Thur 8th Aug: SL: St Helens v Salford Red Devils KO 20:00 (Sky)

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, redjonn said:

yep, it is... and not just near the touch line, seems to be happening more and more where a player is carried/dragged backwards, although at some stage the players of the player being dragged will join in too... back to square one

Definitely feels like there has been a change in how this is refereed ....

I notice how the players always use arms extended to push....in union you get taught to avoid this, lead with shoulder to bind and leg push

Genuine question - wonder if any league coaches have taught any technique around this seeing as it seems more common....maybe a very rare case of union teaching league something? 

[Padge]

12 minutes ago, dkw said:

That's very open to interpretation,

This bit isn't, it is very clear.

it is permissible for colleagues of the tackled player to lend their weight in order to avoid losing ground. Immediately this happens the referee should call “Held”.

[bobbruce]

7 hours ago, Dave T said:

I must admit to enjoying golden point (although I'd prefer say, a set 5 mins or so). This is sports entertainment, and I think a draw is a bit flat in RL. 

Silver point is perfect for RL. 

[bobbruce]

3 hours ago, Padge said:

This bit isn't, it is very clear.

it is permissible for colleagues of the tackled player to lend their weight in order to avoid losing ground. Immediately this happens the referee should call “Held”.

Even if the ref calls held immediately it could still take a second or two to make that decision then make the call the player could well be in touch before he does. 

[Padge]

25 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Even if the ref calls held immediately it could still take a second or two to make that decision then make the call the player could well be in touch before he does. 

Ref these days has the option to tell the players to go back to the position of play when he called held. Not sure how that works defensively as it is usually applied to stop attackers walking forwards off the mark.

[The Blues Ox]

6 hours ago, Padge said:

Moving tackled player 2. (a) Where opponents do not make a tackle effective in the quickest possible manner but attempt to push, pull or carry the player in possession, it is permissible for colleagues of the tackled player to lend their weight in order to avoid losing ground. Immediately this happens the referee should call “Held”.

That was going to be my next question as I feel this rule has also gone out of the window. You see it loads for goalline drop outs where players are pushed back over their own line with their own team mates adding weight. I think we saw an injury in a game a couple of weeks back due to this and I believe that is one of the reasons the rule was brought in in the first place.

[Josef K]

I haven’t rewatched the match yet and i haven’t done any research but i thought a point each would’ve been a fair result. The Saints discipline is woeful, id drop Batchelor & Knowles for their binning’s. A lot of Saints fans aimed their ire at the ref, yet ignored ripping in to the two silly billys shown the yellow cards, it wasn’t the official giving away the penalties.
Sironen is a great player but his discipline is shocking at times. 
We are a very poor coached side, our kicking game is predictable.

I have heard Blake has just turned round after the kick through by Salford for one of their tries. I don’t believe he is a RL player he has to be a fraud.
The game finished around ten past ten bloody hell !!!!! if they bring in the captains call a match could be finishing closer to 11pm. If that new rule is brought in then they have to scrap the golden point for a league match.

MacDonald & Sneyd are great players to watch, as for us it was great to have Walmsley back, Robertson is going to be a great player (hopefully). I still don’t know why the Saints fans rate Lees so highly. 

[Padge]

1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

That was going to be my next question as I feel this rule has also gone out of the window. You see it loads for goalline drop outs where players are pushed back over their own line with their own team mates adding weight. I think we saw an injury in a game a couple of weeks back due to this and I believe that is one of the reasons the rule was brought in in the first place.

About ten years ago they tried changing it but after players gang tackled and lifted a player and ran him backwards and the momentum was such that a defender lending weight was overrun they saw why the idea was originally brought in.

Many times we change laws without thinking about why it was brought in in the first place, usually results in reverting to the original version.

[Hopie]

15 hours ago, Dave T said:

There are far greater player welfare concerns than not wanting them to play maybe another three minutes or so for maybe one game a year.

I've yet to hear a compelling argument for draws in RL other than people like them because it's what we have always had really.

For me, sport is about winners and losers, nobody ever goes to a sporting event looking to get/hoping for a draw.

 

There wasn't a compelling argument for bringing golden point in.

I've never liked it, extra time first was better for knockout games. I go to games to be entertained, and golden point is often the worst parts of the game, no risk 5 drives and a kick, with occasional terrible drop goal attempts. I think league games should all be the same length and have the same number of points available, if nobody wins the game sharing the points is a fair result. 

12 hours ago, dkw said:

That's very open to interpretation, specifically "do not make a tackle effective in the quickest possible manner ".

But I was more giving my opinion anyway, i dont see why a defender adding weight should stop a player getting taken into touch, or in goal etc.

Because it's the rules? And it discourages players running near the sidelines, if you can be dragged 10m into touch then why would anyone take a risk on the outside. We decided competition for possession and teammates joining in in a tackle was for the other code. Tackles are about stopping the other team going forward, not trying to get the ball back.

