Odd Things in RL.

[corvusxiii]

Been watching and since..   1986 but only occasionally amazed at things I'd not noticed before.

Cats v Salford:

Ball bounces off the crossbar- caught by defender....20m restart.

Loping pass caught by teammate but then tackled in the air....Play on.

Not got my head around the anomalous touch line call yet but how amazing is it that these things catch us out? Such Fun!

 

[Sports Prophet]

I find the players are odd

Edited July 13, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[Hopie]

37 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I find the players are odd

Only if you don't count both teams.

[Sports Prophet]

19 minutes ago, Hopie said:

Only if you don't count both teams.

You are right and I only find the players a little bit odd. I find the on field match officials more odd than the players.

 

Edited July 14, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[Farmduck]

5 hours ago, corvusxiii said:

Been watching and since..   1986 but only occasionally amazed at things I'd not noticed before.

Cats v Salford:

Ball bounces off the crossbar- caught by defender....20m restart.

Loping pass caught by teammate but then tackled in the air....Play on.

Not got my head around the anomalous touch line call yet but how amazing is it that these things catch us out? Such Fun!

 

Ball bounces off crossbar - was it a penalty attempt or a kick in general play? Should be just play on.

Tackled in the air only applies to players fielding kicks.

 

One of the oddest I've seen was in last night's St George v Broncos game. St George challenged a ruling where they were penalised for dragging Broncos player into touch in a tackle. Ref explained that the call of whether he was already held was a discretionary ref decision and couldn't be challenged. The bunker could only review whether the tackled player's head had touched the sideline. In other words, the challenge couldn't possibly win. St George decided to go ahead with the challenge, which failed. Duh!

[The Blues Ox]

Yeah its not until these strange things happen that it springs up a surprise or a rule that most of us have never heard of.

The crossbar was a funny one as it took the ref having someone in his ear to tell him that it should be a 20m restart because the ball was caught in goal.
The kick for touch one and the amount of abuse the TJ and ref are getting on line for the decision is ridiculous. I still can't find within the rules the correct interpretation from a penalty or kick off restart. From the TJ point of view the ball goes over his head and he is stood on the line, of course he is going to put his flag up.

A remember one at Dewsbury a few years back when Fax were playing and it was called the longest drop out ever. Dewsbury dropped out the wind catches the ball and it ends up bouncing over the Fax dead ball line, something that is so rare that the ref got the ruling wrong and gave a drop out instead of a 20m restart.

It happens and with only a split second to make a decision its no surprise. 

[barnyia]

In France you have to push a player into touch, not drag, if you drag it's a penalty, 

[Archie Gordon]

I watched some of the 1990 SoO series yesterday and a penalty kick was taken from wide out but only 5m from the tryline to make the angle really acute.

It seemed to be done so that the kicker could simultaneously attempt the goal but also effectively turn it ino a bomb if he missed which he did). 

[corvusxiii]

1 hour ago, barnyia said:

In France you have to push a player into touch, not drag, if you drag it's a penalty, 

I prefer this version. 

Some years ago now a kick in general play came down vertically and the ball hit the top of a post and then bounced up in the air. Nothing off importance happened but it just looked so odd. Comical, surreal even. 

[Pigeon Lofter]

Referees continually stop play for a knock-on when the ball goes clearly backward from what might best be described as a fumble only. The law says a knock-on must involve the ball being propelled towards the opposition goal line but this seems irrelevant in professional RL in the UK. Either change the definition of a knock-on or enforce it as it stands. 

[sam4731]

I mean the ending to the 2020 GF has got to be a contender for strangest moment. You couldn't set up that same play with a million attempts.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

2 hours ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

Referees continually stop play for a knock-on when the ball goes clearly backward from what might best be described as a fumble only. The law says a knock-on must involve the ball being propelled towards the opposition goal line but this seems irrelevant in professional RL in the UK. Either change the definition of a knock-on or enforce it as it stands. 

I wholly agree with you, PL.  Indeed, you could delete 'of a knock-on' from your last sentence and your comment would be relevant to a number of things - not least of all various aspects of the PTB - but I fear I am going off-topic to get on a hobby horse!

[JohnM]

Interesting point re knock on.

Ball propelled forward with reference to what? For example, if a player moving forward drops the ball  vertically with respect to him, then the ball is following a forward path.

