeting nations of interest internationally. The tricky part would be balancing it so that Catalans don’t get raided all at once.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Personally I don’t think France will start to really improve until there are more French players playing within English and NRL systems so the majority of the squad isn’t just pulled from cats and Toulouse. New Zealand/ Samoa/ Tongas rise to be routinely competing and beating Oz is less down to the warriors and more down to having 4/5 quality options at every club in the NRL.

As for how you get to that, I think the only way to get things done in SL is appeal to SL clubs greed. I know it’s been reported they are looking for more exemptions they can add to the cap so I’d look to add one for targeting nations of interest internationally. The tricky part would be balancing it so that Catalans don’t get raided all at once.

That's just chicken and egg though. We aren't getting any more French players than we see with just the same teams playing at the same level as we see now. Toulouse aren't playing at Super League level, so their players aren't SL standard players playing at that level, and their recruitment and development of young players isn't at that level. Toulouse being in SL will produce more SL standard SL players than simply relying on English SL clubs to sign them (which can still happen too, as it does now).

Talking about New Zealand, Tonga, Samoa etc is a complete distraction. They have no parallels to France. That is unless you are advocating mass French migration to western Sydney and waiting a couple of generations. Even that is just an Ireland type situation for France. Neither is SL anything like the NRL it isnt capable of attracting the best 'Rugby' talent throughout Europe as the NRL can do in NZ and the rest of Oceania. The NRL is the best Rugby competition on the planet and pays the best wages in Oceania when it comes to Rugby for both young players and elite players. None of this applies to France.

[LeytherRob]

12 minutes ago, Damien said:

That's just chicken and egg though. We aren't getting any more French players than we see with just the same teams playing at the same level as we see now. Toulouse aren't playing at Super League level, so their players aren't SL standard players playing at that level, and their recruitment and development of young players isn't at that level. Toulouse being in SL will produce more SL standard SL players than simply relying on English SL clubs to sign them (which can still happen too, as it does now).

Talking about New Zealand, Tonga, Samoa etc is a complete distraction. They have no parallels to France. That is unless you are advocating mass French migration to western Sydney and waiting a couple of generations. Even that is just an Ireland type situation for France. Neither is SL anything like the NRL it isnt capable of attracting the best 'Rugby' talent throughout Europe as the NRL can do in NZ and the rest of Oceania. The NRL is the best Rugby competition on the planet and pays the best wages in Oceania when it comes to Rugby for both young players and elite players. None of this applies to France.

It’s about getting players into a wider variety of playing environments with different coaches and players they can learn off, just as having English players in NRL environments has helped us. You don’t need mass migration to do that and you don’t need to be targeting the best RU talent, it’s about encouraging clubs to do more than they currently do to try and improve the fortunes of the national side.

Of course a top Toulouse side bringing through French youngsters would be great, but it’s unlikely they are going to be promoted this season and the nature of the IMG points suggests it’s only going to get more difficult in the coming seasons so unless IMG rewrite the rules that isn't likely to be an option.

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

It’s about getting players into a wider variety of playing environments with different coaches and players they can learn off, just as having English players in NRL environments has helped us. You don’t need mass migration to do that and you don’t need to be targeting the best RU talent, it’s about encouraging clubs to do more than they currently do to try and improve the fortunes of the national side.

Of course a top Toulouse side bringing through French youngsters would be great, but it’s unlikely they are going to be promoted this season and the nature of the IMG points suggests it’s only going to get more difficult in the coming seasons so unless IMG rewrite the rules that isn't likely to be an option.

I know what your point is, it's just not really changing anything. Indeed we do that already and SL clubs already take French players, even NRL clubs do on occasion. Sure clubs could take more but its not like French RL has dozens of top quality kids to sign and clubs already sign the talented ones. Those largely don't even kick on to anything exceptional. 

We also only have 11 English SL clubs and limited spots and Id be certain that many French players wouldnt even want to go to England on meagre wages anyway. This approach is limited from the get go and nothing is really changing. Every SL club could take 2 players and maybe 3 will make it to be average SL players. Its real just tinkering around the edges stuff.