[MrIzzard]

13 hours ago, Josef K said:

I haven’t rewatched the match yet and i haven’t done any research but i thought a point each would’ve been a fair result. The Saints discipline is woeful, id drop Batchelor & Knowles for their binning’s. A lot of Saints fans aimed their ire at the ref, yet ignored ripping in to the two silly billys shown the yellow cards, it wasn’t the official giving away the penalties.
Sironen is a great player but his discipline is shocking at times. 
We are a very poor coached side, our kicking game is predictable.

I have heard Blake has just turned round after the kick through by Salford for one of their tries. I don’t believe he is a RL player he has to be a fraud.
The game finished around ten past ten bloody hell !!!!! if they bring in the captains call a match could be finishing closer to 11pm. If that new rule is brought in then they have to scrap the golden point for a league match.

MacDonald & Sneyd are great players to watch, as for us it was great to have Walmsley back, Robertson is going to be a great player (hopefully). I still don’t know why the Saints fans rate Lees so highly. 

Probably because Lees is the best in superleague bar non at dishing out the biff his disaplinery record proves it closely followed by Knowles Wello likes that in his forwards. 

[bobbruce]

1 hour ago, MrIzzard said:

Probably because Lees is the best in superleague bar non at dishing out the biff his disaplinery record proves it closely followed by Knowles Wello likes that in his forwards. 

Considering how many contacts he makes and the way he goes into them Lees disciplinary record isn’t bad. Knowles has gone from controlled aggression of two years ago into trying to prove how tough he is and is in danger of becoming another Bentley. I’m not even sure Batchelor has a disciplinary record it actually wouldn’t do his game any harm to add a bit of aggression. 

[Stanley30]

Best team lost tbh. Salford should have been 3 from 3.

Sts look poorly coached Bd just seem to want to force errors rather than create anything.

Very strange team to watch

[MrIzzard]

6 hours ago, bobbruce said:

Considering how many contacts he makes and the way he goes into them Lees disciplinary record isn’t bad. Knowles has gone from controlled aggression of two years ago into trying to prove how tough he is and is in danger of becoming another Bentley. I’m not even sure Batchelor has a disciplinary record it actually wouldn’t do his game any harm to add a bit of aggression. 

Lees is a liability but if he is now squeaky clean good on him as for Batchelor I agree he has an over inflated ego and needs to prove himself, and just watched the Rhinos v Wigan game I think Mr Bentley conducted himself amicably considering the blatant use of the elbow by the Wigan 7 who will be missing a few games for his craven action. 

[Padge]

16 hours ago, Hopie said:

Because it's the rules? And it discourages players running near the sidelines, if you can be dragged 10m into touch then why would anyone take a risk on the outside. We decided competition for possession and teammates joining in in a tackle was for the other code. Tackles are about stopping the other team going forward, not trying to get the ball back.

Absolutely, RL is a territorial game not a possession game, this differentiates it from union and soccer.

[Segovia Carpet]

Should be 1 pt each in GP games plus a bonus point for the winner.

[phiggins]

I thought Salford should’ve won the game in the 80, but the way Saints went about extra time was pretty impressive. Didn’t go for any Hail Mary attempts at drop goals, and trusted themselves to get into position by going set for set. Salford will regret kicking off to Walmsley’s side. His first carry set the tone. 

[Josef K]

On 08/08/2024 at 21:53, StandOffHalf said:

Young Burns and Robertson are so promising and exciting.

I am sure wellens will knock the skill out of them, as he would prefer a team full of second rowers and props with #honestconversations 

[Josef K]

On 08/08/2024 at 22:08, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

The camera showing Cross at the end there who really should have gone for the corner when given that chance near the end of the 80 minutes. Game over with a decent winger.

Waqa Blake is out of contract at the end of the season they should try and go for him. He’s very entertaining, especially for the opposition fans. 

[johnh1]

On 08/08/2024 at 21:44, Dave T said:

Knowles is a tool isn't he? 

Batchelors is a tool too. Commentators carrying out propaganda for him for some reason. 

2 match ban for Knowles. Fat lot of use that is to Salford.

[phiggins]

2 hours ago, johnh1 said:

2 match ban for Knowles. Fat lot of use that is to Salford.

Incredible that someone losing height because another defender has hold of them is treated as a mitigation in the same way as if a ball carrier slips suddenly. That challenge from Knowles was a red all day long 

[Dave T]

52 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Incredible that someone losing height because another defender has hold of them is treated as a mitigation in the same way as if a ball carrier slips suddenly. That challenge from Knowles was a red all day long 

I don't criticise refs really, but I think they got that completely wrong. It would have been a mitigant had Knowles arm been low and the ball carrier dropped into it. In this instance, Knowles was so high he pretty much missed the player. There was no mitigant imo. 

[johnh1]

The video ref should have seen that. Ludicrous that he got the same on field sanction as Partington who ran in because he was so incensed by the thuggery by Knowles.

[Dave T]

8 hours ago, johnh1 said:

The video ref should have seen that. Ludicrous that he got the same on field sanction as Partington who ran in because he was so incensed by the thuggery by Knowles.

Wasn't that the next incident? 

[The Blues Ox]

There seems to be at least one of these a week at the moment where a video ref will look at an incident and it will result in a yellow card and then subsequently in a ban when the disciplinary look at it. I have no idea how they are getting it wrong so often. In the Saints incident that one was always going to result in a ban.