How forward is forward? 

1000 mm? 100 mm? 10 mm? 1 mm?

Who is best placed neutral to make a knock on decision? The ref? A neutral fan in the stands?

 

Edited July 14, 2024 by JohnM

[Pigeon Lofter]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

if a player moving forward drops the ball  vertically with respect to him, then the ball is following a forward path.

According to the RFL, "Knock On means to knock the ball towards the opponent's dead ball line with hand or arm."  So, 1mm forward is a knock on, a vertical drop where the ball doesn't move towards the opposition goal line isn't.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

That duck in the crowd over there is a bit odd! 

Edited July 14, 2024 by The Hallucinating Goose

[JohnM]

44 minutes ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

According to the RFL, "Knock On means to knock the ball towards the opponent's dead ball line with hand or arm."  So, 1mm forward is a knock on, a vertical drop where the ball doesn't move towards the opposition goal line isn't.

So if the player who drops the ball vertically is moving forward, the trajectory of the dropped ball with reference to the ground is moving forward (resolve the vector triangle).

I still see the ref, trained, qualified, experienced and close to the action, as the best judge and it seems to me that there is more to discuss in terms of players performance and skills.

[Pigeon Lofter]

I suppose a vertical dropped ball can be considered knock-on, but many fumbles see the ball travelling backward and continue to do so and the game stops for a scrum when there wasn't anything resembling the RFLs own definition of what a knock-on actually is.

If this is what everyone wants then fine, but put it in the rules. 

[The Phantom Horseman]

A rule that some players forget is that the receiving team can't touch a kick off until it's gone 10m. Fev nearly lost a game a few years ago when Jamie Cording idly touched a ball that had only travelled about 5 yards, thinking it was automatically a penalty to his team. 

[Hopie]

18 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

You are right and I only find the players a little bit odd. I find the on field match officials more odd than the players.

 

They used to be more odd before in goal judges disappeared from Super League.

[The Blues Ox]

On 14/07/2024 at 09:11, barnyia said:

In France you have to push a player into touch, not drag, if you drag it's a penalty, 

I believe the rule is the same in the UK, its just not enforced. Similar if a player on the attackers team adds weight to a tackle the ref should shout held but as we often see with these pushes/drags to touch this is never enforced either.

 

Another odd thing you will see in games is after a kick to touch sometimes a player will get the ball and place it on the sideline before passing the ball to the player who will take the tap. Its a strange one and Ive never understood why players do it.

[barnyia]

Yes, the fact that they don't use the no maul rule annoys me, is there not a rule that if the attackers legs aren't on the floor it's held? Or did i lake that up, if he lifts his legs when being pushed he's held? Which is the correct rule for a touch kick? Cross the line in the air? As it was discussed on tv this weekend, 

Edited July 15, 2024 by barnyia

[johnh1]

An odd one was a couple of years ago. Fev v Batley I think. Batley were winning when the final hooter went. A Batley player went to kick the ball into touch, but only succeeded in kicking the ball towards his own try line. Fev scored and converted from touch to win the game. 

[The Blues Ox]

3 hours ago, johnh1 said:

An odd one was a couple of years ago. Fev v Batley I think. Batley were winning when the final hooter went. A Batley player went to kick the ball into touch, but only succeeded in kicking the ball towards his own try line. Fev scored and converted from touch to win the game. 

Sorry Batley fans.

[unapologetic pedant]

22 hours ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

I suppose a vertical dropped ball can be considered knock-on, but many fumbles see the ball travelling backward and continue to do so and the game stops for a scrum when there wasn't anything resembling the RFLs own definition of what a knock-on actually is.

If this is what everyone wants then fine, but put it in the rules. 

I agree with your main observation, but are you really saying you would be comfortable with a rule change that classed a knock-back as a knock-on?

So that, for instance, a player tapping the ball backward in the contest for a high kick would be guilty of a deliberate knock-on.

[unapologetic pedant]

4 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

I believe the rule is the same in the UK, its just not enforced. Similar if a player on the attackers team adds weight to a tackle the ref should shout held but as we often see with these pushes/drags to touch this is never enforced either.

If officials applied the lending weight rule correctly, there would be less reason to permit surrender/voluntary tackles.