While everything essentially stays the same, in that there arent enough French players and clubs and there aren't enough players playing at a full time professional level, then French RL will continue to go backwards. That can only change by increasing the number of French clubs both domestically and in SL. It also needs to change by increasing the money in the French game and having more Catalans level clubs that actually make RL an attractive career option. This then increases pathways to the elite level for young French players, with more French SL clubs to aspire to and spots to aim for. It also grows the game within France.

[barnyia]

Let's see what the score is v the academy. If it's a blow out france are light years away if it's close it's a matter of what to do after the u19s to stay competitive. 

[JM2010]

6 minutes ago, barnyia said:

Let's see what the score is v the academy. If it's a blow out france are light years away if it's close it's a matter of what to do after the u19s to stay competitive. 

If a lot of these academy lads aren’t in the Catalans system then maybe SL clubs should be looking to pick them up, especially if they go well against England Academy 

[PECETTO]

4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

So if as it seems we will be staying at a 12 club SL and it looks very strongly like Wakefield will replace London,  so for Toulouse to get into SL they will have to replace one of the incumbents, do you think there would be a preference from the SL community as to which club that would be? In the not to distant past we had many fans expressing their view that Wakefield were a basket case and needed removing from SL but that reasoning has spectacularly turned around in less than half a season to Wakefield must be in SL, so who do you think will be the flavour of the season this time around for the drop, that is of course if Toulouse are wanted in SL.

Toulouse again Harry… 

[barnyia]

1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

If a lot of these academy lads aren’t in the Catalans system then maybe SL clubs should be looking to pick them up, especially if they go well against England Academy 

There isn't a real Catalan system, it's an under 19s team without contracts but they train 4 times a wek , quite  a few kids want to go to England but don't qualify for a visa, unless the rules change they need a contract or can trial for 4 weeks 

Edited June 30 by barnyia

[barnyia]

Clement Martin has signed for Montpellier union so the England v france 19s game will normally be his last before starting training with Montpellier. 

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, barnyia said:

Clement Martin has signed for Montpellier union so the England v france 19s game will normally be his last before starting training with Montpellier. 

Developing youngsters(as you know) sometimes dashes your hopes.  Let’s hope he sees the light and he turns up one day for training

[Enkidudu]

Even if the game had no full-time pros anywhere it would not be too far gone. Grassroots and amateur clubs would most likely survive. What is clear in France is that top-down efforts alone do not have a big enough impact and arguably Catalans and to a lesser extent Toulouse consume even mediocre players in a similar way as Celtic/Rangers are claimed to do. What needs to be done is for other people but the top-down approach needs to be supplemented by bottom-up approaches. People rattle on about schools but those age groups have the highest dropout route, especially those that decide to work/study in places where RL has little presence. 

[Enkidudu]

21 hours ago, gingerjon said:

As I've said before, our chat on here where you got me to compare the number of registered rugby league players in France with the number of registered handball players in England was an eye-opening one.

The difficulty about days like today is how many controllable elements that do not depend on vast expenditure were allowed to not work - and this on both the FFRXIII as hosts and on the RFL for how they treat the international set-up.

 

The number of registered players can be misleading, exaggerating them can result in greater funding. That is why I think the SportEngland mechanism whilst flawed and fluid is a better indicator since it shows regular commitment to a sport. 

[Harry Stottle]

21 hours ago, Damien said:

That's a completely different discussion and not for this thread, which is about Rugby League in France 

OK, but it is still pretty relevant in that it could very well be a possibility in a few short months, perhaps we shall discuss it then closer to the time.

[Harry Stottle]

19 hours ago, PECETTO said:

Toulouse again Harry… 

Just following on from Damiens suggestion that Toulouse should get in SL if the game in France is to get better, to do that Toulouse will have to replace an incumbent SL club if we are to remain a 12 club SL, anyway I have said leave this for now and discuss early October.

[Worzel]

19 hours ago, barnyia said:

There isn't a real Catalan system, it's an under 19s team without contracts but they train 4 times a wek , quite  a few kids want to go to England but don't qualify for a visa, unless the rules change they need a contract or can trial for 4 weeks 

That's a good point. Another unfortunate consequence of Brexit is that young French talent can't just come to England and fight for their opportunity through other clubs' pathways.